A little Help with this AF #15

[sfilosa]

I would think that you could get 25-35% of the price of a non-restored book in that CGC grade. From your scan it looks pretty nice.

 

More than likely, the book had Marvel chipping / tears which is why it was trimmed. The sorry part is that CGC doesn't downgrade much for these manufacturing defects so it's quite possible that the book would have received close to the same grade if it hadn't been trimmed.

[rob_react]

Someone (Rob?) did an excellent example of demonstrating that using DD#1 as I recall.

 

http://comics.drunkenfist.com/archive/2003_06_15_archive.shtm

[PovertyRow]

My concern is while I know that trimming is a defect, is it better/worse than having had the book restored??

 

Bottom line? Only you can decide that for yourself if you are thinking in terms of collectability.

 

In terms of resale value, trimmed does tend to be low on the list.

 

While I am opposed to any form of restoration except when required for prevention of deterioration, I actually think that minor trimming is a lesser form of evil than many other types of non-reversible resto. C'mon, we all have seen the threads that show how multiple copies of a single issue can come direct from the printer in varying sizes. Someone (Rob?) did an excellent example of demonstrating that using DD#1 as I recall.

 

I don't like removal of a "part" of the comic, but as long as it is pretty minor I don't think I'd penalize the value of a minorly trimmed issue, even on three sides, vs other non-reversible resto. Whether it was trimmed at the printing plant or trimmed later you can still have a trimmed comic that is labeled as restored that is the same dimensions as an untrimmed copy.

 

Hey! I am just telling you where trimmed books stand, price-wise, rather than offwering my opinion of where they should stand. Trimming tends to be less desireable than most other types of restoration, probably because a part of the book is actually removed permanently. There is no un-restoring a trimmed edge.

[Warlord]

My concern is while I know that trimming is a defect, is it better/worse than having had the book restored??

 

Bottom line? Only you can decide that for yourself if you are thinking in terms of collectability.

 

In terms of resale value, trimmed does tend to be low on the list.

 

While I am opposed to any form of restoration except when required for prevention of deterioration, I actually think that minor trimming is a lesser form of evil than many other types of non-reversible resto. C'mon, we all have seen the threads that show how multiple copies of a single issue can come direct from the printer in varying sizes. Someone (Rob?) did an excellent example of demonstrating that using DD#1 as I recall.

 

I don't like removal of a "part" of the comic, but as long as it is pretty minor I don't think I'd penalize the value of a minorly trimmed issue, even on three sides, vs other non-reversible resto. Whether it was trimmed at the printing plant or trimmed later you can still have a trimmed comic that is labeled as restored that is the same dimensions as an untrimmed copy.

 

Hey! I am just telling you where trimmed books stand, price-wise, rather than offwering my opinion of where they should stand. Trimming tends to be less desireable than most other types of restoration, probably because a part of the book is actually removed permanently. There is no un-restoring a trimmed edge.

 

I didn't really disagree with you, just ventured my opinion on where I stand on trimming. Not that I've searched for older comments, but in the months I've been reading these forums I don't recall anyone else chiming in with anything positive to say about trimming vs other resto.

 

Of course there is no un-restoring a trimmed edge, but part of my contention is that a "trimmed" comic can have dimensions greater than an untrimmed comic, so what's the big deal? If the trimming results in making the comic smaller than the general population of untrimmed comics then I think it's gone too far and that would become less desirable even for me.

 

And I do agree that non-reversible resto is less desirable (in general I think, and to me) than is reversible resto. Tear sealing is one type of resto that I find harmless because I believe it to be fully reversible.

 

But I'd put any color touch but for the most minor of touches in the same camp as trimming, unless there exists the ability to reliably remove the color touch without damage to the comic. (Is that possible? Maybe if the CT is water based ink/paint/whatever?)

 

[Warlord]

BTW, I own one trimmed comic so I have acted on my opinion that minor trimming is not significantly less desirable than other non-reversible types of resto.

 

 

[Kessel1-migration]

Thanks for all of the different comments.

While I recognize that trimming is considered a defect, it just seemed that a book that had restoration, i.e. color touch, tear seal and pieces added would be valued considerable less than market value for a simlar grade, while it appears that a trimmed book is almost considered worthless. If collectors are willing to buy a restored comic it seems almost hypicritical that they would shun or overlook a book that has had minor trimming while the rest of the book remained original.

I had purchased this book knowing it had been trimmed (didn't really bother me) I wanted to know what value I could place on this book given it's condition. For that reason I have placed it on Ebay to see what kind of "value" it can garner.

 

Take a look and follow it's progress if you would like.

 

AF 15 - CGC 6.5 Trimmed

 

Thanks for playing!

[Warlord]

Thanks for all of the different comments.

