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Qua-Brot

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Journal Entries posted by Qua-Brot

  1. Qua-Brot

    The Saga Begins

    By Qua-Brot,

    So I decided to jump into the CGC pool with a nice little splash - 29 books in the system for my first round, with more waiting at the board to dive in.
    I have collected off and on for a while (from way back before there was ever a grading company for comics) and in the last few years I started buying collections to finance my own collecting (I buy groups and sell them to cover the initial purchase and hopefully make a little in the deal so I can afford my expensive EC Fan-Addiction -- as my screen name might indicate). CGC was always a nifty idea, but never a reality. Then I started getting a few older books that I thought might benefit from an official grade (Iron Man 55, JIM 89, Tales of Terror Annual 3), but even then the trouble of going through the process, not to mention the outlay, was enough of a barrier for me. Those books sat on the side in a box waiting. As I bought more and more collections I would find a couple in each group that just popped -- really beautiful copies that I could see nothing wrong with. The first few went into the box waiting for some day. Then I got a few more, and I decided I should really do this, but still didn't get around to it. And then the small group was big enough and had enough books with decent value (Hulk 330 & 340, Xmen 244, ASM 238) that I went ahead and sent them in. I should get the first few back in about 2 weeks and I'll see if I am missing anything when it comes to grading, and if I can finance more slabbing in the future. (I have a group of nice mid/high grade early Brave and the Bold -- pre-superhero, amongst other books waiting for the results of my experiment) While not as exciting as buying a nice silver age collection from the original owner, I think it should be a fun learning experience to see what grades I get. And I'll be able to kick myself all over again for letting a nice high grade group of early 60's Adventure and Action comics go for way below guide. It was the second collection I bought, and the first with higher quality books (The early books were rough, i.e. GL 1 in fair, coverless JLA 1, etc., but the later -- i.e. early 60's -- were beautiful). I was nervous about sending them in to CGC and I wasn't confident enough in my own grading at the time. I don't even have to wait, just writing about it is enough to get me kicking myself all over again. Live and learn, I keep telling myself. Live and learn . . .
  2. Qua-Brot
    Wherein the Hero gets his first submissions back, and muses on sundry related items.
    I got my first batch of comics back, 5 Moderns. I can't say I am disappointed by the scores (9.4, two 9.6's), but I was hoping for 9.8's (don't we all?). Two of the books were lower, but I knew they would be (2 ASM 238: one a respectable 8.0, the other had the Tattooz removed so it got a very low qualified 6.0, which was a surprise to me and I wouldn't have sent it out had I noticed the Tattooz were removed -- live and learn).
    I am trying to figure out how to accurately grade my own books (Don't worry CGC, we will still need you). I know there is no science to it, but I will take more time to look at the books I send in, make notes of what I think the grade should be (or a range), and see how I fair vs. the CGC graders. Over time my grading has evolved. There were the obvious things to look for (blunting, rips, divots, etc.) but then there are conditions I wouldn't have looked at before (i.e. running my finger along the spine to feel for hidden breaks) that are now de rigueur. I am confident I will get to the point where I can be accurate (though that may take a lot of money and heartbreak).
    I am still waiting on two more submissions (one group of 21 moderns, and one of 8 Golden/Silver age comics I had pressed -- yes, I went there. Why shouldn't an absolutely stunning square bound EC annual have a slight spine roll flattened out?), and I am slowly amassing the funds for a 15+ Silver and Bronze group (Iron Man 55, Conan 1, JIM 93, early B&Bs). This can be expensive. Who am I kidding -- it IS expensive!!! Slabbing is growing on me. The beauty of a slabbed book, and being able to enjoy it without worry of damage or lowering the grade inadvertently, is a plus. If I want to read it there are so many reprints and TPBs out there that I can read the book, and entire runs, leisurely and cheaply, er, inexpensively. And after getting books slabbed, inexpensive is music to my ears!!!
    The one thing I think slabbing does take away from the hobby is the thrill of the hunt. I recently went to look through a collection where I was allowed to cherry pick, and I got some really nice finds (for example: Batman Annual 7 with such brightness and a smooth glossy cover that it looks like one of the recent reprints DC has done of the Giant Size books). I bought a slabbed book from that collection as well (early Superman at 6.5), but that part of the purchase was a straight business transaction. Buying the rest of the books was as much fun as searching for them. But these are my own proclivities.
    Anyway, I am rambling, and more to come when I get the grades for the 2nd group (21 moderns). The turnaround times are getting longer (and Leon is getting larger), though I do appreciate the new column that gives me a more realistic idea of when I will be getting my submissions back (Late June!!!! Holy P's and Queues, Batman!, and Late JULY -- ZOIKS!!!). It almost makes me want to send everything in Fast Track . . . hmm, is this a marketing ploy by CGC?
    Ok, enough rambling. Until I get my next group in, or if in submitting comics I come up with more I need to get off my chest, I will keep reading other's journals and keep searching for that farm fresh Action #1 (or Detective 27, or . . . . ).

