Has this been trimmed ??

[gary_crites-migration]

The book looks nice to me, but I can't help thinking that it may have been trimmed.

I'd hate to get this and have GCG give it a PLOD.

JIM #83

[Aces]

I've got problems with the grade as well...

 

F+

 

I think more like a VG+/VGF (4.5/5.0) if sent into CGC.

Way too much spine stress for a Fine.

I count at least 15 color breaking transverse stress marks on the spine and some are large.

 

[Tomega]

There are several problems here, unfortunately it is very difficult to tell all of them definitively from a scan only. From a cursory inspection of the scan, I would lean towards that it has been trimmed. The lines are far too straight on the right side of the cover and you cannot see any of the pages underneath it. Also, it is unlikely that edge would relatively perfect yet the rest of the comic is at best a 4.0. I think that the staple placement is a bit off ( specifically the lower staple) and may have been replaced. The coloration is a bit too bright and slightly off, I would think this was possibly cleaned and pressed. Bottom line, I would not touch this auction.

 

Tom

[Aces]

I was going to mention that cover looks awfully clean too.

 

 

[aardvark88]

JIM has not been trimmed. Some of these issues were miscut by Marvel off the press either taller or shorter than the average SA Marvel.

[comicgodcomics-migration]

This book looks exactly like all the other JIM #83's up online. If you look at Marvels Photo Journal Guide to comics, on page 154, It looks exactly like the book in question!!This book is not trimmed!! Check into it, and as far as this book being graded VG/FN, whoever left that message is on crack.This book is easily FN to FN+, If you can get this book for under $1000, go for it!!

[supapimp]

i agree, this book has not been trimmed....as for the grade i grade it a FN- 5.5.

[Aces]

Crack...?

 

I wonder what tomega is smoking...

"yet the rest of the comic is at best a 4.0"

 

After looking it over again I'd still say 5.0 (+/- 0.5) range.

But I'm a spine freak so...

 

 

[drbanner]

Can't tell definitively from the scan, but the top of the cover should overhang the interior pages.

 

How about this one (from the same seller)? No pages sticking out at the top right here either. Also, it's looking pretty suspicious up there on the top of the cover about 1" in from the spine...

 

[Aces]

Since I collect low/mid grade readers on these early Marvels (unlike most of you 9.0 and up HG boys around here ), alarm bells go off when I see a G to F book that has razor sharp outer corners and no overhang, or pages sticking out anywhere on the book.

 

I've owned many hundreds (thousands?) of G-F early Marvels and I can tell you the percentage that don't have just a little overhang or pages poking out somewhere on the book is like <5%. Very poor production quality back then...

 

I can't speak for the High Grades mind you, because I'm not rich enough to lay down $5000 for a single book (yet ). Those books are tighter and maybe the overhang doesn't stand out as much.

 

====

 

I just went through my early FFs (3-20/multi(2-4 each) copies of 6-20) and found three that didn't have overhang.

A 7, a 8, and a 17. Sure enough those were amoung the highest graded ones. 7 was Fine, 8 was FVF, and 17 was F/F+. Most of the rest were F-/VGFs down to VGs (3,4,5 were G+/G/GVG) and they all had some overhang on the top except for three that had it on the right side. I guess the tightness of better graded books helps prevent the overhang being exacerbated.

 

I have a scan of one of my FF 6's on hand:

 

As you can see overhang at the top...

[Tomega]

This book looks exactly like all the other JIM #83's up online. If you look at Marvels Photo Journal Guide to comics, on page 154, It looks exactly like the book in question!!This book is not trimmed!! Check into it, and as far as this book being graded VG/FN, whoever left that message is on crack.This book is easily FN to FN+, If you can get this book for under $1000, go for it!!

 

So are you the seller or just know the seller? Anybody who knows anything about trimming knows that only comparing only reference points is completely and utterly useless. I could show you 20 copies of the same issue with a much greater spacing between the comics code and the edge as well as pages sticking out - in fact there is a CGC 6.0 on eBay right now that has totally different spacing. The seller ( or should I say possibly you? ) specifically states that he thinks it may have been trimmed but then retracts it saying he compared to a in the Photo Journal - while this does show the seller is responsible it is also a total indication that he does not know how to spot trimming. In addition to taking into account the front and back overs, you have to look at the pages - if the pages are all cut the same size ( note I did not say cut straight) then the comic has been trimmed. Regardless whether or not the pages stick out past the cover , a standard 4 page wrap will produce pages sticking out in the center and decreasing as it goes outward towards the front and back covers. This can vary depending from what era the comic is from but I see it on most pre-1980 comics. There are a lot of other factors ( I am not even going to go into the top of the cover) to consider when detecting a trimming and there is not a single person on this board or anywhere else that can definitely say this book is or is not trimmed by simply looking at a scan. I specifically stated that I was leaning towards trimmed, not that it was definitely trimmed. I still lean towards trimmed although a closer look at the back cover does reveal some of the pages that appear to have that stacking effect I mentioned. Only one other person noticed the coloration of this comic. It is simply too white and I think it has been cleaned and possibly pressed. In fact I am more confident it has been cleaned then for the possibility it has been trimmed.

