RabidFerret

You are an art dealer. You are in the business of selling artwork. Your whole purpose is "financial". But please, show me examples then of where you're equating the art you're selling to wonderful but worthless books from the past? To your point, there must be plenty of examples of you doing this, right?

My god, this is like trying to have a conversation with Trump... I'm very sorry if this is going over your head. Maybe I can simplify it even more for you: You are equating a financially successful item from 30 years in the past with a brand new item you are attempting to sell.

I don't believe anyone is suggesting that you're pushing comic art as some can't miss investment that people should be speculating into. Not at all. But to put it a different way, if a stock broker stands on a soapbox talking about how great it was to invest in Walmart in 1980 or Apple in 2001, and then immediately follows that up with a "great deal on a brand new stock that will be the next Apple", it is seen as an attempt to create an association.

I hope you understand that this comment applies to you as well? You may 'want to believe' that you're not advocating speculation, that your actions are altruistic and your intentions honorable, but it's still possible that your actions paint a different picture you are not seeing or understanding. I believe the compelling evidence of the day was provided by Kyle, with valid examples given of times art sales were pushed in a speculative fashion.

I've never heard you push it as an investment and I wasn't trying to suggest you did. I was simply mentioning the level of raised awareness that comes from high priced art being brought up consistently in discussions, and the likely effect that has on people new to the hobby. My point was that most art circulates early on, even when it was not bought for speculation, simply due to life's unexpected twists - a change of interest, a better acquisition, financial problems, etc. The art that vanishes and never changes hands seems to be defying the norm. I don't invest in art, so I can't say what the right pages are. But on a simple level, Collecting 101, the parts are worth more than the whole. I'm not aware of any book that was worth more complete than it was in pieces.

I wasn't talking any specific book, just an investing mindset in general. There are plenty of complete books that could be had for a fraction of that. And I'd think it would depend a great deal on how much money you have and how much confidence you have in the book.

I want to play devil's advocate a little here... First and foremost, you're a huge DKR fan, which means your podcasts often reference that series and have guests that talk about it quite often. You do a good job of saying "only buy what you love and don't invest", but at the same time, a common thread is about a book where every page is 5-6 figures these days. Some people just see dollar signs no matter how much you push buying for love. Second, if the art isn't being flipped at all, that may actually support the notion that people are in it for speculation. Most artists and books that come onto the market sell the same way - the best pages are picked through, the weak ones linger. Inevitably a percentage of things that sold early on resurface months later when people realize they overspent, didn't like what they bought, find a better example, etc. We've talked a lot about White Knight on these boards, and while the art is not selling out, we've already seen pieces relisted for sale on eBay and dealer sites. Yet if most of the art you sell isn't resurfacing, even in small doses, it makes me curious. There are plenty of investors who buy art, put the date they bought it on it, and throw it into a bin and don't look at it until 10 years have passed. They intentionally buffer how soon they let it return to the market. And if that's a buyer's mindset, it seems like buying complete issues is the most cost effective investment vehicle since you don't need to worry about whether you picked the right pages to invest in.

This is the kind of news that scares me a bit. This sounds like textbook speculation to me. The mindset of acquiring something they don't read, don't know the characters, are not invested in on a personal level, but still buy. It's always impressive how quickly you sell out of art, but it raises a concern in my mind about the motives behind such speed. It has a beanie baby vibe to it when art sells out as fast as it's listed. Gotta get it before someone else does. Don't wanna miss out on the potential payday. Speculation is clearly in the DNA of comics.

