Have a Cigar! MLJ Publishing and Golden Age Archie only! 22 22

[THB]

two more.

[Sqeggs]

Love these 1950s Archie annuals. 

[Sqeggs]

Pushing the limits of GA, but this was a fun little Juggy series. 

[Sqeggs]

Slabbed this copy of the first issue recently. 

[Patriot6]

On July 10, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Sqeggs said:

A Very nice 5.0 . I have had no luck finding this one in any grade higher than that. 

[Patriot6]

I know it's SA by many years, but I have nowhere else to talk about Archie. I even get laughed at at the LCS these days with my Archie addiction 

I am having a tough time finding an upgrade for this issue and I am wondering if any fellow Archie collectors have seen one? Also any idea where the OA for this cover is?

 

 

[Sqeggs]

2 hours ago, Patriot6 said:

I know it's SA by many years, but I have nowhere else to talk about Archie. I even get laughed at at the LCS these days with my Archie addiction 

I am having a tough time finding an upgrade for this issue and I am wondering if any fellow Archie collectors have seen one? Also any idea where the OA for this cover is?

 

 

Looks like your copy is the highest on the census.  Heritage auctioned a group of Archies in VF a few years ago.  Since there were 22 books in the lot, whether the 111 was actually VF would be hard to judge.  I can't recall ever seeing a high-grade raw copy in the flesh. 

[Patriot6]

4 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Looks like your copy is the highest on the census.  Heritage auctioned a group of Archies in VF a few years ago.  Since there were 22 books in the lot, whether the 111 was actually VF would be hard to judge.  I can't recall ever seeing a high-grade raw copy in the flesh. 

If it wasn't for the dust shadow I'd be content, but it bothers me. It's out there. Some of these Archies are tough tough tough in grade. 

 

[jimbo_7071]

I picked this one up on Heritage and don't have it in hand yet. There was no back cover photo, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm certain there was shill bidding because it jumped from $55 before the live auction to around $374 (via proxy bidding) when it came up live, and then a single live bid from me was enough to buy it. (In other words, the underbidder, bidding by proxy, just happened to be exactly one increment above the next highest bidder.)

[comicjack]

That has happened to me in the past just makes you wonder doesn't it 

[Robot Man]

5 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

I picked this one up on Heritage and don't have it in hand yet. There was no back cover photo, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm certain there was shill bidding because it jumped from $55 before the live auction to around $374 (via proxy bidding) when it came up live, and then a single live bid from me was enough to buy it. (In other words, the underbidder, bidding by proxy, just happened to be exactly one increment above the next highest bidder.)

Funny how that happens huh? In the state of TX it is legal for auction houses to shill their own auctions. I believe they can buy a lot outright from a consigned if it doesn't meet "expectations". This, combined with outrageous buyer and seller premiums have made me done with buying and selling through them. If I want to pay through the nose for that occasional book, I usually swim with the sharks in NY...

[Sqeggs]

On 7/22/2018 at 6:03 AM, jimbo_7071 said:

I picked this one up on Heritage and don't have it in hand yet. There was no back cover photo, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm certain there was shill bidding because it jumped from $55 before the live auction to around $374 (via proxy bidding) when it came up live, and then a single live bid from me was enough to buy it. (In other words, the underbidder, bidding by proxy, just happened to be exactly one increment above the next highest bidder.)

I'm not sure I follow.  Once the live bidding opens, they automatically enter all the proxy bids at once.  It's pretty common for the bid to jump substantially from where it was at the close of Internet bidding.

If you hadn't bid, wouldn't the highest proxy bid have won?  I've bid live many times where all I end up doing is bidding up a proxy bidder.  If they were routinely shilling, I would win more of those auctions than I do. 

So, I'm not sure I see why you are certain you were shilled.  But, I may be missing something. 

I also pretty frequently enter a proxy bid well above the last Internet bid and then wake up Monday morning to find that I've been outbid. Again, I've given them an opportunity to shill me, but they often don't take it. 

[Sqeggs]

On 7/22/2018 at 11:17 AM, Robot Man said:

Funny how that happens huh? In the state of TX it is legal for auction houses to shill their own auctions. I believe they can buy a lot outright from a consigned if it doesn't meet "expectations". This, combined with outrageous buyer and seller premiums have made me done with buying and selling through them. If I want to pay through the nose for that occasional book, I usually swim with the sharks in NY...

They offer a lot of books that are tough to find elsewhere, so I wouldn't want to close the door on their auctions.  As mentioned in the previous response, I'm not really seeing a lot of obvious shilling.  Now, of course, consignors may be shilling their own auctions by having their friends bid or by bidding through a second account.  Tough to avoid that on any venue.

Full disclosure:  I've consigned a significant number of books to them over the years.

[jimbo_7071]

On 7/23/2018 at 6:51 PM, Sqeggs said:

I'm not sure I follow.  Once the live bidding opens, they automatically enter all the proxy bids at once.  It's pretty common for the bid to jump substantially from where it was at the close of Internet bidding.

If you hadn't bid, wouldn't the highest proxy bid have won?  I've bid live many times where all I end up doing is bidding up a proxy bidder.  If they were routinely shilling, I would win more of those auctions than I do. 

So, I'm not sure I see why you are certain you were shilled.  But, I may be missing something. 

I also pretty frequently enter a proxy bid well above the last Internet bid and then wake up Monday morning to find that I've been outbid. Again, I've given them an opportunity to shill me, but they often don't take it. 

