The Official The Walking Dead Discussion Thread
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On 6/25/2019 at 6:58 AM, Sensei Ryan said:

So this is a bit off-topic, but I have been meaning to broach this topic with my fellow TWD collectors for a while (Tom - BladeTX and I have discussed it at length, at least) but I HATE seeing stuff like this (see links below to the eBay auctions).

Now I'm as big of a TWD fan as I can imagine one would be but I think this is a form of elder abuse and manipulation and have zero respect for both the commissioner and artist who does stuff like this.  Stan Lee, in his twilight years, would be manipulated into signing blank covers only to find out later that he's been zombiefied or turned into a walker getting bashed by Negan (just a couple that I've seen - the Negan smashing Stan cover is the most shameful one I've seen).  I get it that it's crazy cool to have a Stan Lee sig but not at the cost of manipulating an elderly person just to pull a ruse and turn a profit or flip a book.  The only way I would feel different about this is if I KNEW that Stan understood what was going down and gave it his blessing but I've yet to see proof of this. And seeing the sigs on the backs of the book or on the label saying Stan signed it first with the art to come later is SHADY and wrong.  I would never buy something like this...having seen and known many elderly people in my life - many of whom have dealt with dementia and Alzheimer's disease, this is just shameful. 2c

I suspect some buyers don't realize that Stan either didn't see the art first or didn't know what he was being conned into signing...so the blame is more on the artist/commissioners than anyone else, IMO.

Stan Lee sig on back (but apparently CGC forgot to denote it on the label)

Signed by Stan BEFORE the art went on the book...

Signed by Stan on the back - same day as the art but I'm betting Stan either never saw the front or signed after the art...

Note the grossly inflated prices on the books, too.  Maybe I'm alone on this but I just feel disgusted by it.  The only way I'd feel different - like I said - is if I knew he knew what was happening with the book (like seeing a pic of him smiling and holding it would even make me feel better about it but I feel manipulation was the main way these sketches went down).

Sorry for the rant...this has just bothered me for years and these popped up much more frequently after he passed.  I typically don't rock the boat with my opinions but I loathe and despise any form of what I believe is elder abuse or manipulation.

Hey Ryan,

       Yeah thanks for the heads-up on these, I feel the same.  There is even one out now with Stan as Michonne leading “pets”’of Venom Spiderman and Daredevil.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132867236192

The worst of all is Stan zombie-fied with a Signature on a blank then art done around it

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F283479663610

 

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21 hours ago, GoldenGod87 said:

#19 I'm not sure. That could hit $150 and stay there, do you mean that the 9.8 cgc graded issue 19 thats going for 700-to 750 will drop to 150 eventually after the shows over?!!!

I sure as hell hope not.  My #19 is 2xSS with a Moore sketch.  Great looking book and I did not pay a crazy price given Moore charges $200 for a sketch.  Unless of course no one cares anymore.

 I also had a 9.8 U that I traded for other signed books, even had it reholdered to the new fen version.  Still wish I had that to display in my office and if they ever go below $400, I’m buying.

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11 hours ago, ExNihilo said:

I don't think anyone's changing your stance on this, but I think it's fair to say you're probably in the minority on this one.  Had someone gone ahead and gotten Stan's sig and then written "I hate Marvel" over it, I'm pretty sure that would have been grounds for his handlers ceasing the signing of blank covers, much like with what happened after the Negan covers came to light.  You say Stan is being exploited and that other artists are profiting off of it.  First off, I have to wonder if you realize how little artists make.  The work they get is inconsistent, and from what I've seen on social media, the pay doesn't sound like it's all that great unless your name happens to be Jim Lee, J Scott Campbell, Artgerm, or some other big time artist.  That's why a lot of smaller artists have commission lists, because they have the time and they need the money.  Secondly, if you're upset about artists profiting, then you should be upset about commissioned pieces in general.  The artists don't own the copyrights to any of the characters and thus have no legal right to draw and/or profit from the artwork.  To me, these pieces are labors of love and respect.  If Skottie Young drew a baby Stan Lee piece, would it be any different?  Or is it disrespectful because it portrays Stan as a big baby?  I think you're hung up on the fact that he's gone and that these images happen to portray him as a zombie.  Is this a feeling you've carried the last 5 years (or however long when the first commission was done)?  If you're consistent about it, that's great.  But if this is something that has only been an issue the last year, then I have to wonder why now?  What changed?  I mean, you're free to have an opinion and it's great to have a respectful discourse, I'm just going to have to politely disagree with you on this.

Whether I'm in the minority or not is irrelevant to me...and this has been an issue to me for years as it was years ago that I first noted those Negan bashing Stan art pieces (this wasn't long after Negan first appeared for when they reared their heads).  The Why now is easily answered is that I keep seeing the same unsold ones pop up on ebay as I search TWD books multiple times daily and while it's always bothered me, I just now took the time to write up a post about it.  Since only 3 people have responded about this (me, you, and Tom), it's clear that it's not the end of the world type of an issue and I never said it was.  As comic collectors, we live in fantasy and thrive on it, dark, gory, raunchy, whatnot.  To me, Stan was a real person who deserves better than to be manipulated into signing ANYTHING prior to knowing what is going to be done, specifically when it would be a sketch of himself.  That bothers me more than the zombie Stan image itself.  Once again, for the 4th time, had he seen the sketch and then signed it I'd have never even brought this up.  Go check out the same links I provided and note the date discrepancies...this has been my issue from the beginning, regardless of whether or no zombie Stan is in good taste.

