N e r V Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: I guess if you post it in the Baker thread, you have to expect some debate as to whether it's Baker, no? Sure, that’s fair. There’s a number of books including some super expensive keys that others post as Bakers here that I and others think are anywhere from 50/50 to total long shots as being his work. I just meant that I don’t wish to debate it since it comes down to peoples opinions. It’s also why I don’t comment on others books that I feel are unlikely Baker covers. Anyone feel free to debate it though. Just not with me please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamstrange Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 7 hours ago, rjpb said: I saw that lot and threw up a lower offer a few minutes before yours. This sentence ended a little differently than I expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjpb Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 4 hours ago, N e r V said: Yes, like CGC and GCD I do think it is. I’m a lot more comfortable with it than others I think are a long shot being called Bakers today. I also think it’s become worthy of a “classic cover” designation too. Either way I didn’t post it for debate but for the enjoyment of the art regardless of where you might feel it belongs. peace, Either way it's a great cover! Whoever did the art, it looks like the same person drew the first story in the book "The Saint Steals The Show", and it has style similarities to the cover of Molly O'Day, another Avon book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 36 minutes ago, rjpb said: Either way it's a great cover! Whoever did the art, it looks like the same person drew the first story in the book "The Saint Steals The Show", and it has style similarities to the cover of Molly O'Day, another Avon book. The artist on Molly O’ Day actually traced the female on the cover from this pulp. Point Five and rjpb 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicnoir Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, N e r V said: The artist on Molly O’ Day actually traced the female on the cover from this pulp. Yes I always thought the right gun arm was all wrong on Molly O'Day, doesn't look attached to her body. Her head should be lower like in the Pulp painting. Not even a good swipe. Edited October 17, 2017 by comicnoir 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N e r V Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) When I took art classes in college I remember one instructor who would make the student try to mimic a pose that they drew if she felt it looked wrong from a likely anatomy standpoint. Besides providing the class with some needed amusing relief at times I always felt that was a simple but brilliant method of teaching the student to work on drawing things accurately and not being sloppy or unaware of reality. The exception of coarse was when the point of the illustration was to be in fact unrealistic or exaggerated and the student was allowed to make their case on its behalf and saved the embarrassment of looking silly in front of the class. The above figure illustrates that point perfectly when the girls pose works ok for filing but not really for trying to do a John Woo double gun pose. Edited October 17, 2017 by N e r V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comicnoir Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Exaggerated anatomy can be appreciated as "style" like a Kirby drawing, but the Molly is trying for realism and I think it needed work. The dress is nicely rendered I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Collector Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 10/15/2017 at 4:45 AM, october said: Sometimes luck shines on us. Stuck unnoticed in an otherwise unremarkable golden age lot. $375 and a few days later... Oh man!! what a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exitmusicblue Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Been reading the book on Matt Baker (Art of Glamour)... and it is glorious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 8 hours ago, comicnoir said: Yes I always thought the right gun arm was all wrong on Molly O'Day, doesn't look attached to her body. Her head should be lower like in the Pulp painting. Not even a good swipe. Good catch. I have a feeling there are more examples of comic artists swiping pulp covers that we haven't yet tracked down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, exitmusicblue said: Been reading the book on Matt Baker (Art of Glamour)... and it is glorious. I agree. Essential reading for a Baker fan. exitmusicblue and Dale Roberts 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29dukedog Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: Good catch. I have a feeling there are more examples of comic artists swiping pulp covers that we haven't yet tracked down. Fiction House comics swiped from their own pulp covers all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: I agree. Essential reading for a Baker fan. ....it's a good read anyway...... for anybody. I was lucky enough to have read it before I was a Baker fan. I have a question..... exactly why do those who feel Saint 2 is NOT Baker ? ....It