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"Superman" Silver Age Census

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Does anyone have a clue why there are so few Silver Age issues of Superman graded? I check finished auctions on ebay and there are very few. The CGC Census reflects the same lack of numbers. For example, I have a Superman 123 (Supergirl prototype) in CGC 7.5. It is the second highest and less than 10 copies graded. It is lack of interest? These books sold hundreds of thousands in their heyday.

 

:headbang:

 

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Probably due to a combination of a few reasons.

 

There are not a great many collectors of early silver age DC books

 

False. But I probably have no way to convince you of that

 

The value of SA DC books does not warrant the costs of grading the book

 

That's a laugher. Stick that 7.5 123 on CLINK and see how many multiples it gets. How many SA Marvels can get multiples of guide in 7.5?

 

The books from this period do not exist in quantity in High grade

True....so true

 

the DC books from this period are often in long time collectors collectons are they are not in the practice of slabbing their books as they do not intend on selling.

Guilty as charged! :shy:

 

 

 

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There are not a great many collectors of early silver age DC books

 

False. But I probably have no way to convince you of that

Well, relative to Marvel collectors I think it's true.

 

The books from this period do not exist in quantity in High grade

True....so true

So very very true.

 

the DC books from this period are often in long time collectors collectons are they are not in the practice of slabbing their books as they do not intend on selling.

Guilty as charged! :shy:

I really wonder if this is true. There are several dealers who are very good at knowing "where the bodies are", and they have sworn up and down that they don't know of any DC-collector equivalent of Tom Brulato or Doug Schmell who's sitting there with run after run of raw HG SA DCs. More likely a few gems are scattered here and there among many collections.

 

As we are hitting the period when we might see older babyboom collectors hitting retirement age (or dying :P), perhaps the next few years will provide the best evidence of just what's out there as collections get brought to market and sold off. But if you look at what's come out recently, the all too common story is that the collection will be mostly Marvels, like the Janowicz collection, or not really that consistently ultra-HG for the all-important pre-1963 issues (like the Warren Hall or Harry Banks collections).

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Probably due to a combination of a few reasons.

 

There are not a great many collectors of early silver age DC books

 

The value of SA DC books does not warrant the costs of grading the book

 

The books from this period do not exist in quantity in High grade

 

the DC books from this period are often in long time collectors collectons are they are not in the practice of slabbing their books as they do not intend on selling.

 

i agree w/ #1 & #3 but i'm skeptical about #4 and #2 is flat out off base. recent prices realized in heritage auctions for early silver superman (in particular) have been staggering- 3-4x guide for 9.2's. if the books are out there (???) this might bring them to light.

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Thanks to all those who posted a reply to my question on Silver Age Superman. I am a baby boomer who grew up in Brooklyn where comics were sold at every candystore and drugstore. Great distriubtion in those days. It was the world before Spider-man. I remember buying Action 252, Brave and the Bold 28, Greeen Lantern 1 among others. And of course Superman. If I had a dollar I bought 10 comics. These books are now fifty years old. High grade copies are rare. No one bagged or boarded a comic. We took them everywhere, rolled them up, traded, put them in our back pocket. The highest grade Superman I have is a CGC 8.5 Superman 113 which I bought from a dealer before CGC and subsequently had graded. (I would now never buy a high grade or key book from a dealer that was not graded by CGC.) I have a bunch of Silver Age DC I will submit to DC soon with the new economy grading tier for $100 or less value and 30 submitted at one time.

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Probably due to a combination of a few reasons.

 

There are not a great many collectors of early silver age DC books

 

The value of SA DC books does not warrant the costs of grading the book

 

The books from this period do not exist in quantity in High grade

 

the DC books from this period are often in long time collectors collectons are they are not in the practice of slabbing their books as they do not intend on selling.

 

i agree w/ #1 & #3 but i'm skeptical about #4 and #2 is flat out off base. recent prices realized in heritage auctions for early silver superman (in particular) have been staggering- 3-4x guide for 9.2's. if the books are out there (???) this might bring them to light.

 

The high sales prices are not for every title/issue and not available through every sales channel. Nor are the sales quite as high profile as they have been in the Marvel world. Last I knew, for example, the 9.2 Showcase 4 that's available has not sold. The result is that not all collectors with copies know what they might bring and others with copies that know that some high prices have occurred don't necessarily know whether the nice copy that they have will bring a price that would have tempted them to sell.

 

Regarding DC collectors I do think there is less interest in slabbing. I knew of Brulato and Schmell slabbing their books early on and attempting then to upgrade to higher graded slabbed copies to get the best. Nor were they the only ones. There is much less of this so far in the DC world and much less interest in selling (another reason to slab) such that the census is probably less complete for DC than it is for Marvel.

