Steven Coates

Always a great resource!

And the publishers are no help. What ever term is handy can be applied. And the GCD doesn't seem to understand the difference between a comic book produced for the "British" market by a UK publisher and a "British" UKPV from a USA publisher. I am seeing "Canadian" applied to both a general market CPV and a newsstand market CPV where there is a direct market copy also circulated in Canada, without any clarifying remarks or notes. I only get GCD mailings from threads I am active in. I drop in often to see if any thing gets my interest. I like to start a thread when I find I am going to make corrections to existing data or to present findings and reasoning to changing the data.

"Steven - what's your view / understanding?", doesn't look like much of a question, does it? The answer is not so easy. New and additional issues are now controlled by the cover images. The restrictions are (simply) base and variants. Criteria for printer errors has not been (rigidly) defined other than it is considered a print error if it does not meet the base or variant criteria. Including printer error covers would increase the number of issues. Everyone who had a print error cover would be submitting to the GCD. I would like to see an alternate cover table added to the database to store both the variant covers and the print error covers, but that is a major restructuring.

Thanks Steve. It didn't get a warm reception with a couple of GCD members. One responded with "Perhaps reasonable but certainly wouldn't agree with that conclusion." and another with " ...Perhaps another explanation could be the magenta plate was remade and during that process one of the masks was disturbed on the composites, the operator didn’t notice, and a new negative/positive was made to burn to plate?" The first is rather dismissive and the second doesn't understand the intermediate print error or the cost of re-shooting and producing a new plate. But, I did get the print error removed as a variant and the USP and UKPV fixed with notes about the print error. Steve

On the Fantastic Four #110 mis-print cover, I did some color channels on it and was able to re-order the CYAN and MAGENTA channels to get proper finished colours. Such a colour plate order would have been an easy and inexpensive fix. Steve

Thanks, you got my thinking straighten out. And with some additional investigation and re-creation I think you are correct. I post the following at the GCD main discussion group. WARNING: the GCD uses "British" instead of UKPV. Fantastic Four #119 https://www.comics.org/issue/24878/? Currently there are 3 covers in the GCD. One is the British variant and the other two are mis-identified. The issue identified as "Color-Correct Logo Variant" is the actual base issue and the base is a print error. It is an unusual printing error, as it a fault in the Magenta plate and the following illustrates the the reasoning . All images were gathered from eBay. A cross check with Heritage Auctions revealed no new information, but did confirm the eBay images are common. Due to the image sources and the age of the printed material, considerable variance should be expected and considered approximate only. Using digital RGB photographs of CMYK printed material, converting to CMYK and then examining the colour channels can only lead to approximations of the actual printing process. Clip 1: shows the intended colours for the cover. There are numerous copies in evidence. Clips 2 through 8 are Clip 1 converted to CMYK and channel separated. Clip 2 is CYAN and BLACK. Clip 3 is CYAN only and shows the density of the colour application to the paper. Clip 4 is MAGENTA and BLACK. Clip 5 is MEGENTA only and shows the density of the colour application to the paper. Clip 6 is YELLOW and BLACK. Clip 7 is YELLOW only and shows the density of the colour application to the paper. Clip 8 is BLACK only and shows the density of the colour application to the paper. Clip 9 shows the smallest bit of breakdown in the MEGENTA plate. It is difficult to see at the current resolution. Clips 10 through 12 show a similar area of deterioration. There are numerous examples showing the same area. Clip 13 shows the spread of the deterioration. There are many examples available. Clip 14 shows the same area of deterioration on all the British (UKPV) covers. Clip 15 shows the deterioration to the Magenta plate could have been much greater. The printing process would have applied the inks in the CMYK order and as the MAGENTA plate was deteriorating it would not apply ink to the area, leaving it untouched and allowing the YELLOW plate to fill the area. The MAGENTA plate deterioration could have been the metal plate losing material in the area or some foreign substance was causing the ink to be repelled and the foreign substance spreading as the press was running. The area could have increased considerably but not extensive enough to affect the adjacent MAGENTA areas. It is fairly obvious the British (UKPV) cover copies were printed last, with what appears to be a BLACK plate only replacement. I will be moving the cover images and once approved delete the "Color-Correct Logo Variant" and I will add notes to both the base and the British variant about the print error. Steve

