Page quality

[Guest]

Prior to reading this month's CBM, I was unaware that the blended page quality notations such as OW-W referred to page edge color first (the OW) and the page itself second (the W). This is from a Steve Borock response in the ask CGC section.

 

Am I the only one who didn't know this?

 

From now on, I'll be less picky about W vs OW-W and put more emphasis on the difference between OW (meaning whole page OW) and OW-W (meaning edges OW).

[blowout]

........no i had no idea either..........but that's not surprising since we know very little about cgc's grading criteria.........and who's fault is that?...........

[Guest]

I was astonished that this point, which represents what the case notation means viv-a-vis page quality had slipped me by. I simply thought OW-W was intermediate between W and OW.

[Rickdogg]

I didn't know either. I thought it meant from outer pages (OW) to inner pages (white). I guess i was on the right track

[chromium]

news to me.... thanx for the heads-up

[blowout]

".....notations such as OW-W referred to page edge color first (the OW) and the page itself second (the W). "

 

....now that i think about this it doesn't sound quite right...........the first note is the edge and the second is the page...........i have seen many books over the years that have had tan edges, but when the book is opened they have pure white pages, can't say i've ever seen this on a cgc label though.......

 

....has anyone else seen a cgc book with TAN - WHITE pages???

[Guest]

I've seen tan to off-white. That always kind of mystified me until I read Steve Borock's response to the letter to CGC in CBM.

[fantastic_four]

Page edge? Does that mean the margins around the panels, or the actual edges visible from the outside of the comic?

 

It's gotta mean the margins around the panels. I thought for sure it meant that some parts of the interior were off-white and others were white, or that in other cases it was the midpoint between white and off-white as others have suggested. I have seen many, many comics with interiors that were white in some areas of the book and off-white in others, including such a mixture on individual pages.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

Doc: I've seen tan to off-white. That always kind of mystified me until I read Steve Borock's response to the letter to CGC in CBM.

 

I may be restating what Steve said in the letter (keep in mind I have not read it), but imagine a book that has been stored in dark and dry box with other books all tightly packed together with NO bags or boards. The edges of the books would be exposed to oxygen more than the inside pages. So oxygen can be a major contributing factor to a book that has tan edges and off-white inside pages.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

blowout: ........no i had no idea either..........but that's not surprising since we know very little about cgc's grading criteria.........and who's fault is that?...........

 

1-10 GRADING SCALE

10.0 Mint

 

9.9 Mint

 

9.8 Near Mint/Mint

 

9.6 Near Mint +

 

9.4 Near Mint

 

9.2 Near Mint -

 

9.0 Very Fine/Near Mint

 

8.5 Very Fine +

 

8.0 Very Fine

 

7.5 Very Fine -

 

7.0 Fine/Very Fine

 

6.5 Fine +

 

6.0 Fine

 

5.5 Fine -

 

5.0 Very Good/Fine

 

4.5 Very Good +

 

4.0 Very Good

 

3.5 Very Good -

 

3.0 Good/Very Good

 

2.5 Good +

 

2.0 Good

 

1.8 Good -

 

1.5 Fair/Good

 

1.0 Fair

 

.5 Poor

 

What are you talking about, does the above grading scale not have enough information for you? At least that leaves them room for inconsistancy

[blowout]

"Page edge? Does that mean the margins around the panels, or the actual edges visible from the outside of the comic?

 

It's gotta mean the margins around the panels."

 

...well ff, i took it too mean the edges, not the insides at all...........as MOS said in his post, unbagged comics expose their page edges to the air and are often a very different color to the iterior of the pages.................not much, if any transition from one color to the other...............

[fantastic_four]

Who gives a about the edges? They're BARELY visible. And assuming anybody cares about the edges, why list them on the label? They're visible through the slab.

 

This all sounds ludicrous...not that I'm disputing it, but putting the color of the edges on the label sounds like a dumb idea. I've gotta look at the new CBM.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

fantastic_four: Who gives a about the edges? They're BARELY visible. And assuming anybody cares about the edges, why list them on the label? They're visible through the slab. This all sounds ludicrous...not that I'm disputing it, but putting the color of the edges on the label sounds like a dumb idea. I've gotta look at the new CBM.

