conditionfreak

Is there another "club" here, that has anywhere near 623 pages?

And a second tier character at that.

Don't know if you'd call this heating up , but 7 bids and it's been selling well since he showed up in the NYCC Alex Ross secret wars teaser.

 

Maybe there's still time to buy

I only have one of those, and I will sell it for $1 to anyone. Plus shipping.

One could only assume so. Since they are laid out at a comi-con.

Laying those books out like that, and posting the pic on the internet. Might just be the worst business sense I have ever seen in this hobby.

Well, my one copy of MTU #1 just lost 8/10th's of its value.

Oh well. I didn't speculate on that one anyway.

. Depends on the issue. And the price.

 

If you are waiting for a Showcase #22 with white pages. You might be waiting quite awhile.

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

And besides. My definition of cream colored, is often not CGC's definition of cream colored. They are both opinions. Not facts or laws of nature.

 

And whatever happened to "tan/off white"? Is that different than "cream/off white"?

 

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

 

 

Do you prefer the girl next door to be white, off white, or tan?

I prefer tan. But if the presentation is good. I'll take any of the above. I won't take brittle though. I don't want to hurt anyone.

Is there a link where one can see the difference between what CGC defines as white, off white, cream, tan, etc?

Don't know if you aware of this. But there are "sample" cards out there. That show the different variations. You can put the card next to the pages of a book, and compare the pages to the various shades on the card.

But those cards are not from CGC. Their are from Overstreet.

Off white sure looks cream to me (on these cards).

https://www.gemstonepub.com/p/88163/owl-card

. Depends on the issue. And the price.

If you are waiting for a Showcase #22 with white pages. You might be waiting quite awhile.

Of course I want a super model in my bed. But I'll settle for the girl next door, if she is nice looking and reasonable.

And besides. My definition of cream colored, is often not CGC's definition of cream colored. They are both opinions. Not facts or laws of nature.

And whatever happened to "tan/off white"? Is that different than "cream/off white"?

I have so many awesome bronze Batman's and Detective's (there are sooo many of them). That I don't know where to start. It seems silly to start with Bats 227 and Tec 400. Because they are legendary.

Maybe I'll find the time to scan many of the others.

Bazinga!

Well, I agree with Game of Thrones. Two episodes made me lose any interest in it.

I'm more of a "Tyrant", "Ray Donovan", or "Bing Bang Theory" kind of viewer.

I've never understood the allure of this TV show. But I admit I only watched two episodes of it, and I think that was during its first year on TV.

I just don't care much for zombies or anything similar. They bore me. Too slow and too easily defeated. I watched the "Night of the Living Dead" last night. For about ten minutes. Man, was that bad.

Now give me a good werewolf or vampire movie, and I'm there.

My humble ticket to the club.

Y'all are more childish than I am.

And that is sayin' something.

Let it go fellas. These are comic books.

 

Actually Alexander as of now cerebus is only more "valuable" than hulk 181 in exactly ONE grade.....A 9.4.

 

This isn't true, you know this isn't true, it's been explained repeatedly why this isn't true, but you keep on repeating things that aren't true.

 

Jaydog, why do you keep doing this? It has been explained why this isn't true, yet you keep repeating it as if it is.

 

Why?

 

Are you aware you're doing it? Are you a student of propaganda, which says to just lie, lie, lie, and the longer and more boldly and often you lie, the more likely it is to be believed?

 

What you have said IS NOT TRUE. The 9.2 price you're comparing is from 2005, and you're comparing it to a price from 2014. You CANNOT make that comparison without including that information. It is DISHONEST to continue to do so.

 

If a 9.6 shows up, do you think it will sell for LESS THAN a 9.4? If a 9.8 shows up, do you think it will sell for LESS THAN a 9.4?

 

If you are interested in being taken seriously around here, stop repeating things that are patently untrue.

 

So essentially the pro-cerebus argument at this point is that those 3 highest graded cerebus 1's that have sold three times in ten years for up to 10k, warrant the book being ranked higher on overstreet's list.

 

There are five 9.4 Cerebus #1s, not three. The book has sold four times, as recorded at GPA, in ten years, not three. Details matter.

 

And as stated multiple times, in multiple ways, no, that is NOT the argument that is being made. GPA data is just one source that the OPG uses to determine values.

 

The fact that hulk 181 blows it out of the water in literally every single other grade, even though there are 50 times more copies of it out there apparently counts for nothing.

 

Hulk #181 does NOT "blow it out of the water" in any grade above 9.0.

 

The pro-cerebus folks

 

 

There aren't "pro-cerebus" folks. There are "pro-fact", "pro-reason", "pro-logic" folks.