I got another one. Has anyone seen the correct UKPV cover of Fantastic Four #119. The print error is adjacent to the "F" in Fantastic, where the area should be red it is yellow. A search of eBay shows about even split (9:8) for the US cover print run and all (3) the UKPV's to have the printing error. Which puts a wrench into expectations of printing order. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=Fantastic+Four+%23119&_sacat=259104&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&_odkw=comic+books&_osacat=73&_dcat=73&Publisher=Harvey https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=fantastic+four+%23119&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=6 Steve

Well! That got a chuckle. Your order of events is exactly what I would expect. Now if I could only learn to expect the unexpected.

Has anyone seen the print error cover of Fantastic Four #110 with a UKPV cover price? There is a correctly printed UKPV cover, but I have not seen one otherwise.. A very small polling sample of the US eBay auctions give a 12:1 relationship. So, the error was corrected but not early enough to trash the number already printed. It makes me wonder if the printers buried the misprints amongst the correct version or maybe MARVEL did it. Steve print

Many more had spine rolls showing a partial 25¢. The one I included was the clearest example. SEC

Stephen, thank you for being ≈first, it makes it easier for the rest to follow. I remember reading about the sticker-ed covers and highly suspected you were the author. I did some more research and came to an almost identical conclusion. The only difference is the sequence of shipping dates shows the 6p printed covers were after the 8p covers. The 8p covers were on-sale in the first two weeks of August and the 6p printed covers were on-sale in the last two weeks of August. Marvel's November 1971 (domestic) issues were published in a 52 page, giant size, square bound format with a 25¢ cover price. The price and page count was increased from 15¢ and 36 pages from the previous month. And with the following month the page count returned to 36 pages and the price went to 20¢ and continued until May 1974. The same November 1971 issues also had UKPV. For The Amazing Spider-Man #102, The Avengers #93, Daredevil #81, The Incredible Hulk #145, Iron Man #43, Sub-Mariner #43 and Thor #193 the printed price was 8p. For some reason the price was not acceptable and a 6p sticker was placed over the 8p. The sticker could have been applied before shipping or once received in the UK, although the near uniformity of application of the sticker indicates the correction was completed at the printer's site prior to shipping. Examining the shipping dates for possible production sequences, shows the titles affected were earliest, while later November 1971 issues, such as Amazing Adventures #9, Conan the Barbarian #11, Fantastic Four #116 and Where Monsters Dwell #12 were correctly printed with a 6p cover price. At the time neither Captain America nor Creatures on the Loose had UKPV variants. Looking at the historical exchange rates does nothing to formulate a hypotheses about the sticker price correction and only serves to highlight the UKPV were sold at a lower price, with the 8p equaling 19¢. As the compilation of graphics show (below), there are 21 clippings with 8p cover price. Most of which show obvious residue or damage where the sticker was removed. There are 6 examples with the 6p sticker still in place. 1 of which does not completely obscure the printed 8p beneath. There are 2 examples showing the sticker shadow on the inside front cover. I would be very interest to see any undamaged 8p covers and more importantly the inside front cover of any undamaged 8p priced cover. So if any owner of the above issues can supply such images, it might just cloud the mystery more:) Steve

Hi Stephen, Did you ever do any research on the November 1971 size and price bump of some of the Marvel line? It looks like some of the UKPVs were printed with 8p, but post printing a 6p stick was placed to obscure the 8p price. I have found evidence of some titles, including Amazing Spider-man #102, Avengers #93, Daredevil #81, Incredible Hulk #145, Sub-Mariner #43 and Thor #193 with both prices. Almost always on the 8p there is damage evidence of a sticker removal. I have done a half dozen searches on the forums, but I am not getting an acceptable return on my query.

A small update at the GCD, now has the indicia scan of Tales to Astonish # 43, No Price variant.

Great reference, easy to understand. I make use of it often.

It took awhile, but the 12c copy with a bold font has been removed from the GCD. Changes to the base index are waiting approval. I did additional searches for parent images and could not locate a single one. Any I found appeared to be the same as the GCD or derived from it.