Silverdream

I've been tempted to buy one but ive been warded off by the higher price. Starting to think I should with these prices. The one I am looking at is around VF but it signed by Jerry Siegel and Alan Moore. Good luck getting those on this book huh? Moore wont do it, for anyone, ever. Siegel died in 1994. I want to get it signed by Miller. How awesome would that be? Ugh guess I gotta open my wallet.

I think chuck has slowly gone insane- and angered, by the massive increase in value of comics as a whole. Think about what the man has owned, held in his hand, and what he has to show for it. While he isn't broke, I'm sure he looks back all the time regretting selling EVERYTHING for NOTHING, basically. Sure he got great prices then, but nothing like what we are seeing these days. Im sure he was freaking excited selling you DD # 7 for $10, at the time, and on and on. Your story just makes this point stronger. It doesn't excuse the insanity, but I think this is a major reason to why he is doing this now. Desperation to not mess up again.

Ive been away for quite some time, so my apologies.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more. I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong. With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed. -J. Your math is off buddy . Care to explain how? -J. Because you didn't do exact math and get 460. I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers. Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time. -J. This is why I said its curious wantedcomix had so many copies. Ive counted using sold sales from their feedback and im at 28 separate copies of JIM 633 venom variant. There is no way they ordered 1,400 copies of the regular issue to qualify for all of these. Thor # 10 as well, im at 35 separate copies of that venom variant that they have sold in the past 3 years. They somehow got a hold of the undistributed, non-qualified for, venom variants back 3 years ago. Probably from Diamond. That's the fallacy with these LOW print run " guesses" So you are at 460 copies based on diamond orders of the regular issue, and stress that obviously not all shops qualified to get this issue. So its even lower? Sorry that's not how it works. They don't wait until diamond gets its orders from the stores and then go back and print and second batch of these books with the variant cover based on those orders. It would be severely cost inefficient to do so. They print them all at the same time. They would typically use previous sales numbers to get a base number to print for the variant like the 460 you came up with, knowing that not all retailers would qualify. Round numbers make sense. It would make much more sense that they printed 500 copies, not worrying about how many retailers qualified, just being happy that they made enough to cover that offer. Remember that artists usually get a few copies of the covers they do, some books are given away in house as well. What happens to the balance that isn't distributed? They are surely are not used as firewood. It would be easier for diamond to just sell them a few months or a year later at cover price or lower, which is probably how WantedComix managed to get so many. So for Journey into Mystery # 633 1:50 variant. We have to assume a scenario like this. 500 printed. A reasonable guess of about 300 copies distributed to stores that qualified for the variant. 50 copies going to artists and In house. 150 copies leftover, which are later distributed by diamond, probably offered to their largest account holders first at low prices. Even on the outside of both extremes, our estimated numbers are not very far apart. In fact, we are probably quibbling over a less than 100 copies difference. Either way, the JIM 633 Venom is easily going to be the scarcest Venom variant of the group given the title's sales figures, regardless of which single comic shop managed to get their hands on whatever scant copies were leftover. -J. I agree with you. Its not far apart. What has always concerned me however, is a book exploding to 2-3k because only a small amount were distributed via the 1: programs. Then collectors losing their tails off when another few hundred copies come into the market in a small period of time, by someone who managed to get a ton of the undistributed copies. This will hurt the hobby. People will be angry and quit, and that hurts us all. I wish they ( marvel and DC and others) would see what's happening in the market with these variants and try to legitimize these variants more. I.E. Stating a true print run, possibly pulping the non- qualifying books. Its not their responsibility , but it would help everyone IMO.