 

don't care to acknowledge the great likelihood that those three 9.4 cerebus 1's, when available, get bid up by fans who are chasing "single highest graded" books as trophy pieces for their collection.

 

So? Is demand more or less valid based on why it exists? "Oh, THAT price doesn't count, because he's buying it as a trophy piece!"...?

 

And "single highest graded" means there is ONE copy at the highest grade. "Single" refers to the quantity of the slabs, not the quality of the height.

 

Kind of like that 9.6 GL 76. Or even the 9.9 ASM 194 that went for 5k, I believe on heritage recently. A 9.8 of the same ASM 194 drops all the way down to about $850. Methinks a similar phenomenon would explain why cerebus 1 is such a non factor in every single grade that isn't the single highest grade....

 

No. It doesn't work that way.

 

So let's talk about those "single highest graded" book collectors. What were they willing to pay for that in a hulk 181. $150k is what they were willing to pay. Sorry folks, it is an apt comparison.

 

Sorry, Jaydog, but it's not. But you keep repeating it, and I'll keep disputing it.

 

For whatever reason, cerebus 1 is not available past a 9.4. For cerebus a 9.4 is the "single highest grade".

 

That's not what "single highest grade" means.

 

For hulk 181 it is a 9.9.

 

That IS what "single highest grade" means. Because there's a SINGLE copy in that grade.

 

Hulk 181 had a boatload more chances to yield a 9.9 because it has a far, far greater print run than cerebus.

 

A "boatload"?

 

I don't think you really understand what the 9.9 and 10 grades really mean.

 

And what does hulk 181 go for in the second highest grade ? A 9.8 just went for about 12k if I'm not mistaken. Let's please not try to have our cake and eat it too by hyping up how "rare" and "important" cerebus 1 is to justify what it sells for, and then whine about how there's no sales data and point to mysterious, off the books sales that only overstreet knows about to explain your position.

 

You just contradicted yourself in one breath.

 

If it's rare, it's not going to have a lot of sales data. Not "no." Just not much.

 

And you are mischaracterizing the situation for your own argument yet again: OPG doesn't use "mysterious, off the books sales"...there's nothing "mysterious" or "off the books" about it: GPA isn't the sole source of information that the OPG uses.

 

How do you think Overstreet came up with prices for 3 decades before CGC and GPA existed?

 

~ ahem ~

 

Continuing on....

 

And then simultaneously knock hulk 181 for being so plentiful and then disregard its top sales in its respective top grades because they are not literally "the identical" grade as cerebus' top grade (being only a 9.4). If you really think cerebus 1 is worthy of swimming in hulk 181's waters, then let it, and let's see what happens.....

 

I have to say this again: comparing "top grades" is not appropriate when those top grades are not the same

 

"The top grade for Book X is 6.5, and the top grade for Book Y is 9.8, so it's valid to compare the value of a 6.5 against a 9.8, because they're both "top grade."

 

That is self-evidently false.

 

You use the language of the propagandist very well, Jaydog. You use emotionally charged words like "hyping" and "whine" and "mysterious" and "knock"...none of which anyone has done.

 

This has been a sober discussion, and no one has resorted to hyperbole, speculation, and emotionally charged buzzwords to discredit the opposing argument except you and some of those making the same argument.

 

"Well, what if THIS, and what if THAT, and what if the OTHER??"

 

It's not about "What ifs"...it's about what IS.

 

So in an apples to apples comparison we have a cerebus 1 in the single highest grade get bid up to 9k recently. For hulk 181 the single highest grade gets bid up to 150k, four years ago, long after the book crashed and long before its recent and powerful resurgence.

 

It is not an "apples to apples comparison" to compare the value of a book in 9.4 to a book in 9.9.

 

Repeat: It is not an "apples to apples comparison" to compare the value of a book in 9.4 to a book in 9.9.

 

"Long after the book crashed"...?

 

Did you really just say...on this message board...that the value of Hulk #181 "crashed"...?

 

Really?

 

Then for the second highest grade (of which there are also only 3 copies) we have a cerebus 1 maaaaaaaybe go for 3k. But more likely 2500-2800, and all three of those are SS file copies. For hulk 181 the second highest grade (for which there are 79 copies) is 11-12k.

 

This is not a valid comparison. You cannot compare a 9.2 to a 9.8.

 

After that cerebus 1 drops like a rock in "value" while hulk 181 slowly tapers down, maintaining a four digit selling price all the way down to a 7.0, and raw, tattered rags with no MVS selling for close to 400, which is about what a VF raw copy of cerebus 1 last went for on ebay.

 

So which comic really is more "valuable"?

 

In 9.2 and above? Clearly, the Cerebus #1.

