How is this an 8.0??

[joe_collector]

And if I provide you with no less than a dozen links to threads where I criticize CGC--

 

Post away, as I'd love to see you hammering away at CGC with hyper-critical comments. On the other hand, I expect to see some watered-down BS, as usual.

[BachelorOfComix]

That's where I was looking before...still not seeing any 8.0 copies of #5. Can you give me a lot #?

Nevermind we're on the wrong page. You misunderstood my same bc comment.

[BachelorOfComix]

But where is the book that is the source of this debate???....

I thought the seller had perhaps used the wrong bc scan in the auction. I checked Heritage to see if the bc ad was the same. It was.

[ArAich]

[fantastic_four]

Post away, as I'd love to see you hammering away at CGC with hyper-critical comments. On the other hand, I expect to see some watered-down BS, as usual.

 

Ah, that's what I thought, it'd be a waste of time.

 

Can you define "hyper-critical" comment? If you mean negative, destructive criticism, then you're right, I don't direct that at anybody. I'd have to be an arrogant, rude [!@#%^&^] like you to talk about other people like they ripped off my grandma. Can't you see how ineffectual that kind of criticism is? When you display a total lack of respect the people or organizations you're criticizing, they usually ignore you. Critics do this to build themselves up, not help the target of their criticism to improve.

 

I'm truly interested in delving further into the type of criticism you find to be the best. I'm not being facetious, this has interested me since you started levelling it last year when you first got here.

[fantastic_four]

I'm an upbeat person, but I do admit it difficult to say anything positive about a hobby that is on yet another speculative bubble. Happens every 10 years, and each time I find myself looking at comics without the rose-colored glasses on.

 

THEN WHY DO YOU COME HERE?!?!?! All we get to hear is see your negative side! Ted Bundy and Hitler (extreme examples, sorry about that, I'm not likening you to them at all) were upbeat people, but they still had more prominent dark sides. All we get to hear is you complaining about how much comics sucks, how much comics movies suck, how much professional graders suck, how much everything sucks. If it all sucks--WHY DO YOU DWELL ON IT? Move on to the art forms where stuff DOESN'T suck!

 

Can we get a few threads about things you like? I'm not saying you never talk about that, but the post count in that vein is dwarfed by the doom-and-gloom.

[joe_collector]

We're two sides of the same coin; you kiss CGC arse and I kick it. Neither of the extremes is a good thing, and neither is being truly objective.

 

For example, in this case we have a book that some feel may be overgraded. I see a soiled back cover with deep creases, while you see a flat back cover with soiling patterns that emulate creases.

 

Who knows who's right and wrong? If a buyer sides with me, he may miss a nice, flat book with soiling patterns, while if he sides with you, he may receive a heavily creased POS that is clearly overgraded. There are risks to both sides, and you're not automatically "better" by taking the Pollyanna route.

[fantastic_four]

For example, in this case we have a book that some feel may be overgraded. I see a soiled back cover with deep creases, while you see a flat back cover with soiling patterns that emulate creases.

 

WRONG!!! I never said that I saw a flat back cover with soiling patterns that emulate creases!! I said it might be a flat back cover with soiling patterns that emulate creases and that you can't grade from a scan! I expressed doubt because I believed that evidence was lacking...that's the scientific method. You don't jump straight to theory, you present hypotheses. And when evidence is lacking, you withhold judgement.

 

 

Who knows who's right and wrong? If a buyer sides with me, he may miss a nice, flat book with soiling patterns, while if he sides with you, he may receive a heavily creased POS that is clearly overgraded. There are risks to both sides, and you're not automatically "better" by taking the Pollyanna route.

 

Is there somebody in this thread who has expressed an interest in buying this book? Bonds brought this up as a grading example...look at the name of the thread again. There aren't "sides" in an objective debate--only multiple hypotheses! To try to paint sides is inherently subjective!

 

I'm highly interested in exploring this "Pollyana" angle. How am I a Pollyana? Because I don't know how to present facts and opinions in a biased, disrespectful way that doesn't make people dislike me? Is that your path to effecting change--to beat the [!@#%^&^] out of other people's work you don't like?