Hey, I bought one of those! Came in great shape, too. Wonder what is the rarest of the versions of this book, 1st 2nd 3rd print or newsstand? What I find strangest of all, is the fact this book got hot out of nowhere, for some unknown reason, and then the man passes away out of nowhere not a month later.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more. I notice wantedcomix has auctioned off a few of the JIM 633 Venom as well. They seem to be the only one that has auctioned any off. The last one, they said was in raw 7.0 condition and it still went strong. With only a ~23,000 copies of the regular cover distributed and it being a 1:50, it's hard to fathom any scenario where very many more than ~400 copies of the variant being distributed, let alone printed. -J. Your math is off buddy . Care to explain how? -J. Because you didn't do exact math and get 460. I hope that's a joke. Either that or that people didn't know what I meant with a "~" in front of the numbers. Also, 460 would assume all shops' orders were in quantities of 50+ to qualify- an unlikely scenario, and particularly since JIM was a title on its last legs at the time. -J. This is why I said its curious wantedcomix had so many copies. Ive counted using sold sales from their feedback and im at 28 separate copies of JIM 633 venom variant. There is no way they ordered 1,400 copies of the regular issue to qualify for all of these. Thor # 10 as well, im at 35 separate copies of that venom variant that they have sold in the past 3 years. They somehow got a hold of the undistributed, non-qualified for, venom variants back 3 years ago. Probably from Diamond. That's the fallacy with these LOW print run " guesses" So you are at 460 copies based on diamond orders of the regular issue, and stress that obviously not all shops qualified to get this issue. So its even lower? Sorry that's not how it works. They don't wait until diamond gets its orders from the stores and then go back and print and second batch of these books with the variant cover based on those orders. It would be severely cost inefficient to do so. They print them all at the same time. They would typically use previous sales numbers to get a base number to print for the variant like the 460 you came up with, knowing that not all retailers would qualify. Round numbers make sense. It would make much more sense that they printed 500 copies, not worrying about how many retailers qualified, just being happy that they made enough to cover that offer. Remember that artists usually get a few copies of the covers they do, some books are given away in house as well. What happens to the balance that isn't distributed? They are surely are not used as firewood. It would be easier for diamond to just sell them a few months or a year later at cover price or lower, which is probably how WantedComix managed to get so many. So for Journey into Mystery # 633 1:50 variant. We have to assume a scenario like this. 500 printed. A reasonable guess of about 300 copies distributed to stores that qualified for the variant. 50 copies going to artists and In house. 150 copies leftover, which are later distributed by diamond, probably offered to their largest account holders first at low prices.

yeah, these books just keep going up. Interesting side note. Wantedcomix seems to have a near endless supply of these venom variants I remember them selling the venom variants grouped with a TPB in 2013, 2014 and 2015 , they were ending in the $5 - 30 range. over and over again. They are prolly kicking themselves now. They have sold Dozens and Dozens of each individual book. It seems to me they must have somehow acquired some, or all, of the remaining undistributed copies. Go look at their feedback, if you feel like digging and adding them up. This is what always scares me about these modern 1: variants. The print run numbers are complete guesses based on ratios and there is no guarantee how many were actually printed, and where the undistributed copies end up. Here is an old sale from page #200 of their feedback: More than a year ago JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #633 1:50 VENOM VARIANT COVER SCARCE & FREE THOR HERUCLES 1 (#400550069813) US $22.50 22 bucks and a free TPB They have sold dozens of this book, and it seems they still have more.

Production error. Yes, and production errors get a GLOD now. Or didn't you know that? This just infuriates me. Every single error book I turn in comes back GLOD. Every time I question why, its either " We decided a few years ago after the Venom black errors that ALL manufacturing errors would get a green label" Question a recently graded error book like this and you will get " It was a mistake, and SHOULD have been a green label" SMH yeah, ok.

Where?!? He bought it on Ebay. 4.99 + 4.00 shipping. Had it on my watch list, but forgot to bid, other wise I would have made him pay at least $15 for it, or owned it myself. Summertime is great for deals, people got stuff going on! The real question you need to ask, is which venue he is going to resell it at.

Stuff like this takes time. If enough people get interested in these upc variants, they will be separated eventually. Its a question of if it will stick. These types of sets along with the multiple printing sets of Death of superman, knightfall and so on, are the copper/modern age "cent" variants basically.