 

I thought we established this pages ago.

 

If you look only at the three highest graded 9.4 examples of cerebus 1 that have sold in 10 years versus the 350 copies of a 9.4 hulk 181 (a multiple of over 100x), then cerebus 1 is. But of course that would be downright silly if you were to do that. Wouldn't it be, overstreet?

 

Because if you compare the single highest graded copy of hulk 181 to the single highest graded for cerebus 1.....hulk wins. By a lot.

 

Comparing a 9.4 to a 9.9 is not a valid comparison.

 

Again: Comparing a 9.4 to a 9.9 is not a valid comparison.

 

If you compare sales of the second highest graded copies to each other .... hulk wins. By a lot.

 

Comparing a 9.2 to a 9.8 is not a valid comparison.

 

Again: Comparing a 9.2 to a 9.8 is not a valid comparison.

 

If you compare each book grade for grade (other than the single highest for each book)....hulk wins..... in every single grade, and by an ever expanding percentage as you go further down the grading scale.

 

To sum it up....hulk 181 wins.

 

This is not true, as has already been explained ad nauseam.

 

The last remaining crux of RMA (and a couple others) pro-cerebus 1 argument is a literalist's approach: "three highest graded 9.4 copies of cerebus 1 have sold for more than any one of the 350 copies of 9.4 hulk 181's have sold for, so overstreet got it right." They won't acknowledge the possibility of price dilution for hulk 181 in grade,

 

Words literally fail to express the depth of astonishment I feel at reading such a statement. You literally made my jaw drop when I read this statement.

 

No one "won't acknowledge the possibility of price dilution", because that is precisely WHY Hulk #181 is worth less. There is more SUPPLY.

 

That's the "supply" part of "supply and demand."

 

Jaydog, seriously man. Seriously.

 

even as they trumpet the stratospheric sales price of the ONE copy of the single highest graded 9.4 copy of cerebus 1 that just sold (for over 1000 LESS than it did five years ago), and salivate over what ONE 9.8 copy of a cerebus 1 might go for if it ever came to market. (On a side note, if that ever did happen, I wonder what that would do to the value of your 9.4's.... )

 

Please stop using propaganda words like "trumpet" and "salivate." You can make your point without resorting to propaganda, honest.

 

No, overstreet got it wrong. Very wrong. Because in the real world hulk 181 is the undisputed king of the BA, value-wise, importance to the hobby-wise, historical-wise, and every single other "wise" you can think of. When hulk 181 tanked it literally took the entire Bronze Age with it.

 

In "the real world", Cerebus #1 in 9.2 and above is worth more than Hulk #181. Period.

 

When did Hulk #181 tank? (Nevermind, you don't answer direct questions anyways.)

 

Cerebus 1 meanwhile is a foot note. A novelty. A curiosity. If the book suddenly tanked in value over night it wouldn't even cause a ripple in the market. Does that mean the book is a piece of junk and has no value ? Obviously not. Clearly it has its fans, devotees, and passionate collectors. And that is never a bad thing for the hobby. Just let's not lose sight of the big picture and common sense. The OP originally began this thread questioning the book's place on overstreet's top BA list ahead of hulk 181. For all the reasons cited above, his point is well taken. Thanks for reading.

 

-J.

 

Yes, let's please not lose sight of the big picture and common sense.

 

Cerebus #1 is a more valuable book than Hulk #181 in high grade, for all the reasons already well explained. No "what ifs". No hyperbole. That is the reason why it is in the top BA list ahead of Hulk #181: because it is worth more in high grade.

 

The numbers don't lie.

 

I just do not want to imagine that you actually believe all of this.

 

 

Thank you RMA, you did not fail to disappoint. But before I leave you to this thread and your beloved copy of Cerebus 1, I will say this...

 

1) Prior to ebay, GPA, the internet, and cell phones, Overstreet relied on reports from dealers and LCS for its data. Guess what dude, it's 2014 now. He MAY still get SOME info that way still, but the vast majority of data is readily available to the public, and easily verifiable by anyone in this day and age.

 

2) The most recent sale of a Hulk 181 beats anything a Cerebus 1 has ever sold for in a 9.2. Don't have any public sales in a 9.2 for a Cerebus 1 in nearly 10 years? That's not Hulk 181's problem. Anything you "think" a 9.2 would go for now is just speculation. But estimates have been 2500-2800, based on the recent, verifiable sale of an 8.5 (fourth highest graded) which could barely eek out a meager $850.

 

3) When did Hulk 181 crash? Remember when a 9.8 was going for 20 grand? Oh, okay.