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  3. Qua-Brot
    Despite the puns, an attempt at defining the issue
    I think we need to understand both sides in the controversy over Pressing and thereby allow everyone to look at the arguments and make their own decisions, and thereby we can move ahead to decide if Pressing is to be considered restoration, nothing, or something in between.
    The argument for Pressing is that you are neither adding nor replacing anything material to the book, and therefore it is still in its original state (i.e. it is the same book as before).
    The argument against Pressing is that you are artificially bringing the object closer to its original state (i.e. it is no longer in its "found" state).
    (Trimming and the like, it should be noted, is changing the item from what it is into something else, so it would be alteration. The difference between alteration and restoration is that while restoration alters the item by adding material, and is really a form of alteration, it does so in order to restore it to its previous condition.)
    The question then becomes what is the collector looking for when s/he is buying high grade books. Is it a book that has withstood the ravages of time, whether through careful storage or serendipity, or is it a book that looks like new? Or, maybe, some in between, and possibly indefinable, state that is only something each collector can feel for his or herself?
    But the more I think about it, beyond personal feelings about the issue, I cannot disagree with the Pressers. There are many areas of the field that might, or might not, be "impure," to those who have a visceral hatred of Pressing.
    What about a small fold over at a corner, or the small rip at the edge of a book that is bent back so we can see the underside of the cover -- what is it when we carefully bend these back into place (no gluing or taping, just gently repositioning the paper to its original place)? The color break and rip is still there, but the appearance has been changed for the better. Is that restorations?
    Should every event that happens be memorialized and added to a books pedigree? What about that tiny drop of water that once got on a page, and instead of letting it soak in and become part of the books condition you took a napkin and dried the page? Is that restoration? What if that happened when the book was new (a kid reading a comic while eating, though I'm sure not Parentally approved, is sure to have happened a few times in the history of Comicdom) and the kid quickly 'restored' the book? What about if that happened later on, when the book was 40 years old and it is quickly 'restored'? Does it make a difference?
    What about cleaning? I know it is common practice to take an eraser and gently erase some of the dirt from the backs (or fronts) of comics now and then. Or when one is looking at a book and notices a small spec of something adhering to the book to gently scrape it away with a fingernail. At what point does wiping a fleck of dust off the book become restoration? Is it categorically different than dry-cleaning a book (especially if it the process only removes surface dirt, and does not affect the page color or foxing, if any)?
    And what about that edge or corner that pops up a bit, caused by how the books were stored? Can one store it in a way that reverses this bend? Can we really put it on a backing board and in a bag without maintaining that bend exactly as it is? Is this pressing, or just storing? Or is that a convenient way to explain away that we might be 'restoring' a book that has been 'damaged' in some way?
    Are we looking for real, authentic books that haven't had any artificial handling at all? Then what about plastic bags? Backing boards? Shouldn't we be allowing time to take its toll on each book as it may so that we have, here in our hands, the true representation of this object of time and space and not some artificially maintained or augmented simulacrum of this book that came out 50 years ago?
    I have not exhausted the possible restorations that go on without a thought, or that no one would consider restoration. Others have brought up the fact that storing comics in stacks or tightly packed in comic boxes "Press" the books, and I am sure there will be other examples, common or not.
    I hope I have brought up good points and that this creates fruitful discussions, pro and con. I won't be surprised if this issue is never solved, but at least it should be delineated as well as can be and every point brought out so we don't become groups of big- or little-endians fighting past each other.
    In closing, I say to one and all -- PRESS ON!!!
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  4. Qua-Brot
    Not Steam Punk, but just starts moving ahead a bit more with my Fourth, and Largest, submission
    My previous submissions have been mixed bags and I look at them as more learning experiences than serious submissions. I was submitting comics I had bought and thought were nice examples that would do well to be graded. I got some surprises (Brave and the Bold 14 at 7.5! Third highest graded and THE lone 7.5! and a great Tales of Terror Annual 3 at 8.5) and some disappointments (an Xmen 211 at 7.0 -- one of my first submissions and I missed the non-color breaking folds on the back cover, but you live and learn -- and a Daredevil 21 at 8.0 which I thought would be higher). Most of the others were not shocks or unexpected, but I am learning what CGC looks at and, from speaking to more experienced graders and others, I am beginning to notice more of what contributes to good grading. I am hoping this is reflected in what I send in to CGC going forward.
    This group is large (to me) at 30 books. The group consists of beautiful Silver Age DC's (except for a single EC, single Fawcett and a single Marvel) -- mostly Detective and G. I. Combats. The Detectives are common (relatively for Silver Age) but they are really nice and I'd like to see them get in the 9's (9.6 and above would be a home run, but I won't be too heartbroken if they aren't quite there). The G. I. Combats are the real prizes, and depending on where they come in is how happy (or devastated) I will be in the end.
    Yes, I admit it; I am grading some of these for profit. Ugly word that, it seems. Thing is, I try to make my hobby (i.e. collecting comic books) pay for itself. I don't have lots of disposable cash, but I do see there is opportunity now and then to buy small collections or (what I think are) high-grade books at good prices, and then turn around and sell them for a profit. I almost always end up keeping at least one or two books from each collection so those don't cost me anything (since I sell the rest for a profit -- hopefully). I have a wide range of comics I collect, from Captain Marvel, Felix the Cat, Al Cap books, Pogo, EC War, Sci-fi and Mad, to Dr. Strange, Xmen, Teen Titans (first run), Green Lantern, and many of the comics with Neal Adams art, and one day I'd like to be able to get the Frazetta Famous Funnies! And some of them can be expensive. I'd love to just sit around and buy buy buy, but for now I am working at being a comic book monger (which does allow me to buy buy buy as long as I also sell sell sell).
    Don't get me wrong -- I actually enjoy this. I love the hunt, the surprises, the education, and the feeling of making my love of comics pay for itself (that last is just icing on the cake really). The exposure I get to the breadth of comics alone is worth it. That Brave and the Bold 14 is a perfect example. I had an opportunity to buy a group of comics from the original owner and thought the majority of the value was in the DC Superhero books from about that time (mid 1950's). Lots of Swashbuckling four colors, Disney Comics and Stories, and Tarzans. The superhero books weren't in great shape, but I knew they still had some value. But when I was looking through the collection I noticed there were a few of these Brave and the Bolds that looked nice. They weren't the Justice League issues so I had no idea what they were, just noticed the title and that they looked nice. Turns out the 6 or so Brave and the Bolds, in conditions between 6.0 and 8.0, are just about equal in value to the rest of the collection. Where else would I have been exposed to the Pre-superhero DC's (I know, DC always had Superheroes, but they had a few series that everyone knows now that didn't start out that way but became the vehicles that ushered in the Silver Age -- Brave and the Bold and Showcase). And now I know much more about all of the comics from that collection.
    Another example - one of the first collections I bought was also DC -- late 1950's to early/mid 1960s. None of the major Keys (it did have a poor condition Green Lantern 1 and coverless JLA 1), but in researching the value yours truly, who had been a big Marvel fan, suddenly discovered that DC was the real innovator of the Silver Age. Maybe DC didn't have the same type of angst and humanity that Marvel incorporated, but they did create a dash of realism (if that can be applied to comic book heroes) by injecting science-fiction origins for superpowers. Marvel grabbed that formula and ran with it (to the bank). But DC set the stage and really is to be given a lot of credit for the modern superheroes.
    Not to say I was a total rube when it came to comic book history, but by buying and selling comics I have expanded my horizons and it pushed me to start learning more about the history and characters, and, of course, how to grade and view comics as objects of pop-art. My appreciation of, and attachment to, the hobby comic collecting has only grown through my pursuit of comics and profit.
    So now I am trying to move into a little higher end of the comics business. The G. I. Combats were a bit of a gamble. I hope to at least make my money back so that I can be educated for the next group of comics I buy, and it would be great if I made a nice profit. I'd like to be able to buy my first Gaines File copy with comic book profits!