While I recognize that trimming is considered a defect, it just seemed that a book that had restoration, i.e. color touch, tear seal and pieces added would be valued considerable less than market value for a simlar grade, while it appears that a trimmed book is almost considered worthless. If collectors are willing to buy a restored comic it seems almost hypicritical that they would shun or overlook a book that has had minor trimming while the rest of the book remained original.

I had purchased this book knowing it had been trimmed (didn't really bother me) I wanted to know what value I could place on this book given it's condition. For that reason I have placed it on Ebay to see what kind of "value" it can garner.

 

Take a look and follow it's progress if you would like.

 

AF 15 - CGC 6.5 Trimmed

 

Thanks for playing!

 

I don't think I'd go so far as to use the terms trimmed books and "considered almost worthless" in the same sentence.

 

Anyway, here's an AF #15 that looks really nice, but it's been trimmed, color touched, pieces added, the works. "Moderate" resto. Looks sweet. Brought just over $2K.

 

AF #15- CGC 7.5 Trimmed plus other resto

 

Looking at recent AF #15 sales on eBay, looks to me like resto is knocking about 25-40% off what the issue could have realized without resto. Perhaps the resto hit on this one isn't so big since about 1/3 of the CGC'd copies have had resto.

[Kessel1-migration]

Thaks for the info Warlord -

The thing that gets me is that CGC 7.5 that has been trimmed and restored gets a 7.5, isn't it the restoration that makes it look like that?? My book, while it has the trimming, gets a 6.5 which when you look just at the graded numbers would mean that my book should sell for less than the CGC 7.5 (P), when in fact it should be about the same in not a little more because it has no other restoration done to the book. The trimming on my book must have been done a long time ago as the corners on it arn't perfect but the rest of the book is great.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

Thanks Again

[Warlord]

Thaks for the info Warlord -

The thing that gets me is that CGC 7.5 that has been trimmed and restored gets a 7.5, isn't it the restoration that makes it look like that?? My book, while it has the trimming, gets a 6.5 which when you look just at the graded numbers would mean that my book should sell for less than the CGC 7.5 (P), when in fact it should be about the same in not a little more because it has no other restoration done to the book. The trimming on my book must have been done a long time ago as the corners on it arn't perfect but the rest of the book is great.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens.

 

Thanks Again

 

I hear what you're saying. Makes sense to me! Sadly your copy was almost certainly in nicer condition to begin with than the condition that the 7.5 copy started at.

 

One option for you to consider - you are already in the resto zone... should you have some professional resto done to shoot for a higher grade? Would the increase in the grade more than offset the lessened desirability from having more types of resto done to the book? In other words, if a little resto is bad, is more resto even worse? Or does it have almost no downside in desirability? Would those factors increase the value of the book more than the cost of the resto? And my uninformed guess is that your cost to have resto done to your copy to improve it beyond the 7.5 copy would be a lot less expensive that what was paid to have that 7.5 copy restored.

 

Thinking about this sort of stuff can cost you a lot of sleep.

 

In my case, my trimmed comic is low grade so it would take a lot of work to get it to look as nice as your copy already does. Mine has no other resto AFAIK. I've never gotten a quote, but I think that almost certainly the resto would cost more than the value of my comic would be increased.

[Aces]

For what it's worth...

 

If I was looking for a $2000 "semi-nice reading copy" of this book I'd rather have yours than the one on Heritage.

 

That one had a back cover that looked like it was in the toaster.

I bet the front is the same, but because of the dark colors you can't tell.

Maybe off-white pages but strong tanned covers...

 

Also yours looks more glossy, with better colors, and cleaner.

 

 

Edit: Gave you 5 stars.

[OldGuy]

Keep an eye on this auction if you want to see how much a trimmed AF15 goes for.

[BachelorOfComix]

Keep an eye on this auction if you want to see how much a trimmed AF15 goes for.

.........shill bid too.

[Kessel1-migration]

Oldguy - are you serious, that book has been trimmed?? How can you tell??

[fantastic_four]

Oldguy - are you serious, that book has been trimmed?? How can you tell??

 

 

...everyone remain calm...

[OldGuy]

Oldguy - are you serious, that book has been trimmed?? How can you tell??

 

I don't know. I do know though that the seller is well known for selling restored books.

[Warlord]

 

In my case, my trimmed comic is low grade so it would take a lot of work to get it to look as nice as your copy already does. Mine has no other resto AFAIK. I've never gotten a quote, but I think that almost certainly the resto would cost more than the value of my comic would be increased.

 

My AF#15 with resto is back from CGC. Trimmed as I expected. Also married! That's a surprise, I didn't even know it had been dating.

 

[Warlord]

Kessel1's copy: