Problem with Qualified Grades and Signatures

[Kevin Boyd]

I went and had dinner, took care of some business and didn't think anything more of it.

 

This discussion only gets a qualified debate grade as it was not witnessed by JC.

 

Kev

[THE_BEYONDER]

I went and had dinner, took care of some business and didn't think anything more of it.

 

This discussion only gets a qualified debate grade as it was not witnessed by JC.

 

Kev

 

[Kevin Boyd]

One would assume so.

 

It is very difficult to have a point of view on this board let alone raise any HYPOTHETICAL. I understand where Kev is coming from but methinks he is too close to one side of the argument and therefore is not of an open and unbiased frame of mind.

 

I guess not since now you want to discuss my side of the argument!

 

Mushroom, aahhh.... well, I'm glad you at lease see my point of view. It is precisely because I am close to the situation that I find your "hypothetical arguments" so distasteful.

 

You raise hypothetical situations where people like myself or those that I do business with "could" take part in unethical activities for financial gain when elaborate steps and checks have been established to ensure that that exactly that type of "hypothetical" activity does not take place.

 

Kev

 

[Mushroom]

One would assume so.

 

It is very difficult to have a point of view on this board let alone raise any HYPOTHETICAL. I understand where Kev is coming from but methinks he is too close to one side of the argument and therefore is not of an open and unbiased frame of mind.

 

I guess not since now you want to discuss my side of the argument!

 

Mushroom, aahhh.... well, I'm glad you at lease see my point of view. It is precisely because I am close to the situation that I find your "hypothetical arguments" so distasteful.

 

You raise hypothetical situations where people like myself or those that I do business with "could" take part in unethical activities for financial gain when elaborate steps and checks have been established to ensure that that exactly that type of "hypothetical" activity does not take place.{/quote}

 

Do you know what the word paranoid means. Not once did I accuse you or CGC of [!@#%^&^] anything. For God's sake give it a miss. I find your lack of ability to discuss issues laughable. This is typical myopic behaviour. You talk in absolutes...can't, wouldn't, etc Yet, unless you can see the future then you don't know.

 

You obsess about these supposed accusations that I have cast your way, but the original thread was simply a statement around CGC Sig as opposed to other sig companies, the difference in cost etc. Then you throw out lame brained comments about security etc (which the other's have too) and then create a challenge by saying it wouldn't happen.

 

aaaaaaaagh

 

 

 

 

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

There's still something that I don't quite understand here. I am not quite certain how it exactly works, but wouldn't the serial numbers on a Signature Series book eliminate the possibility of one CGC employee from this sort of fraud? Before a book is certified through the Signature Series service, a date and a witness must be secured and recorded in their records, right? This is in addition to information regarding the person submitting the book. How could any one person fabricate all of that without leaving some kind of serious trail (and leaving themselves open for prosecution)?

 

I would also have to respectfully disagree with the notion that a CGC signature has as much of a chance to be a forgery as a DF signature. Given that both companies are legitimate and the employees are moral (or closely monitored)...it would much easier to fake a DF signature than a Signature Series book. I work in a bank, where I have been trained and experienced in fraud and loss prevention. I have seen holographic seals and legal documents very carefully fabricated with ease. These are the only two things that verify a Dynamic Forces signature. However, in order to fabricate a Signature Series book, a numerous amount of security aspects would have to addressed.

 

First, there is of course the case. It would have to be the right size, with the tamper proof seals, there is the inner well, etc, etc.

 

A signature series label would have to be fabricated with a date of when the signing was witnessed.

 

Somehow, a serial number has to be fabricated or taken from another book. A lot of things have to coincide with this number as well. Condition of the book, quality of the pages, etc, etc.

 

If the number is made up, then a bar code must be created to go with the number and it must somehow make its way into the CGC system.

 

That paper that neutralizes acids must be put in.

 

CGC has their own hologram that they put on the case.

 

Given all of these safeguards, I simply cannot agree that forging a Signature Series autograph is as easy as forging a DF or any other signature.

[Kevin Boyd]

Do you know what the word paranoid means. Not once did I accuse you or CGC of [!@#%^&^] anything. For God's sake give it a miss. I find your lack of ability to discuss issues laughable. This is typical myopic behaviour. You talk in absolutes...can't, wouldn't, etc Yet, unless you can see the future then you don't know.

 

You obsess about these supposed accusations that I have cast your way, but the original thread was simply a statement around CGC Sig as opposed to other sig companies, the difference in cost etc. Then you throw out lame brained comments about security etc (which the other's have too) and then create a challenge by saying it wouldn't happen.

 

aaaaaaaagh

 

For the tenth millionth time I know what your frickin point is and you have no idea on how to debate a bloody topic because I honestly believe you have no idea of what you are talking about. Your point seems to be:

 

"That there is as much of a risk of fraud (later on you seemed to think that maybe there was less because of the holder) with CGC Signature Series books as there is with DF/AE books. If you don't see it signed yourself how can you trust it?"

 

As for your second question why does it cost more - I've told you why they cost more.

 

And for the umpteenth time I will flipping reiterate my flapping point - that there is less to no risk of fraud with CGC Signature Series books because the process is designed to prevent that from happening and the product is less likely to be fooled around with then the DF/AE books, which can be easily tampered with.

 

Kev

 

 

[Kevin Boyd]

Which all leads back to the original poster's point, which is that if CGC doesn't witness the signature then it gets a Qualified grade (or a universal grade if the book gets a low grade).

 

It's not a slight on DF/AE or Valiant Verified Signature or you if you've got photos or video of it actually getting signed... whatever... if it isn't signed in front of someone from or appointed by CGC then they don't authenticate it.

 

Period.

 

Kev