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  5. Qua-Brot
    Thoughts on how we look at the grades we get and why . . .
    Unless you are a grading genius and have better than 20/20 vision, a magnifying glass, bright lights in your back pocket and assorted other tools of the trade wherever you go, you are in the same boat as me and, I am sure, countless other CGC submitters: you suffer from the soul crushing experience of total and utter comic overgrading. Well, maybe not soul crushing, but disappointing.
    Yes, I thought I would have a few 9.6s, and even a 9.8 or two, and then a smattering of lower grades (by lower here I mean 9.2s). I thought I would have at least a few of the highest graded for the issues I sent in. I thought these books, (all Silver Age except 2 Golden Agers), were such incredible examples that I would be vindicated of all the money I spent! I would be hailed as a genius of genuine comic collecting! I would be rich! Independently wealthy! Comfortably well off! Rich, I tells you!
    Well, it didn't work out that way. Ok, the one that came back purple (ouch, like some bad bruise on my grading arm) is a mistake anyone who isn't an expert on finding those teensy color-touches can make. I let that one slide. But 6.5 on a comic I thought I'd get over a 9.0?!?!?! And the one comic I thought I would keep because it was such a beautiful copy and at least a 9.6 came back a measly 8.5!
    Now I have to point out one thing that is bothering me about this whole exercise. I mean, we are dealing with paper rags that were used, abused, neglected, rarely cared for and only remembered as an afterthought for the most part. I'm not talking about anything past the late 1970s mind you. I'm talking about Silver and Golden age books. In those days comics were for kids (with a few exceptions, and most of those exceptions were put out of business by the code, if you know what I mean) and very few people kept them in good condition, never mind about keeping them at all (all the stories about Mom's throwing out collections is one of the reasons these bits of paper are worth so many other bits of paper). So now comes along third party grading, and the interwebs, and a census, and pressing (none of which I have a problem with) and there comes about a major shift. What used to be considered rare and valuable now becomes second rate because there are now, known and publicized, a certain amount of near perfect copies of just about any comic you can think of. This is what is bothering me: we used to cherish the survival of these comics because of what they were and what they survived. Now there is a strong element of commoditization (for those who haven't graduated reading above a comic book level, er, I mean, well, what I mean to say is that the comics have become just another thing to buy and sell). And we see it in the Overstreet Price Guides changing value gradation between G/F/VF/NM. Those 9.2 copies and above maintain value, but everything else seems to slide into the dollar bin of history.
    Don't get me wrong - I jumped on the grading bandwagon mostly for the profit side of "for fun and profit." But I am first and foremost a collector. I love the thrill of the hunt, the feel of a great find (which is also what makes the overgrading so much harder to bear, it ruins the experience I had when I first got the book along with ruining the few days after I get the grade itself), and the discussions with others who enjoy the books, artists or history that I enjoy. I myself would rather have the raw book -- it seems more immediate and real (though having a double set, one graded and one raw, if I could ever afford it, would be ideal) as opposed to something neat to look at but inaccessible and remote. There are benefits to slabbed books -- you drop it or bang against it and you don't drop a grade or two, and in they keep better and display better than raw. But these are my personal predilections. To each their own, or so they say.
    So now, back to my point: I get these grades back and though they are not what I am expecting, they are mostly a solid 8.5 and above (and I did in fact get one that is the highest graded with only one other in that grade, an early 1960's GI Combat in 9.4, as well as some respectable 2nd and 3rd highest grades). But because of this trend of more and higher graded books these were not the homeruns I was hoping for. Here is the kicker - I feel guilty about being disappointed by what are really very nice grades. Its not the greed (I hope). I feel its more about expectations of what I bought and disappointment in my abilities. I will buy grader notes for a few of the shockers (if I can), and hopefully learn from the experience. I still plan to buy more comics and send them in for grading (and you, fearless reader -- and you must be fearless, or bored, if you have read this far -- will most likely read about them as they are sent and received) and I look forward to the day when I will be able to take a book by its cover, give it a once over, and be confident of what I am buying.
    Until my next submission (which is collecting itself on my shelf as we speak) . . .
    (the scan below is of the one I thought was so nice, but only got an 8.5!!!)

