aerischan

8 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Wow. How very, very interesting.

I've heard of books having second printings ordered, but never arriving, the same day as the firsts. This might be an industry first.

You'd think this might just be a logistics issue. Why aren't they printing overruns?

The conspiratorial might suggest: marketing.

Very interesting.

DC has recently reduced their overprints (line-wide). Probably trying to save money. They have slimmer profit margins than Marvel considering they're sticking to $2.99 on their double shipped books so they have to count their pennies more carefully. I wouldn't be surprised if the reason DC solicited reprints at the same time for all of the Batman one-shots that were already past final order cutoff (FOC) was because they were trying to save money with a bigger batch order. The non-foil 2nd print probably costs DC less per copy than the foil 1st print, too.

Marvel has, for a long time, barely been doing any overprints and they're actually quicker to go to multiple printings compared to DC. 

I don't think retailers expected Metal one-shots to do quite as well as they did given event fatigue over on the Marvel side. The big event prior was Secret Empire and there are plenty of retailers complaining about the SE one-shots not selling so I'm not actually surprised if retailers underestimated demand.

From Brian Hibbs' Tilting at Windmills:

Quote

Meanwhile, on the other coast, DC continues… well, doing something with the whole “Dark Days / Metal” group of things. DC’s got a real branding mess on their hands with a really unclear focus on just exactly what most of this stuff is, and how it ties together, and just why people should care. Weeks in on the promotional wheels of all of these books, and I honestly can’t tell if there’s a good idea in the middle of this with unnecessary ideas being layered on top, or if instead the whole thing was poorly conceived from the word “go” – I still don’t really understand what “Metal” itself is? And that’s a pretty big sin for “the big fall event”?

 

DC has also announced some truly baffling stuff, like a seven issue weekly series of one-shotsthat all sound exactly like continuity-waste “Elseworlds” of “What If Batman was Green Lantern…. But Eeeeeeevil!” and “What If Batman was Flash…. But Eeeeeeevil!” and “What If Batman was Aquaman…. But Eeeeeeevil!” and….. well, let me stop you there, hoss, because I don’t see how the audience gives a darn, not at $4 a throw, not for seven of those?

 

And worse, I believe I can correctly fill in the colors from a video chat with Dan Didio on the Facebook page that because these books are all with fancy covers, they’re going to do the solicitations for them super-early, essentially ruining Final Order Cutoff for ordering the comics incompatible – we aren’t just ordering three of them essentially blind… we’re ordering all seven.

Just to give an idea of the required lead time for retailer orders, Dark Nights Metal #5 (Foil) has FOC of 11/06/17 and release date of 01/10/18. Most books with 11/06/17 FOC would be released 11/29/17. Most books released on 01/10/18 would have FOC of 12/18/17. By my estimates, FOC for Batman: The Merciless 1st print was 08/21/17 which was before Batman: Red Death was released.

12 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

If someone knows why these books require a "2 month lead time", please feel free to share. "It's foil" isn't the the answer. Does anyone know what specifically is special about it being foil that would require that length of time. 

Doing some more research, apparently they ordered "second prints" before the first printing was even published, which would be quite revolutionary...but may be explained by the above....in which case, these aren't "second printings" but "regular variants"...and certainly looks to be a marketing gimmick. 

Anyone with info?

What's the indicia/who's the printer for the first print? I've actually wondered if they're printing special covers in China.

http://www.printninja.com/printing-resource-center/printing-academy/advanced-concepts/foil-stamping-process

Anyway, DC did give advance notice that the special covers have earlier FOC. At least this was less confusing than what they did for Batman/Flash: The Button lenticulars.

7 hours ago, deadleg said:

Here we go again with DC manufacturing "printing errors" to sell books again. 

Iirc, DC replaces books with printing errors free of charge so doing that deliberately just costs them money. I'm curious, where are DC's foil covers being printed? China?

2 hours ago, SteppinRazor said:

Therein lies the problem.  This demographic isn't growing.

Quality will drive sales, but it is the least important to the suits (Disney).  The business model doesn't create an environment where quality workers want to produce there.  Those that were smart enough to try and slow down the phase out of the old for new (a concept I think is wise), if they existed, weren't listened to.  Seems like those above directed a change for new characters to draw in new readers, and weren't interested in waiting for a logical transition.