And my issue is more with the consigner than the artists but to me both share in the blame...and I don't think the artists are rolling in the dough for it.  If I were an artist, there would be lines I wouldn't cross for any freelance work (whether they make a dime or 10K on this art, though, it's still wrong to me).  I feel - and it's my opinion and I'm entitled to share it - that representing a dead Stan Lee in the waning years of his life and/or dead - is disrespectful to him and his family.  I moreso feel this way because I've not seen the sketches done prior to his signing.  If you can show me one where there is a zombie sketch of Stan and then he's signed it after seeing the sketch I'll withdraw my feelings toward this and tbh there may be one found through a simple google search...but of all the ones I've seen pop up on eBay, I've yet to see it myself be his sig after the sketch.  Manipulating the elderly, again, to me, is not okay in any form.  And Stan was clearly elderly from the time Negan appeared - which is when these started popping up - till his death. 2c  Like I said, though, Stan may love the heck out of something like this but based on what I've read - at least about the Negan ones - he didn't.  And I don't care how big of a name artist we have doing stuff like this...to me, it's wrong.

I'm more than okay with disagreement...I don't mind friendly debate.  We can agree to disagree.  I've seen what age can do to a person firsthand and I've seen real A-holes take advantage of people in those golden years.  This clearly happened with Stan and this was just a minor part of that time period.  Oh, and to address your baby argument, Stan yes could find that disrespectful, too...but I doubt his family or people close to him would see a pic of him as a baby and him as a zombie and see they evoke the same emotions.  To counter your argument, let's say that they drew a living Stan attacking Jack Kirby.  It's a fine line between representing someone in a fun or light or respectful manner and one in a tasteless one.  Zombie Stan - unless he's cool with it - is distasteful to me and the only way I'd relent on that is seeing him hold the sketch, or sign the sketch, or a pic of one of the two proving he knew what he was signing.  Show me that and I'll still feel it was uncool to manipulate him on the ones that came after but I'lll feel less passionate about it ;) 

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18 minutes ago, BladeTX said:

Hey Ryan,

       Yeah thanks for the heads-up on these, I feel the same.  There is even one out now with Stan as Michonne leading “pets”’of Venom Spiderman and Daredevil.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132867236192

The worst of all is Stan zombie-fied with a Signature on a blank then art done around it

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F283479663610

 

Thanks, Tom! You and I may be in the minority on this feeling but we're all human beings and should be treated with respect and not just used to make a profit like Stan clearly was in his golden years. :(

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3 minutes ago, Sensei Ryan said:

Thanks, Tom! You and I may be in the minority on this feeling but we're all human beings and should be treated with respect and not just used to make a profit like Stan clearly was in his golden years. :(

I dunno, since only 3 of us have commented, and i'm the only one with a dissenting opinion, perhaps i'm in the minority.  ;)

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14,513 posts

So apparently the series is ending?

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4 minutes ago, mysterio said:

So apparently the series is ending?

:whatthe: where did you hear this? Any more info would be appreciated so we can determine if it’s legit or not...

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193. It’s 71 pages. There’s more I’d share but I’m not. I’ll let someone else ruin it for everyone. 

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30 minutes ago, Sensei Ryan said:

:whatthe: where did you hear this? Any more info would be appreciated so we can determine if it’s legit or not...

The covers for #194 and #195 are on Charlie's FaceBook page https://www.facebook.com/CharlieAdlard/

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49 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Yup, wait until you read the Kirkman letter at the end of 193.

Have you seen the letter?

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6 minutes ago, Crops068 said:

Have you seen the letter?

Yes, it's making its rounds on social media.

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Are the LCS owners themselves leaking this news? If it doesn’t go out until tomorrow who else would have it to leak it?

I know my LCS puts new issues on the shelf tomorrow but doesn’t sell them till Wednesday...

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3 minutes ago, Sensei Ryan said:

Are the LCS owners themselves leaking this news? If it doesn’t go out until tomorrow who else would have it to leak it?

I know my LCS puts new issues on the shelf tomorrow but doesn’t sell them till Wednesday...

Kirkman posted about it today that most likely it would start leaking.

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8 minutes ago, Sensei Ryan said:

Are the LCS owners themselves leaking this news? If it doesn’t go out until tomorrow who else would have it to leak it?

I know my LCS puts new issues on the shelf tomorrow but doesn’t sell them till Wednesday...

With the last big news a couple issues ago the information came out the Sunday before.

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It's insane to think the book is ending.  Maybe spin-offs in a year or two?

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So disappointing.  

Would have preferred a method similar to when Invincible ended.  Even if that just took us to #200. 

Patrick

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Having read the entire series, I will say this: Kirkman simply didn't know what else to write. It betrays his weakness as a writer. Yes, yes, "go out on a high note!" and "always leave them wanting more!", but the fact is, there were, and are, a ton of stories which could be told.

Maybe he's tired. Fine. But there was so much more to this story that we won't get (?), and it wasn't even remotely close to being done yet. 

All great stories...even epics...have a beginning, a middle, and an end. 

We're going to end in the middle.

And that's really a shame.

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