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  6. Qua-Brot
    The Urge to neurotically check on submission status 50 times a day
    Not an exciting post, just my simple ramblings.
    Ok, so its been a while since I submitted comics to CGC. Had my ups and downs with the last few submissions so wasn't so confident of my ability to pick the winners from my collection, and of course the sheer cost of submitting made me slow down a bit.
    I chose a small group, all Golden Age superhero (DC - the old Marvel/Timely comics seem to be going for way too much these days, for my blood at least) the latest of the bunch is Jimmy Olsen 5, an orphan from a collection I bought a few years ago that has been just sitting around waiting to be sold (probably a VG to F-). I figured if it came nicely slabbed it would be an easier sell.
    Of course, now that I have the submission received and verified, and sitting there verified, I have to check each day to see if the status has changed. Ok, I have to check a few times each day. I know it won't, nothing will happen the first 10 days or so (I splurged and went for fast track). Then there will be a burst of activity and, voila! graded comics will be on their way back home. But it makes me want to submit more. I'd like to be in a position where I can check each day and see the 10 groups of submissions rotating through the process, comics received, scheduled for grading, graded and then on the way home. Each day a new step in the process. And every few days another group sent out.
    I have to renew my membership so I'll have a coupon for 4 more to submit. But what to submit??? Just got a Swamp Thing 1 - first series - that looks just immaculate, and I've had a beautiful copy of Sub-Mariner 35 that is in the submit pile, and some nice silver Marvels and DCs. Do I submit what I bought as an investment, or submit what I bought for my collection? Take a risk on the ASM 252's, or Warlock 10, or go for older books? Maybe I should stop writing a journal about it and go sift through the submit pile and put it in some sort of priority?
    Just thinking out loud. I will be posting what I get in the end, so check back in 3 weeks or so.
    Pic is of one of the best from the last submission (scanner isn't big enough for the slabs, so this is as good as it gets!)
    Thanks!

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