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Problem with Qualified Grades and Signatures

47 posts in this topic

Seems to me like you are backpedalling.

 

Back to your first quote you are clearly suggesting that there is a risk of forgery with CGC books - at least "the same amount of risk of being faked as a dynamic forces autograph".

 

Being intimately familiar with the Signature Series process that is simply not true because Dynamic Forces signed books are not sealed in tamper-proof holders. CGC's packaging cannot realistically be reproduced and the holder cannot be opened and resealed.

 

Then you then went on to suggest that CGC employees "could" fake signatures before holdering the books if they wanted to...which is ludicrous considering that they have no reason to do it.

 

And then you suggested that disgruntled employees could undermine the process by forging signatures on their own books and selling them.

 

Kev

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Another MAJOR difference between CGC and Dynamic Forces is that DF is the authenticator AND the seller.

 

CGC is merely the authenticator and charges only a couple of extra dollars over the grading service for the authentication service.

 

Kev

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kevthemev vs. mushroom - what is this board coming to?

 

I would say that the risk of forgery is higher with the DF books, only because I've "heard" wink.gif stories about the silver DF seal easily being lifted and books subbed in and out for lower # COA's in the series. ALso heard that some sketches were easily replicated on the "Just signed" copies and resold for 5x as much as Remarkeds/resketched copies...ever really look closely at the DF USM 1 with the Head sketch by Thibert? How hard is it really to do that with a Sharpie?

 

For my money on signed authentic stuff, I'd trust the CGC Sig series more because - one) I've dealt with a lot of the guys who do it - Paradise COmics and pals on here, and trust them to be beyond reputation jeopardizing shennanigans that are not worth their time and the folks at CGc who process the books and grade are also folks I trust...

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Seems to me like you are backpedalling.

 

Back to your first quote you are clearly suggesting that there is a risk of forgery with CGC books - at least "the same amount of risk of being faked as a dynamic forces autograph".

 

Being intimately familiar with the Signature Series process that is simply not true because Dynamic Forces signed books are not sealed in tamper-proof holders. CGC's packaging cannot realistically be reproduced and the holder cannot be opened and resealed.

 

Then you then went on to suggest that CGC employees "could" fake signatures before holdering the books if they wanted to...which is ludicrous considering that they have no reason to do it.

 

And then you suggested that disgruntled employees could undermine the process by forging signatures on their own books and selling them.

 

Kev

 

 

I stand by my first point. If you are not there to see it signed you cannot prove that it is real.

 

Risk of faking is the same for any authenticator.

 

Why do people fake things? To make money. I buy a lot of CGC items. I trust their product but to suggest that they are not open to fraud is ridiculous.

 

I will grant you though that CGC holders do considerably lower the risk of tampering.

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kevthemev vs. mushroom - what is this board coming to?

 

I would say that the risk of forgery is higher with the DF books, only because I've "heard" wink.gif stories about the silver DF seal easily being lifted and books subbed in and out for lower # COA's in the series. ALso heard that some sketches were easily replicated on the "Just signed" copies and resold for 5x as much as Remarkeds/resketched copies...ever really look closely at the DF USM 1 with the Head sketch by Thibert? How hard is it really to do that with a Sharpie?

 

As per my previous post...I agree with Kev that tampering after the event is considerably reduced at point of resale. I still say, though, that there is the same risk as to authenticity of the signature at the time of signing for both companies.

 

As for squabbling.....it's my time of the month. I can't make a guess as to what Kev's problem is. grin.gif

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I stand by my first point. If you are not there to see it signed you cannot prove that it is real.

 

Truth is, I personally have seen most (maybe 60%) of the non-corporate signature signings because I am an officially sanctioned CGC witness. So I do know that it is real, my memory is enough proof for me and for CGC. Do you understand why I might be touchy about it?

 

Risk of faking is the same for any authenticator

 

Not if the authenticator is providing a grading service first. CGC is not making a lot of money from the authentication service. The person has to submit the book for signature series to a person who gets the book signed and then gives it right over to CGC. Where is there room for CGC to fake a signature in that process?

 

Why do people fake things? To make money. I buy a lot of CGC items. I trust their product but to suggest that they are not open to fraud is ridiculous.

 

It is ridiculous to raise the doubt of fraud without proof.

 

I will grant you though that CGC holders do considerably lower the risk of tampering

 

Thanks.

 

Kev

 

 

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As for squabbling.....it's my time of the month. I can't make a guess as to what Kev's problem is.

 

Exhaustion from working on the convention.

 

Frustration from difficulties at the office today.

 

Pride of service, as mentioned in my other post.

 

In that order.

 

Kev

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Kev.....you are taking this way too personal. This was not an attack on CGC or on you personally.

 

I would suspect that the people that oversee DF and American Entertainment signings would be just as protective of their processes and integrity.

 

I raised this issue as an hypothetical....

 

As a person who buys signed books, I have no idea as to whether the signature's are real or not. I am not there to see it in person. I have faith in the books that I buy from all these sources as they have a well deserved reputation in the market.

 

Now ignoring the second had risks of selling and buying the books (where CGC has a distinct advantage through its' packaging) where is the justification for CGC books being 5 - 10x more expensive. I just don't see it.

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Well, I'm not sure where you are getting the 5x to 10x more expensive quote.

 

But I do know that Peter from Paradise has suggested a $40 starting point for most signature series books he sells on e-bay. That cost factors in the cost of the comic (anywhere from $2-$10 or more) then $25 for the Signature Series service, plus $7 for the shipping cost of getting the book. After that the market decides on the price... unless the seller values the book as being worth more than $40.

 

Dynamic Forces books suggested retail price, as per their website, can be significantly higher for a signed book. They do discount heavily to retailers, so that is something to consider, but a quick look at their site I see signed comics for $19.99. 29.99, 39.99, 49.99, 69.99, 79.99, 89.99. Those are the prices that DF suggests that retailers sell the book for to the general public.

 

They do have some signature series ones up as well, generally starting at $69.99 or higher for a 9.8.

 

The trick, I guess, is to wait for DF to dump their dead backstock for $2-5 a book.

 

Kev

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Plus there's the time factor. He has to arrange for having witnesses available, they have to stand in line to meet the artist and get the book signed.

 

Time is money.

 

There is also the travel factor:

 

If you only want to spend $2 to $5 then get the book signed yourself, then by all means do so. Chances are your (especially yours!) plane ticket alone to meet some of these guys will cost you 10x (or more) than buying a $40 signature series book. Factor in meals, hotel and other expenses...

 

Kev

 

 

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Kev.........calm down.

 

Let's agree to disagree.

 

Kev's view. CGC Signature process is an high value service to the community.

 

Mushroom's view. aaaaah [!@#%^&^], I forgot what my view was.

 

JC's view. The market crash for signature books will occur in 2004.

 

 

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One would assume so.

 

It is very difficult to have a point of view on this board let alone raise any HYPOTHETICAL. I understand where Kev is coming from but methinks he is too close to one side of the argument and therefore is not of an open and unbiased frame of mind.

 

 

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One would assume so.

 

It is very difficult to have a point of view on this board let alone raise any HYPOTHETICAL. I understand where Kev is coming from but methinks he is too close to one side of the argument and therefore is not of an open and unbiased frame of mind.

 

Maybe you are too far removed from the argument.... confused-smiley-013.gif

 

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