Vger7

Question: If 1st Jane Foster as Thor is considered to be What If #10, why is 1st professor Hulk considered to be Hulk #377 and not What If #2? Is there a technicality that I'm not seeing? Thank you in advance for any replies.

I just completed a very smooth transaction with Ario. He paid when he said he would and made things quick and easy. He gets a 5 out of 5 stars from me. Thank you Ario!

Awesome... can't wait!

Should be a great show!!

Cool... can't wait!

I purchased a couple of books from Eric, but unfortunately, they arrived with cracked cases. However, I felt that the books were properly boxed up and padded with sufficient bubble wrap, which leads me to conclude that the package was excessively tossed around during commute. I sent some pics to Eric and described the damage and he was quick to reply with a resolution. We worked it out and he took action to conclude the matter for me immediately, which I appreciated.

Professional and easy to deal with =  Top score from me

Closed

I spent pretty much everything I made.

better to regret having taking a chance and failed than regret never taking a chance

 

Since this continues to be about you, instead of the OP, I'll put this thought out there. Mind you, I'm not trying to be harsh or mean.

 

Is there a chance skill had nothing to do with you not succeeding?

 

Clearly you have talent Kav, but your inability to consider, accept or even acknowledge an opinion other than your own may have been what held you back.

Yep that's what got Neal Adams a job-the ability to see other people's opinion.

Different time and place. The world has evolved since the 70's and there's a lot more good artists now. Ironically, comics being a commercial industry, there's is also less "real" art being produced thanks to tools such as Photoshop (note: "real" is in quotes because it's also a matter of definition for you fans of digital), but I digress.

It's not enough just to be good these days. You have to be "likable". Hado is on point and reinforces what I was saying earlier. Jim Lee didn't become "Jim Lee" just because he can draw well. He also has the right temperament. Think Hollywood. Lots of great actors but very few make it into the industry elite. It's the way of the world today, which is why people with an "A" type personality tends to excel, which also ties back in to Malcom Gladwell's observations in his book Outliers.

But this is all moot. As Kav has stated, he's retired and has no interest, which is a shame. But my message to younger folks is not to let the fire burn out. Stay active, hone your skills, learn to communicate, learn to promote yourself... because, "if you build it, they will come."

He said it was $65-70K for tuition and living expenses for all three years. $1900 a month doesn't sound like a crazy amount to gain life and cultural experience along with whatever art education that he would receive.

Over 3 years? $1900 a month? Even better! You probably already spend that anyways just hanging out. You can recoup that easily once you're back... even on minimum wage. Seems like a done deal to me... Go, learn, meet new people, sleep with local women, eat local food, open your mind, grow, become a better person, have fun. Send us a post card

There is so much bad advice in this thread from Kav.

 

Go to art school, it will make you a much better artist, and mixing with other students will be invaluable to your development as an artist. And of course Vienna itself will be an inspiration. Trust me on this. Good luck and have fun

 

 

Bad advice, or honest advice. You might be confused.

I really think you should apologize.

While I think the experience would be awe inspiring. I also think that you don't have to spend 70K to master your craft either. Isn't that really what kav is talking about?

Art comes from within, not some diploma from a prestigious art school.

70k is chump change for an opportunity to be enlightened. We live for experience, not to hoard money. Motivation comes from within... art is a reaction to to experience. Without experience, what are you trying to say... Look how well I can draw? Lots of people can draw, it's how and what you communicate that matters. If you get fixiated on just drawing, you will fail as an artist. Go the Vienna. Work the system... get funding. Be great. Only people who do nothing have regrets.

Okay... let me spell it out for you. If you didn't like art school, it probably means you didn't fit into that community. You pushed against it so they pushed back. Suddenly, a teacher or fellow student doesn't like you and you don't know why. The result is a negative experience. I've met many people similar to you, who are very skilled but were stuck on the mechanics of art. They couldn't, and wouldn't acknowledge the BS concepts from an art school, because it didn't require any drawing skills. Triangles, squares, stripes, and splashes take seemingly no skill at all... but, it does require an open mind to appreciate what people like Pollack, Riopelle and Jack Bush was trying to accomplish. To these guys, anyone can learn to draw but finding beauty in chaos, order through randomness and the juxtaposition of color had a deeper meaning.

 

I don't know how old you are but there are many paths in front of you. Your talent can reach people in many different ways. And if you are “likeable"... and assuming you can do the job, they will find a way to use you. And if they don't like you... no matter how talented you are, they will find a way to get rid of you. It's just how people are.