looks like his hand to me. We see a lot of the St John stuff posted, and their editorial stance seemed to favor multi panel covers that featured "snapshots" of the stories as opposed to the poster approach that other publishers used. Either way, it's a cool comic that has neat stuff inside as well. GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 It isn't listed in The Art of Glamour checklist, which, I assume, means that JV, Jr. thinks it's not Baker. Overstreet also doesn't credit it to Baker -- not to say that Overstreet's Baker attributions are always reliable. The cover doesn't really scream Baker to me, although it's obviously impossible to rule it out. Is there another instance of an Avon cover by him? I can't think of one. The covers of surrounding issues of the Saint are clearly not Baker -- again, though, that by itself would not be enough to rule out his having done this cover as a one-off. jimjum12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Love Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 yeh it just doesn't look like him. Although that Lucky Dale page is awesome. GCD says Warren Kremer, but I don't have the experience to judge. and +1 on that TADS 9 btw, Tony. That is one heckofa nicely presenting .5, really. jimjum12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjum12 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 www.comicbookplus.com also credits Kremer with Lucky Dale.... in more than one issue. These Saint books are surprisingly well done. I, too, was wondering about the lack of a Baker/Avon relationship, although ComicBookPlus credits Baker with the cover to #4 . GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) 1950's war comics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 minute ago, jimjum12 said: www.comicbookplus.com also credits Kremer with Lucky Dale.... in more than one issue. These Saint books are surprisingly well done. I, too, was wondering about the lack of a Baker/Avon relationship, although ComicBookPlus credits Baker with the cover to #4 . GOD BLESS... -jimbo(a friend of jesus) Wait, are we talking about Saint 2 or Saint 4? GCD notes that Allen Ulmer signed the cover to Saint 2. GCD does credit Baker with the cover to Saint 4. GCD doesn't give a rationale for the attribution (as they sometimes do) but does note that the cover was reprinted in https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Presents-Classic-Phantom-Lady/dp/1848636245/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1848636245&pd_rd_r=SH7J53AY4S8AJ2NXSQ2C&pd_rd_w=SKX0P&pd_rd_wg=bHhAC&psc=1&refRID=SH7J53AY4S8AJ2NXSQ2C&dpID=51hOKtW6LpL&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=detail. That book has an intro by JV, Jr. in which (I think!) he argues that the cover is not Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 42 minutes ago, Dr. Love said: yeh it just doesn't look like him. Although that Lucky Dale page is awesome. GCD says Warren Kremer, but I don't have the experience to judge. and +1 on that TADS 9 btw, Tony. That is one heckofa nicely presenting .5, really. Thanks. She's got a terrific personality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szav Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Sqeggs said: Wait, are we talking about Saint 2 or Saint 4? GCD notes that Allen Ulmer signed the cover to Saint 2. GCD does credit Baker with the cover to Saint 4. GCD doesn't give a rationale for the attribution (as they sometimes do) but does note that the cover was reprinted in https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Presents-Classic-Phantom-Lady/dp/1848636245/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1848636245&pd_rd_r=SH7J53AY4S8AJ2NXSQ2C&pd_rd_w=SKX0P&pd_rd_wg=bHhAC&psc=1&refRID=SH7J53AY4S8AJ2NXSQ2C&dpID=51hOKtW6LpL&preST=_SY344_BO1,204,203,200_QL70_&dpSrc=detail. That book has an intro by JV, Jr. in which (I think!) he argues that the cover is not Baker. The intro in this book actually says that 4 is Baker...while JVJ is not directly quoted on this particular book, the forward that he wrote is basically his take on what is and what isn't Baker. The cover to Saint 4 is presented with a few other pictures alongside the text with the caption "Saint 4 sports a spiffy Baker cover"... also included in these examples of what is a Baker is Seven Seas 6. A few years later JVJ seems to have changed his mind in the Art of Glamour (about Saint 4). Edited October 17, 2017 by szavisca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sqeggs Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 minute ago, szavisca said: The intro in this book actually says that 4 is Baker...while JVJ is not directly quoted on this particular book, the forward that he wrote is basically his take on what is and what isn't Baker. The cover to Saint 4 is presented with a few other pictures alongside the text with the caption "Saint 4 sports a spiffy Baker cover"... also included in these examples of what is a Baker is Seven Seas 6. Interesting. I just ordered a copy of the book. Seems like a good one to have even apart from any light it throws on the art credit for this cover. SS 6 seems clearly Baker to me. I don't think I've ever seen that one questioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