I've been collecting original comic art for almost 20 years. Somehow, miraculously unexpected, 2017 turned into my single best year of collecting. This was thanks to a trading partner with a love for Liefeld which allowed me to knock off some of my biggest wantlist items - the stuff I figured I'd be chasing for the next 20 years. In the end, I traded 9 Liefelds and acquired these 5 pieces in return. Presented in the order they were acquired. 1) Arthur Adams ~ Fantastic Four #347, Page 24(December 1991) http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=9256 I loved the 3 issue "new" Fantastic Four run Art Adams drew and Walt Simonson wrote in the early 90s. It replaced the FF with Spidey, Wolverine, the Hulk, and Ghost Rider. It was my favorite story of Arthur's, a rare arc for him within a continuous series, and was a complete blast to read! This is my single favorite and most remembered page from the story, an insanely epic 6-panel page that somehow seems to cram in a half splash of Spidey and another of the Hulk. The Hulk is so big he didn't even fit on the printed page! It was an absolute dream to get this piece and I honestly never woulda thought it was possible. Many thanks to Mark and whatever medications he mixed with his alcohol that day. 2) Jim Lee/Scott Williams ~ Uncanny X-Men #271, Page 23(December 1990) http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=9259 A Lee/Williams UXM page has been at the top of my list for years now, but the run is never as long as we think and I'm picky and wanted the right piece. Ideally Wolverine, in costume, claws out, Williams inks were a must, and I wanted art from their later work when things were really humming. I ranked every page in the run and then moved down them until one wiggled loose. This ranked #5 for me, one of my favorite pages and one I'm still in awe of to this day! I love Xtinction Agenda, easily my favorite crossover of the era, and this page was from one of the best scenes in it, with Wolverine and Psylocke unleashing on Hodge. I love how much energy is in the lines and inkstrokes in that first panel, and that last panel with Psylocke isn't bad either! I stare at that Psylocke hair and am in awe!! Scott's precision is amazing to behold. 3) Barry Windsor-Smith ~ Marvel Comics Presents #72: Weapon X, Chapter 1, Page 3(1990) http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=9258 I've always loved Barry's art but wasn't sure I'd ever chase a page. They were often expensive and never seemed to have the perfect BWS linework I was looking for in his work. I wanted a Thing FF page the most, but when I approached his studio about getting a piece of art I had to at least ask about this page, an early one that always stuck with me, possibly more than any other page in the series. It's a very civilized page, with Logan using a gun, dressed in clothes, a part of society. There's a lot of time and thought put into this page's layout, how the eye is led, where the shadows fall, how the wires line up. I think BWS's best work on this series was early, before deadlines crept in, and it's in full force here. And this was fully inked by BWS too, something a few other pages I'd looked at didn't boast, as well as being triple signed with two BWSs and one signature! I half suspect this page is a secret treasure map too. Oh, and he made Logan British. 4) Robert Crumb(Written by Harvey Pekar) ~ American Splendor #3, 'Standing Behind Old Jewish Ladies In Supermarket Lines, Page 3(1978) http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=9257 I worked on the movie American Splendor and did the Crumb drawings that were used as props. Pretty fun moment in my life that I remember fondly. Not only did I always love Crumb's work, but after that experience I felt connected to him in a strange way and needed a Crumb Splendor page in my collection. This is from my single favorite story, featured heavily in the film. It was only five pages long, so finding a page is like finding a pebble in the ocean. It's also quite unique compared to most comic art, drawn on a spiral bound pad of paper with enormous margins and a nicely lettered title at the top. 5) Drew Struzan ~ Indiana Jones and The Secret of the Sphinx(March 1997) http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=9260 OK, this one is still absurd to me. The climax to my year was an epic pickup that instantly became one of coolest pieces in my collection - a finished painting of Indiana Jones by the great Drew Struzan!! Drew was always one of my favorite artists on the planet, and one I'd sought out often since I entered collecting, always keeping my eyes out and hoping for a scrap. But he was always far out of reach, his art expensive and the iconic movie posters picked through by some dude named George. But that all changed this year when I got the chance to pick out one of the 12 covers he did for the Indiana Jones novels from the 90s. This beauty is on a full sized 30"x40" board, painted in 1996, the peak of his powers when he was doing things like the Star Wars Trilogy triptych, Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone, and Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace...some gorgeous pieces of art!! The piece is a wraparound cover with a huge Indy face, inset panels of Sallah and Brody, a gesso sunset reminiscent of Raiders, and even the gorgeous warm color palette I loved so much in his work. As a huge Drew fan this is a truly shocking piece to have hanging above my bed, and one I look at and oogle nightly! HONORABLE MENTION: Seth Fisher ~ The Flash: Time Flies, Page 27 http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1431050 In my mind this piece was a dead heat for #5 on my year, a gorgeous splash by Seth Fisher from The Flash: Time Flies. My single favorite page from the entire book, an amazing choice of artistic perspective that I've always been blown away by. The pause, the momentum, the layout, the depth..it is unlike anything else I've ever seen in comics. I love Seth's work and this piece impresses and inspires me to no end.