 

whoever left that message is on crack.

 

Crack...?

 

I wonder what tomega is smoking...

"yet the rest of the comic is at best a 4.0"

 

After looking it over again I'd still say 5.0 (+/- 0.5) range.

But I'm a spine freak so...

 

This book, in my estimation, is not a fine. I would still stick with my 4.0, possibly a 4.5, and , no offense, it would never pull a 6.5. I see 25+ spine stress marks and abrasions, possibly a 1/8 tear near the spine and Thor's hammer ( it may only be a sever stress mark), corner roundings, a crease in the bottom right hand corner of the cover, defects mid way up through the right side of cover, the back cover has some tears near the top, and multiple spine dings/stress. Couple that with potential impressions that may not be visible on the scan, I am confident that a 4.0/4.5 is accurate. There is no doubt that this book has tremendous eye appeal but that does not mean it will hit a 6.5 grade.

 

Just because I may disagree with the grade and possibility of restoration does not mean that I think the seller is anything less then a professional, responsible seller. I just think the grading is off and missed a few things - I think this is reflected in his grading on his TOS 39. It is stated as a 5.5 yet has a 1/2 spine split, a dust shadow or equivalent across the bottom, 1 inch round or better abrasion, foxing, possible water or moisture damage on the right side of cover, tan to creamy pages,large creases, possible tear or a severe color break on back cover ( on right side near the word "store" and towards the spine) , etc... The Overstreet Grading Guide states nothing higher then 4.0 should have 1 inch spine split with less accumulation of defects then this comic has, I would give it a 3.5. That is 2 grades off, the same as I thought the JIM 83 was.

I guess the saying is true - opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and everyone else's stinks.

 

Tom

 

 

[awe4one]

Can't tell definitively from the scan, but the top of the cover should overhang the interior pages.

 

How about this one (from the same seller)? No pages sticking out at the top right here either. Also, it's looking pretty suspicious up there on the top of the cover about 1" in from the spine...

 

 

I agree. The cut doesn't look straight either. Like somebody used an exacto knife and screwed up slightly. I'd be very suspect of the JIM #83 by looking at this comic.....

 

 

Jim

[DeadUncleBen-migration]

I am new here but I too have to agree this book(TOS #39) and the JIM #83 look very much like the top and outer edge have been trimmed.The accumulation of defects along the spine and bottom edges on the JIM #83 just doesn't fit with the undamged top and outer edges.No marvel chipping at all, razor sharp top corner but blunted bottom corner.Back cover has some edge tears but front does not.And the fact both copies from this seller have the same exact characteristics is troubling.Also cover of the JIM #83 looks like it may have been color touched.But without seeing the books in person and inspecting them you can't be certain but from these scans they do look trimmed.Also I always wonder why a seller who thinks he has semi high or high grade keys did not send them in to CGC for grading before selling them.If these books came back with the kind of grades he claims they are the money for grading would have been well spent on his part and would have lead to much higher ebay bidding.

[seank]

Where do you suspect color touch on the JIM?

[DeadUncleBen-migration]

The "M" in "Mystery" just doesn't look right to me ,the left hand edge of the letter.Also the very dark Blue in the Text boxes looks very blotchy but that may be the scan although no other area of the book looks like that. I don't know but if I was bidding that kind of money I would have some doubts.And i have to agree that Fine + is stratching it a bit.I call this a Fine - at best.

[Aces]

I agree.

I too never meant to imply the seller did any trimming himself, or was dishonest in any way.

 

The trimming might have been done 20-25 years ago.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

This book looks exactly like all the other JIM #83's up online. If you look at Marvels Photo Journal Guide to comics, on page 154, It looks exactly like the book in question!!This book is not trimmed!! Check into it, and as far as this book being graded VG/FN, whoever left that message is on crack.This book is easily FN to FN+, If you can get this book for under $1000, go for it!!

 

Whoa there...got kinda excited didn't we? Interesting first post, "welcome" to the boards!