Netflix - $10.99/mo for hours of entertainment

YouTube - free

smartphone apps/games - around $0.99-$9.99 for hours of entertainment

manga - around $9.99-12.99 for around 200 pages, or $15 for a 600-page omnibus

Single issue comics have priced themselves out of the casual market. No doubt part of the appeal of buying graphic novels through mass market are the hefty discounts lowering the cost per issue to $2 or so. The Walking Dead Compendiums are an easy way to catch up with the series and comes out to less than $1/issue with discounted pricing. Even at full MSRP, it's just $1.25/issue.

Quality drives sales to a point. However, the quick turnaround for single issues doesn't really allow time for word of mouth to help. Hot/buzzed about books getting cleaned out from store shelves the day of release (for a quick flip on ebay at more than double the cover price) makes floppies even less attractive for someone who just wants to read. Needing to put comics on a pull list just so you're guaranteed a copy sucks.

10 hours ago, F For Fake said:

Also (and we've beaten this horse to death, but why not bring it up again) Marvel wouldn't force any sort of diversity if they didn't think they could make money off of it. They are a huge business, owned by another huge business (one of the hugest, no doubt), and they don't make any decisions simply for altruistic purposes. They thought they could expand their demo, appealing to different and more diverse audiences, and increase sales. If they managed to get some positive headlines along the way, and actually make some under-represented minorities happy along the way, all the better. Makes sense, but it doesn't seem to have really played out in sales, because at the core, the average comic buyer is a middle aged white dude who is resistant to any sort of change in his nostalgia hobby. 

The stupid thing there is pricing and distribution. Who else but the already addicted/dedicated would bother buying 20-page floppies at $3-4 a pop? Comics getting caught up in events and crossovers makes the pricing problem even worse.

DC Super Hero Girls was an unexpected hit for DC. What DC did right is they made it very affordable ($0.99 digital first chapters and $9.99 trade once or twice a year) and distribution that actually reached the target demo.

4 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Ms. Marvel is currently only shipping about 17k a month.
But....this is interesting looking back now:

The market has grown larger. Is it because of demographic changes (as the graphic-novel chart-topping title this month, Ms. Marvel, might suggest),

http://blog.comichron.com/2014/11/october-comics-shop-orders-best-in-17.html

Wasn't 2014-15 also when Image speculation was rampant? I think the breadth of offerings did attract some new blood. However, I do wonder if the increase in direct market floppy sales is a result of new readers or is it primarily thanks to variant collectors. I counted at least 120K worth of store exclusive variant orders each for Batman #1 and Harley Quinn #1 (Rebirth).

4 hours ago, JTLarsen said:

Saying someone is doing X just for the sake of doing X is tacitly admitting you don't know why they're doing it. So I told you.

I expect the big diversity push is because Ms. Marvel sold unexpectedly well and managed to reach new audiences. Marvel went all in on diversity trying to catch lightning in a bottle. Same reason they've been doing events, variants and renumberings to distraction. If something sells, they'll reuse the concept over and over and over again until it stops selling.

One caveat with diversity is Marvel expects the books to sell as single issue floppies and immediately cancels underperforming titles before they can even make their way into book channel where the new audience consumes their comics.

3 hours ago, SquareChaos said:

If you really care about new characters and situations, you can pick up a whole new set of problems (scheduling, abrupt abandoning of a series, etc)  to complain about by reading more creator owned work.

Unfortunately, this. Most Image titles work better if you're trade waiting. That way, a year or two in between books doesn't seem so bad.

Schedule can be frustrating for me with Image so I don't even bother with floppies now for new series. At least when you get a complete story arc each time, the wait isn't as bad.

4 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

That's because they have fallen victim to the mentality in our hobby currently. Issue 1 sells like gang busters and then sales fall of the cliff after issue 1 because of massive speculation.

You must see it at shows as well. What worries me is when the movie bubble burst can you imagine how much the industry will have to contract? The economic repercussions in a couple
of years are going to be drastic.