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The high sales prices are not for every title/issue and not available through every sales channel. Nor are the sales quite as high profile as they have been in the Marvel world. Last I knew, for example, the 9.2 Showcase 4 that's available has not sold.

That's not a fair example. Besides the fact that it is inexplicably one of the few 1950s SA DCs that has a 9.4 AND 9.6 copy in the Census, it has been pretty overpriced in the Guide for a long time. It is not a book that is going to command multiples in 9.2. Also, the fact that Zaid has pretty much continuously had it on sale since he bought it hasn't helped in generating some mystique and perceived scarcity for that book.

 

The result is that not all collectors with copies know what they might bring and others with copies that know that some high prices have occurred don't necessarily know whether the nice copy that they have will bring a price that would have tempted them to sell.

 

Regarding DC collectors I do think there is less interest in slabbing. I knew of Brulato and Schmell slabbing their books early on and attempting then to upgrade to higher graded slabbed copies to get the best. Nor were they the only ones. There is much less of this so far in the DC world and much less interest in selling (another reason to slab) such that the census is probably less complete for DC than it is for Marvel.

I think there is good evidence that prices on some DCs have risen to the point that long-time collectors who are not particularly big advocates of slabbing have gone ahead and slabbed and sold their books, and achieved very nice prices. Early HG Flash particularly springs to mind.

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That's not a fair example. Besides the fact that it is inexplicably one of the few 1950s SA DCs that has a 9.4 AND 9.6 copy in the Census, it has been pretty overpriced in the Guide for a long time. It is not a book that is going to command multiples in 9.2. Also, the fact that Zaid has pretty much continuously had it on sale since he bought it hasn't helped in generating some mystique and perceived scarcity for that book.

 

A 9.6, 9.4 and 9.2 is not exactly an overwhelming number of copies, and it includes 2 well known pedigrees. It also is the big dog book of the DC Silver Age so I'm comfortable with my characterization that it's viewed as a market indicator.

 

I think there is good evidence that prices on some DCs have risen to the point that long-time collectors who are not particularly big advocates of slabbing have gone ahead and slabbed and sold their books, and achieved very nice prices. Early HG Flash particularly springs to mind.

 

Certainly some 10 cent DCs have come on the market for different reasons from different sellers, including some who sold to take advantage of the new prices . But it's been a few here and there rather than a large quantity. With as big a cut as Heritage asks for with the standard commission (buyers & sellers) it can be a bit of a discouragement for some who don't have connections or quantity to negotiate a good deal.

 

The last time a large quantity came on the market was Keith Marlow's collection (almost every DC war book) and there were hundreds raw copies that had to be slabbed. Without the decision to sell to help pay for college for his kids, they would not have been graded.

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Getting back on topic, I think the strong prices realized for early HG SA Supermans and Actions is definitely driving more supply into the market. I just noticed in the preview for the Heritage November Signature auction that there are some pre-1963 SA 9.4 Actions and a 9.2 Superman.

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The high sales prices are not for every title/issue and not available through every sales channel. Nor are the sales quite as high profile as they have been in the Marvel world. Last I knew, for example, the 9.2 Showcase 4 that's available has not sold.

That's not a fair example. Besides the fact that it is inexplicably one of the few 1950s SA DCs that has a 9.4 AND 9.6 copy in the Census, it has been pretty overpriced in the Guide for a long time. It is not a book that is going to command multiples in 9.2. Also, the fact that Zaid has pretty much continuously had it on sale since he bought it hasn't helped in generating some mystique and perceived scarcity for that book.

 

Tim, I'm not entirely sure how my having this one copy for sale during the last couple of years has hurt its mystique or perceived scarcity. Unlike some of the other dealers I haven't shopped the book around so that it appeared in Heritage, Hakes, Mastro, ComicLink in successive auctions. I believe I have offered it just once in Hakes and in no other auction in 3 years. It is listed on my site and in my ebay store, and that's it. Anyone who actually knows something about comics at that level would know it is the only 9.2 and that I am the one who has it.

 

In the three years since I have owned the book, only one copy has been graded that is even close, and that is the 9.6. That copy is not publicly for sale. Neither is Metro's 9.2 copy. I don't believe even a 9.0 has surfaced yet. That would seem to me to very clearly indicate that scarcity is more than just perceived, it is fact.

 

What has stopped its sale is the price, not the lack of desire on the part of collectors. Sad to say, but true, not too many people can afford a book in the $90k - $125k range.