Anyone have any Iron Man covers or panel pages from Mark Bright, somewhere around Iron Man 200-230 range? If so, ping me:)

I think it’s too early to say. On paper it sounds like a good approach dollarwise, but I suspect there are hidden longterm costs. What happens when your whole market is tied to these few deep pockets and they change their interest and stop buying? You may be pricing art for a market that isn’t there. And if the handful of buyers unload you risk crashing your whole market since there’s no support underneath it. And what about the fans that supported you on lesser books and now feel slapped in the face? Will they come back for the next book or have you alienated them? That last point is true for me right now. I still love the art and will buy the comics, but I think I’m done with buying his art. For the prices he’s asking I’d rather get 20 year old art from more established books and artists.

I think this piece is priced similar to the rest of the WK work SGM is selling on his site now, but it is issue 1 and one of the few actual Batman pages in what is more a Joker book. I *think* this is one that sold at the secret auction, so it would be interesting to hear what it originally sold for. But to the question of buying in, I've watched the site over the last month and none of it is moving. It seems like a handful of deep pockets are buying a bunch of the best pages on day one and nobody else is. Seems a very small market being propped up by a handful of folks.

I'm not one to go crazy on frames very often, so apologies for my long-winded post as this was a lot of fun for me:) OK, so I recently got a painting by the great Drew Struzan(http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1424383) and needed to frame it. The board itself is 30"x40", with a smaller image area of 23"x17". Since I wasn't about to cut the board, this meant wide margins and mattes. I started with Optium Museum Acrylic instead of glass after some helpful comments on these boards, deciding the safety and weight were worth the added expense. From there I tried to match the color scheme with some of the interior colors, as well as find materials that fit the feel of 1930s Indiana Jones and Struzan's own textured style. The outer frame I decided on is a nice dense brown wood with some rope-like thing and some great ripped texture in the middle. I spent a lot of time on the mattes, wanting to make sure it fit the color scheme and didn't distract from the art. I eventually opted for an outer matte with a sand color and a fabric texture, combined with a reverse bezel, meaning you didn't see a white edge, and instead transitioned directly to a darker tan. The darker tan was a black core matte, giving that nice black edge on the inner bezel. The only white you'll see is coming from the art itself and not the framing, which I think helps pull you into it. The toughest part was deciding where to crop the matte. The exposed edges are wonderful to see, but uneven. In the end I went with leaving about a 3/4" border around the edge, enough to see the edges but not so wide that it distracted from the piece. The hat was also tricky. The published version crops it, but since Drew painted the whole thing it seemed foolish to hide it! So I pushed for a curved edge with the outer matte following it like a ripple. Finally, there's a fillet around the outer edge, giving off a subtle hint of bronze. Overall, an incredibly fun experience with lots of back and forth and trips to the frame shop. I'm thrilled with how it came out!

An exciting arrival, one of my favorite pieces ever by Seth Fisher! The Flash: Time Flies, pg 27 by Seth Fisher (July 2002) http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1431050 The graphic novel was about The Flash chasing a dude in his overalls into the future. The art was epic. This is page 27, a splash of The Flash. Great architecture. Solid dialogue, too. This splash always stuck with me. I find it mesmerizing. One of my favorite pieces from Seth's entire career. Seth's version of The Flash doesn't use speed lines or blurs. Instead he walks casually, the world frozen in time around him. The world's fastest powerwalker. I love this page!!