 

4) People don't pay a premium to have the highest graded example of a book, regardless of what that "highest grade" might be? Really RMA? For someone who purports to carry the torch for "facts" and "truth", you are so frequently WRONG it boggles the mind. Instead of seizing on minutiae to distract from the point, let's try staying on it: New Mutants 98, 10.0 anyone? GL 76, 9.6? Hulk 181, 9.9? ASM 194, 9.9? Avengers 4, 9.6? All of these "single highest grade" copies sold for EXTREME multiples of their next highest graded counterparts. Hey my man, just out of curiosity, what do you think that "highest graded" Action 1, 9.0 on ebay will go for? You think the buyer will end up paying a premium for that? Do you think that it will matter to him that there's another 9.0 on the census? It's still the "Single highest grade" available for the book. I didn't say the "single copy with the highest grade". See the difference between the two terms now?

 

So why do you think this is not a phenomenon that is in fact, very real and palpable, and why do you think it doesn't apply to the ONE grade (the highest), that Cerebus 1 currently out-sells Hulk 181 for (and pardon me, FIVE copies in ten years, because that makes such a big difference to the point than three copies in ten years)?

 

Why do you think it doesn't apply? Because it is inconvenient to what you evidently need to believe about this book. You're right, no one needs to make a case for Hulk 181, the book stands on its own as one of the pillars of the entire hobby. Deal with it. It's the Cerebus 1 that needs the apologists, qualifiers, bargaining, excuse-making and a dozen caveats for it to have any kind of relevance beyond the collections of die hard devotees. Which is, as I said before, also good for the hobby, but not in the same way that Hulk 181 is good for the hobby, and not on anywhere near the same level.

 

You can go on and on about how the 5 copies of Cerebus 9.4 are "worth" more than a hulk 181 in a 9.4, because at this point, that's all you have left to hang your hat on I get it.

 

But under no circumstances could any unbiased, reasonable person say that Cerebus 1 is more "valuable" than Hulk 181.

 

-J.

 

 

 

 

I've already addressed all of this, and you remain incorrect. There's really nothing more that can be said about ground already covered.

 

I'm still waiting for your weighted analysis of Hulk #181 in all grades.

 

A diatribe against Cerebus #1 isn't a weighted analysis. I would like figures, in all grades, which is what an analysis is. Leave Cerebus #1 out of the picture, just focus on Hulk #181.

 

I am still interested in this information, if you are willing and able to give it.

 

Just wanted to be in the longest post/quote I have ever seen.

I didn't read all of this Gobbledygook. But if I wanted to make money, I would take the 9.2 Cerebus #1.. If I wanted a book for my collection, and one I would love to show off to non-collectors. I would take the 9.2 Hulk #181.

Assuming the prices were similar.

A case could be made to buy the Cerebus #1 in 9.2, and immediately sell it so that I could buy a Hulk #181 in 9.4.

That IS the game, right?

Cerebus who?

Stan Lee crinkled my book while signing it.

Todd MacFarlane was awesome while signing.

Lurene Haines did a nude She Hulk for me, that is awesome. Very friendly and likable person.

Everyone else has just been normal and polite.

I would like to take the time to praise the boardie who sold this to me. It has the best possible home

 

 

That was part of my hoard at one time.

 

I don't think I sold it to you, though....

Forgot I had one of these. I got it from RMA in a fund raising drive here on the boards, if I remember correctly.

Double covers ALWAYS bring a premium.

I don't understand what the heck y'all are talking about with that 0.00 stuff.

Someone may not have an interest, and that is all well and good. But for those that do. They ALWAYS command a premium.

Go ahead. Find one and buy it for what a single cover goes for.

Along with the Giant Sized X-Men 1 annual. I would recommend these.

This one is getting hot, and is one of the most loved heroes. Can't go wrong if you get a good price.

This one is just tough to find. Very tough in higher grades.

I worry about them being glued instead of stapled. Seems that would deteriorate faster than a staple would pull.

Giant Size X-Men #1 should be on your list. But it is relatively expensive.

I guess you are looking for flying disks (flying saucers), and not spaceships. Are these supposed to be "spaceships"? Or just futuristic aeroplanes?

Seems that the term "flying saucer" didn't come about until the late 40's.

But anyway. Here is a 1940 comic.

Since it credits Neal Adams and Murphy Anderson for the cover. Does that mean that Anderson may have taken the photo?

I don't have a raw copy to check for any photo credit. My guess is that it was just an old stock photo that was used, and perhaps no one knows who actually took it. Looks to be an early 70's photo though. So maybe Anderson did take it.

Speaking of partial photo Superman covers, by Neal Adams. I accidentally bought two of these in an auction. But I'm okay with that.