There's a shop in Whitehorse in the Yukon Territory that keeps its comics in the basement... they could be in trouble. Last time I was there, though, it was all drek. Batman Adventures #12 was drek 7 years ago, too... Yup. Even 4 years ago when I was buying them for a few bucks and selling them for $20 .. I was laughing thinking ... suckers! Who knew. Glad I kept a few at least.

Obvious scam. -J. I own roughly 2,000 books with MJ inserts. Every single one has a newsstand barcode. I have seen thousands more MJ insert books and all have barcodes. It doesn't hurt to live near the largest US military base. Probably a scam, however, lets all remember errors do happen at the printers. Double Covers, missing foil ,books upside down, backwards, same pages inserted throughout the book, wrong covers ... on and on. Its defiantly possible that one got slipped in at the switch over between the direct and newsstand barcode plate change. The only way to tell for sure would to be a magnified examination of the staples.

(thumbs u Never in my wildest dreams would I have expected SS44 to pull $50 in raw VF-NM. I always knew it was the first actual appearance of the gauntlet with gems, but I never thought anyone would care enough. I am constantly amazed with this market. That's a good thing I think

Sounds like a great list. I can never find the website though. This is a valid complaint. I found a comic shop on Saturday that was - to be blunt - clueless about the marketplace. I wanted to find Terry's site because there were piles of stuff everywhere. I could NOT GET IN to the site on a phone or a tablet. But I did OK anyways. I just take notes on my phone everytime I see a comic trending. I have one list for every comic age.. I can sell you my lists if you want You guys just need to be an oldschool dork like me and carry around a paper list in your wallet . Whenever I walk into a new comic shop, where I'm not known, I get looked at like I probably don't collect comics and know jack about them. Bust out the list and suddenly an employee usually asks if there's any specific books I'm after. Plus, watching my TOS checklist come to nearly nothing is a very rewarding feeling......only need #52 and a couple other relatively unimportant issues (then it'll be time to revise the heck out of my list). Or, you could just have an eidetic memory and keep it all in your head... Sounds more like Savant Syndrome Should we add you to THE LIST ? It's funny tho, I have never brought a list to a store or convention when longbox searching. I tend to remember the multitude of variants out there and hot titles and find stuff only on memory. I just call it a " good memory" SMH

Some people seem to care: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fugitoid-1-TMNT-1st-Print-CGC-9-6-WP-/381042832273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58b7ec3391 Not really 20 bucks I was hoping I didn't have to get into a conversation about how the world works. Many people are lazy and never send comics to cgc, but only buy cgc books. There are 56 graded Fugitoid # 1's on the census ( because there is nearly zero demand to justify grading them ) , whoever bought that book did so as it was their only option, didn't want to wait, and didn't care about their money enough to do so. The fact is, anyone who wants a cgc 9.6 can buy a raw NM and sent it in for a total cost of less than $50 including grading. They just have to know what they are looking for. There are plenty out there, but , generally, nobody cares.

I really don't understand why people are comparing a Preview newspaper like DC Spotlight with Gobbledygook 1, which is an actual comic book with actual stories and art inside by Eastman and Laird. The fact that TMNT fans have grabbed onto Gobbledygook 1 due to its full-page ad has no impact on its viability as a real live comic book with stories and art. No debating that its a comic book with art and stories The debate is why anyone cares about it. The comparison is the ad/preview driving the demand, that's what the two books have in common. For me, the only reason people care about gobbledygook 1 is that TMNT ad. It has had a stigma of the being the first appearance ( it was called this in every single price guide for quite some time ) until the last decade or so. Its been counterfeited because of its value, and its low print run. People want it, because its been in the spotlight for decades for all those reasons. If you increase the print run to 1,000+ copies its still a $100+ book ,if not more ,because of that ad. Increase the print run to 1,000+ copies, but remove the ad, it becoms a comic ( no argument there ) that no one cares about. Sort of like Fugitoid # 1 Nobody cares, even though its an extremely early Eastman & laird book. Why? No turtles, and no scarcity = $1 bin fodder. The Turtles are in Fugitoid, so is R2D2! The problem is that people just don't know it. Better get back to that dollar bin I have never read the book, Is that a manifestation ( some kind of light show) from fugitoid or did they actually appear? Still, the fact is, nobody cares, and its Eastman and lairds 7th published book ( printed between tmnt 4 and 5 ).