I've long thought the same thing about Bill Watterson, Jeff Smith, and the Billy Ireland Cartoon Library and Museum. When all the art is in one place it's certainly a risk. It reminds me of those classic 70s Marvel warehouse photos. In fact, that fear of egg-basket storage was part of why I finally sold some of my originals, just in case something happened.

I find the whole thing fascinating Both Capullo and Murphy have taken the approach of putting almost future prices on the art - where they think/hope it will be down the road, as opposed to what it will sell for openly today. Court of Owls was a very successful series, but you can have your choice of Batpages from Capullo or Glapion right now. They're not selling fast. Much different from the typical dealer who pushes to unload as much of the art as possible at low prices and let the market develop naturally over time. This approach likely means the normal fans can't afford the art, but it's also forcing people to pay a high premium that does not allow them to flip the art or view it as a quick investment the same way as cheaper pages may be. I would imagine in most cases these pages would not get back their purchase price if sold at auction, probably for years. Markets generally seem to move when the supply has run out, not when there's a selection to pick from. I could see us talking years from now about how this art hasn't moved an inch since it came out. Very different from say, Hush(for those who remember when that sold originally), where pages were priced more in the $1-2k range but sold relatively quickly. As we've seen the Hush market has grown substantially since then, I'm sure in large part to the work being in the hands of a large number of fans and not consolidated with a handful of deep pockets only. From what's been said, it sounds like Machismo bought 4 of the 12 pages that were sold. As he's said, it's based on one issue and some degree of optimism that the overall story comes together, which raises the question of what happens if the series doesn't follow through, or if the big fish in a small market gets out. But, all that said, I imagine in the long run this probably works out best for the artists, who maximize their returns and set a high floor to start with, but with a tradeoff that not a lot sells now. It likely alienates some of their fans with modest pocketbooks, but maybe that pushes them towards the lower priced non-Batart they can afford? So again, I find it all fascinating, and far more encouraging on the artist side that Capullo and Murphy likely won't end up as artists who lament selling all their epic art 30 years ago for pennies.

Actually, I missed Mr. Machismo's post above where he already has 2 of those final 4 that were listed today.

I was watching as they posted them, refreshing every second or two. It started with a few prelims that were available and had prices(which sold quickly), but then seemed to move to pieces that sold at NYCC. Then the handful of lesser pages that are still unsold now. The final 4 pages posted were the good Batman/Joker pages people would want, and seemingly at fair prices, but it seemed like they all appeared as sold. Can anyone that was at the NYCC Secret Auction confirm if any of these pages were sold then? Also, the prices dropped from what they were listed at at NYCC. Page 18 dropped from $2700 -> $2200 Page 22 dropped from $2400 ->$2200 Freeze Splash from $8000 ->$6000 Seems like they were fishing for the market a bit.

My bad on the Joker piece! Apologies. It is a gorgeous piece, as is the Freeze. I'm certainly not knocking the art, which I also love:) It will be interesting to see how quickly the art moves once the larger public gets access to it and the rest of the series continues to roll out. Hopefully the series finishes strong Congrats again on the Freeze!

Yes, that was the page I meant...but to be honest now I'm not sure where I heard/read the $8k price. Twitter? Or maybe I'm mistaken and was confusing it with the Mr Freeze splash priced at $8k.