 

You're just jealous. :makepoint::baiting:

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The high sales prices are not for every title/issue and not available through every sales channel. Nor are the sales quite as high profile as they have been in the Marvel world. Last I knew, for example, the 9.2 Showcase 4 that's available has not sold.

That's not a fair example. Besides the fact that it is inexplicably one of the few 1950s SA DCs that has a 9.4 AND 9.6 copy in the Census, it has been pretty overpriced in the Guide for a long time. It is not a book that is going to command multiples in 9.2. Also, the fact that Zaid has pretty much continuously had it on sale since he bought it hasn't helped in generating some mystique and perceived scarcity for that book.

 

Tim, I'm not entirely sure how my having this one copy for sale during the last couple of years has hurt its mystique or perceived scarcity. Unlike some of the other dealers I haven't shopped the book around so that it appeared in Heritage, Hakes, Mastro, ComicLink in successive auctions. I believe I have offered it just once in Hakes and in no other auction in 3 years. It is listed on my site and in my ebay store, and that's it. Anyone who actually knows something about comics at that level would know it is the only 9.2 and that I am the one who has it.

 

In the three years since I have owned the book, only one copy has been graded that is even close, and that is the 9.6. That copy is not publicly for sale. Neither is Metro's 9.2 copy. I don't believe even a 9.0 has surfaced yet. That would seem to me to very clearly indicate that scarcity is more than just perceived, it is fact.

 

What has stopped its sale is the price, not the lack of desire on the part of collectors. Sad to say, but true, not too many people can afford a book in the $90k - $125k range.

 

You're just jealous. :makepoint::baiting:

Mark, I'm not criticizing you, just explaining my theories on why the 9.2 Showcase 4 hasn't moved at your asking price. You're correct that the market for high-5-figure SA DCs is miniscule, and that's definitely one factor. Because it's not only not the highest graded, but not even the 2nd highest graded, that took collectors such as myself out of the market immediately.

 

By the way, I think that having it on your site and eBay stores definitely constitutes "continuously on sale". Not as egregious as shopping it on different sites continuously or on one site continuously (ala Heritage), but in my opinion it helps to reduce the impression of scarcity that is so important for books of this genre in this kind of dollar range.

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and Tim has a point... when I drool over a book I keep seeing on a site, the longer it sits there makes me less likely to pull the trigger. Why should I? No one else has either... But perhaps, if I suddenly saw your 9.2 (for example) in an auction, I might get more of an urgent need to lock up the 3rd bext copy while I had the chance.

 

I think thats what Tim is saying.

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and Tim has a point... when I drool over a book I keep seeing on a site, the longer it sits there makes me less likely to pull the trigger. Why should I? No one else has either... But perhaps, if I suddenly saw your 9.2 (for example) in an auction, I might get more of an urgent need to lock up the 3rd bext copy while I had the chance.

 

I think thats what Tim is saying.

 

Honestly, I don't really get the logic you guys are applying to this type of circumstance but clearly it is your opinion so my opinion of that opinion really doesn't matter. (:

 

I had one offer at $75,000, and a nibble at $85,000. I would sell it for the latter.

 

To be perfectly honest, my asking price of $125k is absurd. I don't believe the market supports this book at 3x guide (2x Guide, yes), but I just keep it at that for fun and because I can! :P:devil:

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and Tim has a point... when I drool over a book I keep seeing on a site, the longer it sits there makes me less likely to pull the trigger. Why should I? No one else has either... But perhaps, if I suddenly saw your 9.2 (for example) in an auction, I might get more of an urgent need to lock up the 3rd bext copy while I had the chance.

 

I think thats what Tim is saying.

If it was a no reserve auction, where you know if you don't buy it someone else will, then yes.

 

I'm saying several things, one of which is the element you identify. As you say, a book that's on sale and which sits there and sits there and doesn't sell loses some of its allure, because it becomes clear that no one else is willing to buy it at that price. This does two things. First, it inhibits my wanting to buy it, because it makes me think that no one wants the book at that price, so why should I be the biggest sucker and buy something no one else wants. Also, if I bought it at that price, I'd never be able to sell it and recoup my purchase price either. If the current owner couldn't sell it, why would I ever be able to? Contrast this with a book which flies off the shelf when it's listed, which implies pent-up demand at that price (which may be illusory, because it may just be one single nut, but appearances are everything in sales & marketing).

 

Second, if I continue to let it sit there, perhaps the owner will eventually reduce his price to move it, because he will get tired of having his capital sunk into a non-appreciating, non-income generating asset.

 

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