 

Coming from someone that does not consider book trimming to be restoration (arguing from the position that it is done at the press), your comment does not surprise me. Fact of the matter is, the edges are a part of the book, and most of us probably prefer books that have completely white to off-white pages, rather than tan to off-white pages. In it's latter stages, tanning is an incurable disease unless a comic book is deacidified, which I would imagine is damned expensive to have done professionally. Also in reference to page edges, little tiny edge tears can be hidden inside books, and IMO, such defects should be noted on CGC labels. It would seem that you give more weight to the cover when grading ("barely visible"), I can understand the philosophy of that, but the inside pages are also just as important. Case in point, If the front and back cover appear to be NM, and the inside pages are turning brown and brittle, then who give a about the NM cover, because the book is as good as dead. FF, I am guessing here, but I would guess that most people would like more grading notes to be released on the CGC label. People pay good money to have comic books graded, so what is wrong with wanting more printed information on the label about the book that would help explain the given grade?

[blowout]

".....why list them on the label? They're visible through the slab."

 

.......james, i think you answered your own question there.

 

.......the fact that you can ONLY see the edges through the slab means that cgc needs to distinguish between edge and interior color. if the edges were tan and thats all you can see, what would you think about the inside of the book..........

 

.....i can understand why cgc makes the distinction...........

[fantastic_four]

I would think they were whatever the label says they are. The edges I wouldn't need them to distinguish, since I can see them.

[blowout]

...so you're saying that they shouldn't note the edge color on the label, just the interior?

 

...just remember james, its pretty hard to see the edges of a book from a front cover scan.............

[fantastic_four]

I've never said trimming wasn't restoration, just that it wasn't a big deal. It's an attempt to get people off the imaginary pins and needles about restoration.

 

You're preaching to the choir about grading disclosure...I've been arguing for over 6 months in this forum about the fact that CGC should print the grader's notes and include them with every slab.

 

The reason this makes no sense to me is because of the uneven distribution of page color that many, many comics exhibit. If you've got a comic that has interior pages that are 50% cream and 50% off-white with cream edges, I'm assuming the label reads "cream to off-white." If the interior is 100% off-white with cream edges, then the book gets that same "cream to off-white" label? There's a big preservation difference between those two books! What percentage of the total page surface area are the edges--a full 1%, or is it even less than that?

 

I wanna know a lot about the 99% of the page area I can't see, not the 1% I can see.

[blowout]

.......i see your point james, and i do think the label note is misleading (the fact that many of us didn't realise what it meant atests to the fact)........

.......maybe the percentage idea is a good one, what % of the page is cream and what % OW.....that would make the notation a whole lot clearer..........

[fantastic_four]

If you don't mind, can you post the exact text of Borock's explanation about mixed-description page whiteness? If not I'll check it out at a comic shop, but I won't be able to get to a shop until next weekend.

[The_Man_Of_Steel]

Fantastic_Four: The reason this makes no sense to me is because of the uneven distribution of page color that many, many comics exhibit. If you've got a comic that has interior pages that are 50% cream and 50% off-white with cream edges, I'm assuming the label reads "cream to off-white." If the interior is 100% off-white with cream edges, then the book gets that same "cream to off-white" label? There's a big preservation difference between those two books! What percentage of the total page surface area are the edges--a full 1%, or is it even less than that? I wanna know a lot about the 99% of the page area I can't see, not the 1% I can see.

 

! I see your point and agree, but would modify your statement to I want to know a lot about 100% of the book (an inside tear or crease could could account for 1% of a book) If the notes do NOT tell otherwise (as in percetages as you have explained it), you could mistakingly assume that because a book has cream edges, that the inside pages are also cream colored because all you can see are the edges.

 

! From what you have said above, you do give a about the edges, because if there is a big differece between the two as you say (which I agree there is), then you don't want the 1% (referring to page edges) page surface area to dominate the description of page suppleness, and from what I have read at these boards (I don't own a CGC graded book), current notes do NOT make that preservation difference known, and therefore that 1% may be given more weight than it actually should be given.

 

When a preacher preaches does he NOT preach to himself