I didn't say they were on par. I said the floor for WK is higher. Here are 3 low end Hush pages that sold in the last year on Heritage, all for less than a $2400 Gordon page from WK: $1673 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-batman-609-hush-story-page-20-original-art-dc-2003-/a/7137-93529.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 $2091 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-batman-609-hush-story-page-19-original-art-dc-2003-/a/7137-93528.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 $1015 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-610-hush-chapter-3-story-page-8-original-art-dc-2003-/a/121613-14049.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 In addition, I thought I read the WK Joker in the library splash sold for $8k, and have seen photos of the Mr. Freeze splash priced at $8k. Here's what sold in that range from Hush: $9560 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-615-hush-chapter-8-the-dead-story-page-19-nightwing-original-art-dc-2003-/a/7166-92021.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 $8365 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-612-hush-chapter-5-the-battle-page-13-superman-original-art-dc-2005-/a/7124-92157.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 $9261 - https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jim-lee-and-scott-williams-batman-612-hush-chapter-5-the-battle-page-12-original-art-dc-2005-/a/7124-92156.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 I'm sorry, but an out of costume Joker in a dark library or a Mr. Freeze splash is not at the same level as Lee/Williams Hush of Batman and Superman battling it out. On the highest end pieces I don't doubt that, but from what we've seen so far WK is incredibly pricey for it's first month of release.

Oh sure, of course Batman deserves a premium - but what is that 'Batman premium'? A markup of 4-5x seems high but understandable given the character. But per my Gordon example and the other pricing we've seen, this seems closer to 8-10x+. For perspective, the floor for White Knight seems to be higher than the floor for Jim Lee Hush pages that are 15 years old. That seems a bit presumptuous.

As a fan of Sean's work who reached out multiple times to the art sales team about getting pages I had zero idea there was a 'secret auction'. Instead I kept being told 'we want to be fair to everyone, we don't want to presell or reserve any pages, we want everyone to have a shot'...but apparently not. And that's not even touching on the pricing, where it's $2-3k for a Commissioner Gordon panel page? Ouch! The last two books SGM did were in the $500-700/page for the central characters. A DPS would be in the $2-3k range. A Gordon-like page would likely be $300-400. So this is a huge markup where it feels like they believed their own hype too much. The first issue was decent, but it's certainly no groundbreaking Dark Knight or Year One. Sure, I want the artist to maximize the money they get, but this felt like a weird and alienating approach...

There's a longer post in the Movie Art Day thread, but gosh darn-it, I can't help posting this all over the place! It's the coolest art day ever Drew Struzan Indiana Jones!! http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1424383

Howdy gang! This thread has really tickled my fancy over the last year. I've always been a fan of movie posters but had never taken the leap into them(and to be fair, I still haven't). But it really put a fire under me about the one artist I grew up loving who I still hadn't found a nice piece by, the great Drew Struzan. As an 80s kid Drew was an icon, from Indy and BTTF and Goonies, to movies I didn't realize until years later like Police Academy, Batteries Not Included, An American Tail, First Blood, DC Cab...the list goes on and on. It was impressive. I needed to remedy this gap on my wall. The best movie posters are all long gone and cost a fortune, so for sanity's sake I decided to stay in shallower waters...book covers. In addition to the ~200 movie posters he did, Struzan also did 40 covers for Star Wars novels and another 12 for Indiana Jones novels, most of which involved wraparound covers. The majority were painted on the same size board as the movie posters, 30"x40", the difference being the books didn't utilize all the space. I started looking in these areas more. Turns out some dude named George picked up a bunch of the best Star Wars ones, but for some reason ignored the Indy ones. All 12 were still around, so I had my pick. There were some solid pieces in the mix, but one won me over completely. It was for 'Indiana Jones and the Secret of the Sphinx'. It felt like a poster for a movie I had somehow missed at the theater. A huge Indy and fedora, that concerned look on his face, inset panels of Sallah and Brody, plot clues in a staff and the sphinx, and even the Raiders digging scene on the back side! With the Temple of Doom and Last Crusade posters forever locked in Lucasland, I could never imagine finding a Struzan Indy piece this cool! So while not technically a movie poster, this seemed the thread to post it in. So with all that ado, my first Drew! I'm pretty excited:) http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1424383