So you're in the Eternal Warrior #5 crowd then, for Bloodshot? Solar #11 for EW? No and No. What do you consider the 1st appearance of Gamora? ST 180 is a cameo, ST181 is her 1st full appearance. She wasn't on a cover until Warlock 15 I don't even know who Gamora is . . . (and I bought that lame title off the rack)

I really don't understand why people are comparing a Preview newspaper like DC Spotlight with Gobbledygook 1, which is an actual comic book with actual stories and art inside by Eastman and Laird. The fact that TMNT fans have grabbed onto Gobbledygook 1 due to its full-page ad has no impact on its viability as a real live comic book with stories and art. No debating that its a comic book with art and stories The debate is why anyone cares about it. The comparison is the ad/preview driving the demand, that's what the two books have in common. For me, the only reason people care about gobbledygook 1 is that TMNT ad. It has had a stigma of the being the first appearance ( it was called this in every single price guide for quite some time ) until the last decade or so. Its been counterfeited because of its value, and its low print run. People want it, because its been in the spotlight for decades for all those reasons. If you increase the print run to 1,000+ copies its still a $100+ book ,if not more ,because of that ad. Increase the print run to 1,000+ copies, but remove the ad, it becoms a comic ( no argument there ) that no one cares about. Sort of like Fugitoid # 1 Nobody cares, even though its an extremely early Eastman & laird book. Why? No turtles, and no scarcity = $1 bin fodder.

No. Previews are not comics and that's about all that needs to be said. That wasn't my point at all. Context brother, context. Can't wait for Vince to respond to this point alone, never mind the rest . . . Why bother, as he's splitting gnat sheit from pepper when he says, it's "the first depiction" and then gets all butthurt when no one agrees with him, stating later that "it's different than a first appearance". He's like those sportscard guys in the 80's who would parade around pictures of some athlete in Sports Illustrated that pre-dated the rookie card, and then spouting how much it should be worth, blah, blah, blah. I remember someone doing that with Bo Jackson, who was a well-known and well-publicized athlete well before he was drafted (Wayne Gretzky was a news item since he was a kid), screaming about how "Bo was in SI long before he got a sportscard/this should be worth more than his RC, etc." without understanding why no one else cared. If you only collect COMICS or CARDS, who cares about a prior depiction in a magazine or preview newspaper. I know I don't, as they are totally different things. You obviously didn't even read what I posted fully. If you did, you would realize I am more on your side of the fence about all of this. If you want to treat me like Ween who posts previews all over the place, that's fine. You are just being stubborn and lumping me were I don't belong. I have had numerous conversations about previews/ads on these boards, and have never considered them first appearances. I did not go back and change my stance. I called it the "first depiction", because it has to be called something, people are actively buying these things, and that's what they are looking for " first time in print or whatever" Stop making it look like I'm the leader of this movement, when all I was doing was making a comment. I actually said I find it hard to get on board ( aka accept ) this niche market. Guess you didn't read that far. Go ahead, check my post history, you will see I'm more against previews/ads market than for it. Here is one for you, from 2 months ago: 1st spawn ad You are being an , just to be an . I suppose I should expect nothing less from you.

They are both first printings. Vince Locke wanted to do more graphic covers on his Deadworld series. After issues 2 and 3, which had extremely graphic covers, retailers requested less graphic covers because it was scaring their customers ( ) I guess its a turnoff when you walk into the comic store with your kids and see guts hanging out of a dead guy, and a severed head in that dead guys hand, on a comic cover, So Arrow started offering a " tame" cover and a " Gore" cover to appease everyone. Vince Locke is a very talented penciler. I always find myself looking at his pages longer than most artists, there is so much detail.