 

I'm still left wondering...what's with the bulldog criticism? Do you get off on it, or do you think it helps?

[joe_collector]

I never said that I saw a flat back cover with soiling patterns that emulate creases!! I said it might be a flat back cover with soiling patterns that emulate creases and that you can't grade from a scan!

 

You do realize you can mince words words with the best of them?

 

I NEVER said it was definite that the book had creases, only that this was my opinion based on the scan. The same as your opinion was that back cover soiling could be the culprit. No one was speaking in absolute, 100% guarantees of their thoughts, but the fact remains that your impressions were CGC-positive, while mine (and other's) leaned towards CGC as the culprit.

 

Why is this so hard to see? It's like an ink blotch test, where I may see a car, while you see a building. No one's necessarily right or wrong, but it does tell a lot about what slant the person is taking with the image.

[fantastic_four]

You do realize you can mince words words with the best of them?

 

I mince the words you attribute to me. Try to get them right.

 

Let's move back to my watered-down criticism. How exactly do you think it is less effective than yours?

[sfilosa]

I'll settle this. The grade given by CGC is neither overgraded or undergraded. It is exactly the grade CGC has given it (a paraphrase from Lord of the Rings).

 

Actually, I have to give Neat Stuff credit for showing the back cover.

[garthgantu]

I think you're the first person to give Neat Stuff credit for *anything* on these boards... they're pretty universally condemned, here and on other boards, from what I've seen...

[OldGuy]

if you'll stop being a

 

I knew you'd come to see things my way.

 

Now you just need to start ignoring his responses and you'll be free! Watch how I do it.....

[fantastic_four]

I've been ignoring his posts for the better part of the last 6 months...in fact, as I'm sure he'll tell you if asked, I've PMed him several times asking him to stop responding to my posts unless he can stop being so narcissistic. Lately, though, I've felt he's been improving...I still hold out hope that he'll come around.

[davidking623]

I've been ignoring his posts for the better part of the last 6 months...in fact, as I'm sure he'll tell you if asked, I've PMed him several times asking him to stop responding to my posts unless he can stop being so narcissistic. Lately, though, I've felt he's been improving...I still hold out hope that he'll come around.

 

Fantastic Four that is the Spirit a lot of people need to have in my opionion.I think he really is a lot better than a lot of people realize! I for one enjoy him on the boards yes he does come across with his viewpoints but he never backs down from them either! Right, Wrong or Indiffrent you have to respect that.

 

Davidking623

[davidking623]

My Grade of this book looking at the back cover with only that to base my judgement on is I will say it is 4.5 at best!That is one exceptionally bad back cover!Im not questioning the experts that graded this book I am just saying how did it ever receive a 8.0 is way out there in my opinion!

 

Davidking623

[fantastic_four]

I for one enjoy him on the boards yes he does come across with his viewpoints but he never backs down from them either! Right, Wrong or Indiffrent you have to respect that.

 

I respect him having his viewpoints, but I absolutely abhor his tendency to never back down from them. Nobody's as "hyper-intelligent" as he thinks he is; that was such a naive thing for him to say, and it's why Pride is one of the seven deadly sins. Hamlet said it well to Horatio in Act 1, Scene 5 of Hamlet: "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

[OldGuy]

Fantastic Four that is the Spirit a lot of people need to have in my opionion.I think he really is a lot better than a lot of people realize! I for one enjoy him on the boards yes he does come across with his viewpoints but he never backs down from them either! Right, Wrong or Indiffrent you have to respect that.

 

Davidking623

 

I gave his CI ID five stars a year and a half ago. Apparently he's been off his meds for for about the last year though and has nothing but criticism and blanket disdain to offer.

[Rip]

Ouch!!!!! This is may be a worse overgrade than the Action 1.

Be careful on Quality control guys.

Like I've been saying, CGC has some problems on Golden Age grading.

Buy the book, not the number.

[duncan36]

No wonder he's punting the book on eBay post haste. Anyway whats the argument about, the book was clearly given a mistaken grade.