Quality books maintains your comic business during the lean times. Some publishers better start thinking about that.  I agree Image has the best model, but they just aren't financed as well 
as DC or Marvel who really doesn't care if they make good books or bad anymore.

 

I was listening to an Off Panel podcast interview with Jonathan Hickman. It was interesting to note that he mentioned Wicked+Divine, Sex Criminals, etc. sell a hundred thousand copies as trades. Perhaps that's where the actual (new) readership is coming from.

DC's made some very interesting moves of late. They're going aggressively after the young readers' market and I think they're probably trying to find some new evergreens. They also seem to be experimenting with formats. I'm definitely looking forward to Enrico Marini's Batman: The Dark Prince Charming.

I enjoyed it granted, paying just $4 for it probably helped. Feels more like a setup issue though.

5 hours ago, 1p36DSA said:

Kill the Minotaur selling like crazy on feebay. Announcement yesterday, wasn't expecting this one. Not sure how heavily ordered this one was.

 

#1 - 12,117

#2 - 7,308

#3 - 5,834

Cool short box. 

3 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I'd call it the gimmickiest cover, but that's just me:

http://www.cbr.com/valiant-quantim-woody-most-variant-cover-all-time/

That was the point, I think...

Still needs trading card and polybag. Maybe a bullet hole.

Also not glow in the dark. Maybe they can hit two birds with one stone and include that via the stickers?

3 hours ago, ygogolak said:

Frankies Comics. Not on sale yet.

Thanks!

Note, Marvel Unlimited is 6 months delayed so I don't think the new X books are available on the service yet.

11 minutes ago, Nino_013 said:

Question, where is the left artwork from? Store exclusive variant?

Stay safe!

1 hour ago, Juno Beach said:

I couldn't figure out if Black Widow is alive or not. The newest Previews has her on the cover of some book (can't remember which one offhand).

Iceman (AUG17 Previews) and Mighty Captain Marvel (SEP17 Previews). For Iceman, she's specifically mentioned in the solicit (original Champions reunion).

As a Black Widow fan, the confusion regarding her current status is annoying. Supposedly, that panel with Rick, Tasha and Las Vegas is a symbolism of the things that Kobik didn't restore. They even showed her funeral. However, the solicits for upcoming issues are pretty contradictory.

I dunno if this is gonna be similar to Bucky's "death" in Fear Itself and whether I should preorder Iceman or not.

5 hours ago, Mercury Man said:

 

Ok, so that was published March 2016.  So Hydra Cap was dormant in 
Steve Rogers until May 2016 (Steve Rogers Captain America issue #1), or roughly 3 months.   

Sound right? 

I guess? I just read Standoff via Marvel Unlimited and only got started on Steve Rogers during the Black Friday comiXology sales, iirc. 

Captain America: Sam Wilson #7

9 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Annuals need love too

Yeah. Just look at that cute face. 

On 8/27/2017 at 1:56 PM, H0RR0RSH0W said:

A very valuable and interesting perspective to include Graphic Novels. The figures are something to raise an eyebrow at. I would very much agree that graphic novels are a major focus of attention for anyone wanting to read the story line for a property. Many times( although I would personally push people to seek out individual issues as opposed to a republished collection) I talk to people about this TPB or that that they just bought .  Highly sought after(clearly).

Myopic perhaps to look at floppy sales but I highly highly doubt that in 10-20 years time we are going to see key issues come out of this era having experienced exponential growth in value.  In that regard it is common knowledge that the big 2 are doing persistent reboots in their own unimaginative and short-sighted goal to drum up sales. Stats simply show #1's sell more copies. Well duh  . Imagine how that restricts creators. Certainly more readily than it would stoke the creative fires. Like being choked by diversity rather than being suffocated for lack of fuel. The crux being keys become valuable for a reason; because rarity aside they are good comics that create a focal point in a storyline.

If I did have a dog in this race it would have to be with the indie publishers. I find my reading focused around indies and yes I myself bag and board everything. Everything.  

I can't even begin to predict what comic will be hot tomorrow let alone what would remain valuable in 10-20 years.

My point isn't so much regarding comic collecting as a hobby. Rather, it's that comics as a medium are regaining widespread acceptance and readership. Sure, you can't buy them from the newsstand around the corner anymore. However, I can buy/borrow comics on comiXology or Marvel Unlimited or Hoopla at 1am on a whim using my tablet when I'm already in my jammies. If I enjoy what I read enough to want a copy for archival, I can easily order either the graphic novel from InStockTrades or perhaps the single issues from Midtown or MyComicShop or ebay even at 2am.

There's actually broad interest in comics now. People just don't need to visit a (sometimes unwelcoming) specialty store and buy 8 sheets of stapled paper in order to read comics.

11 hours ago, bababooey said:

I recently read the Cap run from return of Bucky, death of Cap to Reborn - I was able to grab three cheap omnis at a garage sale & ripped through them pretty quickly.  Liked them enough to continue with the Secret Avengers run from a few years ago that I never bothered to read when buying them. 
 

Wow, lucky. The omnibus hardcovers are out of print and fetch a pretty penny off ebay ($150-250 each for first three). Been looking for more affordable prices on those.

33 minutes ago, H0RR0RSH0W said:

Yeah I think there are some good comics out there right now.... but

1. The speculation in moderns is frightening. Sometimes I fear it  is so wild that it could undermine collecting and turn all comic collecting on its ear. It is rampant and disappointing to see. There is no precedent for the "value" of modern speculation. Any perceived value rests on the real Golden Age as does much of the valuation of the other eras.

2. Plainly there is no where near enough broad interest in comicbooks. Once again referring to the Golden Age the number of people that actually collect and read Modern comics is small in terms of percent that might have interest in a given property. In the Golden Age comics were on every street corner, every drugstore, supermarket, used book store and  gas station , etc. Of the 320 million people living in the US right now how many of us actually go down to the corner store any more to pick up the newspaper and a coffee and get "the kids a comic"? I am not looking at any sales figures or publication #s but I got a hunch it is not a lot. Comics are not what they once were: a major mode of entertainment. 

3. Alot of the reason for the above statement is that we live in the information age. We have technology to circumvent the need to own physical copies. People get the news on-line and so too do many many people read comics; Often for free . This is reflected in what are actual print and sales numbers which are from what I know quite low.  Back when print runs were in the hundreds of thousands and those issues sold in large part comics took up a necessary space on store shelf space. You still have comic shops with pull lists and dedicated readers , I buy more than my share of floppies and back issue readers myself. But the 60's + 70's rebirth is over, the 80's boom is done, the 90's crash is in the past and the modern age simply consists of  the die hard's. 

4. Evidenced this all is in Modern comic culture. Look at comic cons. I hear they consist mostly of pop-culture/cosplay. TV series and movies drum up some interest in comics but a lot of that energy is bled of into other modes of comic culture and fan-dom.  Yes those people in attendance are buying , sometimes big, but does it really consist of a full resurgence and new Golden age? I just do not see how.

Comics will always be a beloved and popular cultural medium . The art , the stories and characters will remain iconic. At best the reflourishing and resurgence could cause a "renaissance" so unless someone can explain how it is a new Golden Age just because of some good writing  I say no way.IMO

 

Renaissance is probably a more apt term.

That said, looking solely at floppy sales is myopic unless your primary concern is comic valuation in which case, yes, modern speculation looks like the wild west.

Graphic novel sales figures through book channels (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Walmart, etc):

Year - Units Sold - Retail Value

2012 - 9,562,236 - $164,415,366

2013 - 10,153,628 (+6.18%) - $176,419,370

2014 - 11,820,324 (+16.41%) - $207,598,355

2015 - 15,269,550 (+29.18%) - $259,807,532

2016 - 17,302,891 (+13.32%) - $293,583,180

Graphic novels sold through/to indie book stores, book fairs, comic book stores, libraries or digital are not included in the above. I do have to say, comics/graphic novels seem to be more accepted now by librarians compared to what it was like even in the recent past.

And really, the value of Golden Age comics is what it is because there were few collectors at the time while having a lot of readers. Nowadays, my guess is almost all the floppy buyers are collectors that keep their floppies bagged and boarded.