JTLarsen

Wonder Woman 184? Hughes cover...

Everyone stands on the shoulders of giants.

I forget the others, but Kubert is hardly the only factor re 83.

Ah, didn't realize that. Luckily, as I said, it doesn't matter.

Totally forgot about all this. Doesn't matter to ME...the contents of 54 and 60 speak for themselves...but if your argument is that it matters what the company says, well...

Eminently reasonable.

You are bad at knowing things. I've ALREADY SAID go ahead and call 54 the origin. I've ALREADY SAID I don't care about trademarks. Robin's remark doesn't "tie" or "confirm" anything except the sequence. "After" doesn't equal "because of." Look it up. Also look up "straw man." I've ALREADY SAID the Titans existed before 60. Which is how they can appear...for the first time...in 60. You can call 54 an origin, prototype, tryout or any other SUBJECTIVE term you want. It is OBJECTIVELY false to claim that the superhero team "The Teen Titans" appears in it.

Of course it matters. If one person sees this and buys either 60 OR 54 as an INFORMED choice, it matters to them.

OMG, this again. Fine, please post the panel in which they are a team (as opposed to heroes working together prior to forming a team.) And if you read 60 he literally says they formed the team after 54. It's like saying America was founded the first time Washington, Madison, and Jefferson met.

Hej from America! I know there's a guy who works at the Pharoah's Cigarer in Copenhagen who collects...!

DC's view is that people who disagree with you care about the trademark? You continually shade your descriptions toward your argument, not just on the intellectually dishonest characterization of your opponents' argument. DC doesn't tout a "new team" in the sense you suggest--as we've litigated ad nauseam, they referred to every teamup at that time as a new team. Robin doesn't say the team formed AS A RESULT of the adventure in 54. You saying that 54 is the origin doesn't make it so. You saying that "all" that happens in 60 is adopting a name and having a "second" adventure doesn't make it so. IIRC correctly, the name and team are established before the events of 60, but after 54, making 60 their first, not second adventure. First appearance, even. If you want to say 54 is their "origin," go right ahead, there's nothing in the text to contradict you. But 60 is the first time a superhero team called the Teen Titans appears in comics.

When you dishonestly represent your opponents' side, you reveal the paucity of your own argument. The argument isn't that "the trademark" doesn't appear in 54. It's that the team doesn't appear, form, or get named in 54. If you truly valued the continuity of the story, you'd care about the details of each. No team is formed in the story told in 54. The story told in 60 reveals that the continuity of the team began in the events after 54.

This seems fair. If 54 "feels" like the first appearance to you, go for it. I just don't want unwary buyers not to know the facts.

Yeah. 60 refers to 54, but says it preceded the formation of the TT. Which, it'd have to, since there is no TT in 54.

Lots of things reference 54 as the first. But none of them are 54 itself (or 60).