No. Previews are not comics and that's about all that needs to be said. That wasn't my point at all. Context brother, context. Can't wait for Vince to respond to this point alone, never mind the rest . . . Call me a glutton for punishment

I understand what you are saying, but the print run, honestly, means nothing. If they printed the same amount of gobbledygook # 1 as that DC spotlight, it would still be sought after and valuable. Id guess $50- $100 pretty steady if not much more. And if you don't believe that, Deadworld # 10 with a Crow ad on the back cover ( exact same situation as gobbledygook # 1 ) is pulling these kind of numbers, and the Crow is nowhere near as popular as TMNT. Deadworld 10 Ebay It's alright if you want to call a certain book " different" or an " exception" . I still call it hypocritical, and I don't use that word with any anger or hatred, just for what it means. You can't have it both ways. Well, you can, but then you are, by definition, being hypocritical. Either you recognize previews and ads or you don't. There is nothing different about them.

No. Previews are not comics and that's about all that needs to be said. That wasn't my point at all. Context brother, context. I have never argued for books like this ( previews ads etc. ) being considered first appearances, to me, a character has to be in an original comic book story for that designation. The entire point of my post ( reply to ween ) was that even though they ( previews/ads) are cool to some people, and there is a niche market for people wanting/collecting them, even that niche market tends to only want the first " depiction" or first " preview" of said character. My point was, its hard to track down and research what actually WAS the first preview/ad/depiction of any character. Once you think you have the earliest one, someone else finds something dated earlier. One has to remember that before the internet, all comic news was on paper. There were dozens of " preview" books in the 80's. Which is why I find it hard to get on board with designating any Preview book as THE one to have. Case in point Darkhawk: Marvel age 97? It was, now its not... now its: Marvel Requirer # 11 Are we sure? This is currently THE Darkhawk preview to own if that's what you are into,. but will it change? That's what I dislike about previews. If none of this matters to you because they are not "comics" that is up to you. Pretending this niche market doesn't exist is a disservice to yourself and everyone in the community in which you interact with however. Oh and P.S. How many of you would love to own Gobbledygook # 1? Why? Its just a stupid ad right? Lets not be hypocrites.

Niche market book. This book has been semi-hot for years. Its a cool book. Typically brings $15-30 in decent shape, and there are always random buy it nows in the $50-100 range ( as collectors in this new era tend not to shop around like they should ) The problem I have always had with books like this, or any preview, is this question: It is really the first depiction of said character? I have found more often than not, that the first preview/ad whatever, is many times found to be wrong later on, there is something earlier. These previews and ads are MUCH harder to research than regular comic issues.

I have no skin in this game, but I find it strange that a " 2nd appearance" is missing from this list. When you look at it listed the way it is above, one gets a better idea of how absurd the whole argument is. Its like everyone is trying as hard as they can to not call 181 his 2nd appearance, and go as far as eliminating a 2nd appearance entirely. If 182 is his 3rd appearance, what is his 2nd? Anyone? Then you have to ask.... If 182 is a cameo ( and it is ), why is it considered his 3rd appearance? Based on your standards above, should it not be considered his 3rd appearance ( cameo ) and Giant size x-men be his 3rd full? This is what you are doing for his first appearance above, but change your stance on later appearances ... again ... why is there a double standard in place? I personally think we should consider labeling books ( with 1st cameos ) from now on like this: 180 : 1st appearance of wolverine ( cameo ) 181: 2nd appearance of Wolverine ( 1st full appearance ) 182: 3rd appearance of Wolverine ( cameo ) Giant size X-men 1: 4th appearance of Wolverine ( 2nd full appearance) Uncanny X-men 94 : 5th appearance of Wolverine ( 3rd full appearance) To me, this explains his appearances properly. Cameo has been a term we have used in this hobby forever. It doesn't need to go away, just call them for what they are. They are appearances, period. Cameo or not, label them in order and call them what they are. It doesn't matter if a characters 4th appearance is his 1st full, its still his 4th appearance ( 1st full) (thumbs u