If I hadn't bid, the highest bid shown would have purchased the book. In any given auction, the highest bid wouldn't necessarily be the underbidder's max, it would be one increment above the next highest bidder's max.

What is suspicious about the bidding is that the highest bidder (prior to my bidding) was sitting at his max, which means that his max was exactly one increment higher than that of the guy below him. If two genuine bidders enter proxy bids, what are the odds that their maximum bids would be one increment apart? It could happen easily enough in live bidding, but the jump from $55 to $372 occurred prior to live bidding. The book was sitting around $55 (including the buyer's premium) for days, yet two bidders entered live proxy bids of about $348 and $360 (again, including the b.p.).

Either those two bidders happened to be remarkably close in their respective valuations of the book, or at least one of them knew what the other's max was.

It could be that the buyer created two shill accounts in order to bid the item up, or HA could have shilled the underbidder up to his max. At any rate, I tend not to believe in coincidences like that, especially considering that a similar scenario occurred with one of the other four books that I've purchased from Heritage.

Shill bidding is tough to prove, but shill bidding in an online auction is a felony under federal law regardless of what the laws are in Texas.

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/sports/i-team/ex-mastro-auctions-prez-sentenced-57-months-prison-article-1.2524590

Edited July 26, 2018 by jimbo_7071

[Sqeggs]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:33 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

If I hadn't bid, the highest bid shown would have purchased the book. In any given auction, the highest bid wouldn't necessarily be the underbidder's max, it would be one increment above the next highest bidder's max.

What is suspicious about the bidding is that the highest bidder (prior to my bidding) was sitting at his max, which means that his max was exactly one increment higher than that of the guy below him. If two genuine bidders enter proxy bids, what are the odds that their maximum bids would be one increment apart? It could happen easily enough in live bidding, but the jump from $55 to $372 occurred prior to live bidding. The book was sitting around $55 (including the buyer's premium) for days, yet two bidders entered live proxy bids of about $348 and $360 (again, including the b.p.).

Either those two bidders happened to be remarkably close in their respective valuations of the book, or at least one of them knew what the other's max was.

It could be that the buyer created two shill accounts in order to bid the item up, or HA could have shilled the underbidder up to his max. At any rate, I tend not to believe in coincidences like that, especially considering that a similar scenario occurred with one of the other four books that I've purchased from Heritage.

Shill bidding is tough to prove, but shill bidding in an online auction is a felony under federal law regardless of what the laws are in Texas.

http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/sports/i-team/ex-mastro-auctions-prez-sentenced-57-months-prison-article-1.2524590

Hard to tell, of course.  But when I can't be present for the live bidding, I've routinely won books for bids below my max.  So, I could have been shilled up, but wasn't.  With so many items being auctioned week after week, I think you're bound to see all kinds of odd bidding patterns that are just due to chance, rather than chicanery.

In this case, the dollar amounts involved seem pretty low for HA to engage in shilling.  On a $400 book, the BP is only around $8.  If the book would have sold for, say, $200, without shilling, they would only net an additional $4 or so.  Hardly seems worth it.

[jimbo_7071]

2 hours ago, Sqeggs said:

Hard to tell, of course.  But when I can't be present for the live bidding, I've routinely won books for bids below my max.  So, I could have been shilled up, but wasn't.  With so many items being auctioned week after week, I think you're bound to see all kinds of odd bidding patterns that are just due to chance, rather than chicanery.

In this case, the dollar amounts involved seem pretty low for HA to engage in shilling.  On a $400 book, the BP is only around $8.  If the book would have sold for, say, $200, without shilling, they would only net an additional $4 or so.  Hardly seems worth it.

I think you meant $80 and $40. That amount wouldn't mean much to Heritage; the difference in selling prices might be enough to make a consignor enter a shill bid, though. The odd bidding pattern could be a coincidence; like I said, shill bidding is tough for an outsider to prove.

[adamstrange]

On 7/25/2018 at 11:33 PM, jimbo_7071 said:

Either those two bidders happened to be remarkably close in their respective valuations of the book

This has happened a number of times with me where I've met the other collector and know that it's just two experienced observers who have similar thoughts on value.

[walclark]

10 hours ago, adamstrange said:

This has happened a number of times with me where I've met the other collector and know that it's just two experienced observers who have similar thoughts on value.

Sounds familiar.

[gino2paulus2]

The 1.5 has now been shipped out to the Takebot but I did manage to snag this pic before it left :)...

 

 

[Sqeggs]

22 hours ago, jimbo_7071 said:

On 7/27/2018 at 10:28 AM, Sqeggs said:

Hard to tell, of course.  But when I can't be present for the live bidding, I've routinely won books for bids below my max.  So, I could have been shilled up, but wasn't.  With so many items being auctioned week after week, I think you're bound to see all kinds of odd bidding patterns that are just due to chance, rather than chicanery.

In this case, the dollar amounts involved seem pretty low for HA to engage in shilling.  On a $400 book, the BP is only around $8.  If the book would have sold for, say, $200, without shilling, they would only net an additional $4 or so.  Hardly seems worth it.

I think you meant $80 and $40. That amount wouldn't mean much to Heritage; the difference in selling prices might be enough to make a consignor enter a shill bid, though. The odd bidding pattern could be a coincidence; like I said, shill bidding is tough for an outsider to prove.

Right!