 

Most famous people are acutely aware of the need to be liked and so they try very hard to be humble, flexible, inclusive, accepting, gracious and open to criticism. It's all a game. This is why don't see guys like Jim Lee on these boards raking some poor chump over the coals for breaking some unwritten code of comic book ethics. Is Jim Lee the best artist that DC has? NO. But he is likeable and knows how to play the game.

 

You need a public persona and start building relationships. Luck is for people who have no talent. Is this you? People used to say the same thing to me when I was looking for work in advertising. All communities are a clique but I eventually broke in. Once I became a director, I started using the "luck" excuse on young designers so that their feelings wouldn't be hurt.

 

You need a plan of attack, a strategy. Figure out exactly what you want and start walking and talking like the people who've have it so that you blend in. I guarantee this will work.

I did not push against it I cooperated completely. Working as a comic artist you get a -script and you draw it. there is no real socialization involved. I was always flexible. One writer I drew 25 different covers for him till I got it the way he wanted. CP Smith told me he submitted for years-one day an artist dropped out right when he walked in the office-he was hired. It was 'luck'. I need no plan of attack-I have no interest in drawing comics any more. If Marvel contacted me tomorrow I would decline.

There are hundreds of thousands of talented people that want to draw comics. If you think the only thing holding them back is their personality, you are mistaken.

That's all fine but let's not get hung up on minutiae. Luck is helpful when you can get it, but you can't rely on it. The point is, if you want something more for your art, it can be achieved. It just requires some “promotional” effort. If you don't want it… that's okay too. I guess if you're retired, you probably want to kick back and take it easy.

I think it's cool that you can draw and continue throughout your retirement, instead of ending up on a cruise ship.

Okay... let me spell it out for you. If you didn't like art school, it probably means you didn't fit into that community. You pushed against it so they pushed back. Suddenly, a teacher or fellow student doesn't like you and you don't know why. The result is a negative experience. I've met many people similar to you, who are very skilled but were stuck on the mechanics of art. They couldn't, and wouldn't acknowledge the BS concepts from an art school, because it didn't require any drawing skills. Triangles, squares, stripes, and splashes take seemingly no skill at all... but, it does require an open mind to appreciate what people like Pollack, Riopelle and Jack Bush was trying to accomplish. To these guys, anyone can learn to draw but finding beauty in chaos, order through randomness and the juxtaposition of color had a deeper meaning.

I don't know how old you are but there are many paths in front of you. Your talent can reach people in many different ways. And if you are “likeable"... and assuming you can do the job, they will find a way to use you. And if they don't like you... no matter how talented you are, they will find a way to get rid of you. It's just how people are.

Most famous people are acutely aware of the need to be liked and so they try very hard to be humble, flexible, inclusive, accepting, gracious and open to criticism. It's all a game. This is why don't see guys like Jim Lee on these boards raking some poor chump over the coals for breaking some unwritten code of comic book ethics. Is Jim Lee the best artist that DC has? NO. But he is likeable and knows how to play the game.

You need a public persona and start building relationships. Luck is for people who have no talent. Is this you? People used to say the same thing to me when I was looking for work in advertising. All communities are a clique but I eventually broke in. Once I became a director, I started using the "luck" excuse on young designers so that their feelings wouldn't be hurt.

You need a plan of attack, a strategy. Figure out exactly what you want and start walking and talking like the people who've have it so that you blend in. I guarantee this will work.

Van Gogh is cemented in history, as well being the definition of “starving artist”. I'd say that kind of posterity is pretty EPIC, even though he struggled in life.

Your work is only part of the package. I don't know you so I can't say jack but as it is with these boards, sometimes the trick is fitting in.

Exactly my experience Artboy. The students that could actually draw were loathed by the instructors.

In response to the other comments of why didn't I put myself out there-I worked with several writers, had several books printed, won an award with my Mr X story, Tales From the Void was lauded at comicon, books are on websites, reviewed and lauded. I did everything humanly possible-there are just way too many talented wannabe artists and writers out there. In a field that has maybe one job opening a year. The current comic artists many of them have to struggle to find work.

when people ask me how do you break into comics I tel them 'you don't'.

 

To the guy who said maybe I'm just not very good - bite me.

Unfortunately, there are no guarantees in life. You can work hard and do all the things you're supposed to do... but at the end of the day, if it wasn't meant to be, it may not work out the way you expect. But this has no baring on talent or ability.

The beauty of art is that you can continue to practice it and enjoy it. Keep drawing and painting with no expectations and stay active. Wonderful things WILL happen.

I love this piece, a very graphic interpetation:

Are you comic pages from an actual book or personal stuff?

I'm a big believer in Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour rule. That it takes a person 10,000 hours of practice to become a master of a skill. My question to the OP is, are you willing to put in a minimum of 10,000 hours to possibly achieve your dream (that's 8 hours a day every day for 3 and a half years)

 

Outliers was a great read! Practice, practice and practice. It made so much sense.

 

I guess I'll be the outlier here and say his books are bad pop science, but I will say they're entertaining enough reads.

I really enjoyed it... along with his other books Blink and Tipping Point. Making connections across location and large amounts of time is not an exact science but it all fits. The little things you do today can effect you profoundly many years from now.

Many parents are on top of accumulative advantage so there is lots of support out there. It's a fascinating social study.

At my school it was a teacher who painted nothing but squares. I went to the art program at Sacramento City College. These were well known artists who taught there. Wayne Thiebaud taught there. also Gregory Kondos-whose main instruction was telling the students repeatedly they would never be as good as him. Daryl forney, many successful artists taught at that school. I did have one good teacher, my design instructor. After that bitter experience I changed my major to biology. Now I am retired.

I did however always continue drawing, sometimes 10 hours a day, trying to become a comic artist. All those wasted years.

 

http://kaviart.deviantart.com/gallery/

 

 

Art is subjective, but maybe you didn't succeed because you aren't a very good artist, and no amount of education and training will fix that.

Success is NOT just about being good. Lots of great undiscovered talent out there. I would say the bulk of it is how you promote yourself. It takes initiative and motivation and salesmanship... even within a corporation. That's why leaders usually have a type “A” personality and enjoying talking, often about nothing.

If you've got both, skill and salesmanship... then look out world!

I'm a big believer in Malcolm Gladwell's 10,000 hour rule. That it takes a person 10,000 hours of practice to become a master of a skill. My question to the OP is, are you willing to put in a minimum of 10,000 hours to possibly achieve your dream (that's 8 hours a day every day for 3 and a half years)

Outliers was a great read! Practice, practice and practice. It made so much sense.

Dude... that's some pretty nice stuff! Why you hanging around here? Why not go work on an independent project with that talent of yours. If you're retired, do it for fun. No deadlines or pressure. Your stuff should be published.

The problem with higher learning is, that many pros may be good at being an artist... but not necessarily at teaching. They get hired through their experience but they themselves are never schooled on things like diversity, various types of learners, tolerance and how to support students.

No need to wait for Marvel or DC to come calling... You can submit your stuff to sites like Blurb and produce limited copies of your stuff and start promoting yourself. I'd buy a copy... signed of course.

Kav... can I ask:

Which art school did you attend?

Area of study?

What are you doing now work wise?

Ballpark response would be cool if you don't wanna get detailed. Just curious. I'd love to see your stuff.

Art School Confidential was hilarious because there were many “truths” that we can relate. However, as entertainment, it's selective about what it chooses to show or make fun of. We had a “triangle guy” at our school only he reinvented “stripes”, or so he claimed. We also had a guy who always dressed in white suits. The students called him the “glad man”. Pretty funny.

Looks like I'm in the minority again. I do agree that you don't need school to develop hand/eye coordination and school in itself cannot guarantee success… However, art is so much more than being visually coordinated. In school, students are exposed to and will develop:

• Variety of styles, techniques, thinking.

• History, which seems boring on the surface but really fascinating to know how we got here. Much of which was accidental.

• The butterfly effect. Understand how small things can connect, influence and shape the big picture.

• Networking. Stay in touch with fellow peers. A lot of projects, support and direction will come from them.

• Exposure. You're able to try stuff that you normally wouldn't. A well rounded program includes sculpture, environmental design, design & advertising, digital & new media, photography… etc.

• Business. Learn how to market yourself. How to price your work and value your time. Tax implications, benefits, politics.

• Options. Learn where the jobs are, i.e.; gallery, institutional, commercial, freelance.

• And so much more… like hanging out with the pros, awards, learn how to get written up, social skills, business skills, become more worldly, opens your mind, meet your significant other.

Yes, you can find answers to these on your own of course, but most people don't even know what question to ask. In the end, you'll be well rounded, knowledge rich, more versed… all of which helps to authenticate who you end up becoming. Also, your certificate will help to open doors and you never have to look back.

But… you have to make the effort. You can't just attend classes and expect things to fall into your lap. If you pay for the all you can eat salad bar, it's up to you to fill your plate.

I'm pro education so I hope you'll continue with your studies. Money comes and goes but the true currency in life is TIME. Money is meant to enrich your life… and going to Vienna to study art is the kind of stuff they give away to lottery winners… so enjoy it.

Your work shows so much promise… I hope it works out.

I'm looking forward to Micronauts in myself... I hope it rings of Fantastic Voyage!

ROM is looking dated... He'll need an overhaul...