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Amazing Fantasy #15 Club

Started by Spider-Variant,

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Spider-Variant

Spider-Variant

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I threw that 2000 number out as I thought I had read that somewhere. I need to see if I can remember where I read that. But I even stated that was too low. I think the general consensus (best guess) is around 10,000 copies. That would mean about 10% slabbed.

 

 

 

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Mutant Manatee

Mutant Manatee

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Don't get me wrong, I wasn't doubting that you had read that 2,000 number somewhere. Overstreet very well could have stated that in the early 1990's. The emergence of the internet has given a more true indication of just how many copies are out there.

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were 6,000 to 8,000 copies in existence.

 

Is it known what the true print run was for AF #15? I just threw that 200,000 number out there based on average Marvel print runs I have seen from that era. Is it listed in the Standard Catalog of Comic Books? (I'm at work and my copy of that book is at home.)

 

 

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homerwannabee

homerwannabee

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The Overstreet guide at one point tried to estimate the number of copies for key issues. The 91/92 guide listed 1400 copies existing for AF 15!

Well at the moment there are 1051 of these comics graded alone. Talk about a severe underestimation.

 

 

http://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=Amazing+Fantasy&publisher=Marvel+Comics&issue=15&year=1962&issuedate=8%2F62

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rodan57

rodan57

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Don't get me wrong, I wasn't doubting that you had read that 2,000 number somewhere. Overstreet very well could have stated that in the early 1990's. The emergence of the internet has given a more true indication of just how many copies are out there.

 

It wouldn't surprise me at all if there were 6,000 to 8,000 copies in existence.

 

Is it known what the true print run was for AF #15? I just threw that 200,000 number out there based on average Marvel print runs I have seen from that era. Is it listed in the Standard Catalog of Comic Books? (I'm at work and my copy of that book is at home.)

 

 

I am going to play a little guessing game with numbers -- just for fun.

 

The best selling Marvel in 1962 was Modeling with Millie (143,476 average/month).

This was followed by Patsy & Hedy (139,855); Tales to Astonish (139,167); Strange Tales (136,637); Journey into Mystery (132,113); Gunsmoke Western (126,475); and Tales of Suspense (126,140).

 

This information is from Comic Book Sales Figures from 1962. It lists the top 54 selling comic books that year (excluding Dell's Disney titles for which there was no data.)

 

The other Marvel titles from that year that do not make the list threshold of 112,441 copies per month (Charlton's Teen Confessions) are: Fantastic Four; Kathy; Kid Colt Outlaw; Linda Carter, Student Nurse; Love Romances; Millie the Model; Rawhide Kid; Teen-Age Romances; Two-Gun Kid; and Amazing (Adult) Fantasy.

 

If we assume that the other titles are in close competition with each other (i.e., they have to sell at a certain level to maintain their place on the publication schedule), then perhaps they sell at 15% less than the lowest Marvel title on the chart, Tales of Suspense. I choose 15% to put their sales under that of Teen Confessions.

 

That would put most of these titles at 107,000 issues per month. (Any board member with issues that list the publication data from that year might be able to verify this with far more precision.)

 

Amazing Adult Fantasy was on the chopping block by all accounts, probably at the bottom of the bunch, so let's say its usual sales were less than 100,000 copies per month. However, Amazing Fantasy #15 sold surprisingly well, leading to Spider-Man's own comic book the next year.

 

Amazing Fantasy's sales were not going to be more that Modeling with Millie at over 143,000 but could this number have been high enough to put it mid-pack among Marvel's titles: say just below the chart threshold at 110,000?

 

A 5% survival rate would be 5,500 copies. A 10% survival rate would be 11,000 copies.

 

 

 

 

 

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Mutant Manatee

Mutant Manatee

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Very interesting. It should be noted that those figures are only for books that actually published circulation figures in 1962. Not all titles did. In fact, as JJM noted, there are virtually no figures for Dell or Gold Key at all for 1962.

 

Also, I don't think that list is the top 54 selling books of 1962, I think it's only a list of books that actually reported paid circulation firgures in their Statement of Ownership. There very well could have been books that sold more copies than those on the list, they just didn't publish circulation firgures in Statements of Ownership in 1962. That must be why a title like Fantastic Four is not on the list, that title simply didn't publish a Statement of Ownership in 1962. (Surely FF outsold Modeling with Millie! ARRGH!) :)

 

The other thing to consider is that those figures are for PAID circulation, not the total number of books that were actually printed. It doesn't include complimentary copies, file copies, unsold returns, office-use copies, etc. It's difficult to determine just what the number might be for these "unpaid" copies. Did they send 10 free copies of each issue to all of their big advertisers? Did all of the Marvel staffers get free copies? Were there stacks of comics sitting in Marvel's offices? Hard to say, but it it is definitely possible.

 

Nevertheless, that is a very interesting list that I hadn't seen before. Lowly Marvel wouldn't lag behind much longer, would they? And it's no wonder Bill Gaines was a millionaire if Mad was selling 1,200,000 copies per month!

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rodan57

rodan57

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You bring up some very good points .

 

If memory serves me correctly, complimentary copies are in some very low range of 20-30 copies. Though I will admit I gave up looking for a Statement of Ownership after about 15 minutes. Taking even beat-up readers out of plastic was a bit of a pain. I am not a fan of making claims without evidence so I could be seriously wrong on these numbers.

 

Unsold books would account for about half the print run. Warehouse runs have been discovered for many books over the years (Mile High II) but I don't see anyone being precognizant about Amazing Fantasy or Marvel so early in the game. I believe this was still the period in which retailers had to return the top half of the comic cover to gain credit. The great majority of shopkeepers would probably not be playing the game of selling half-cover issues (though it did happen enough to be recognized as an issue).

 

Marvel did sell back issues in the early 60s but I remember some letter page or bullpen bulletin in late 1965 or so indicating that such issues were no longer available. So supplies outside of retail sales were probably small.

 

Fantastic Four and Spider-Man apparently don't have Statement of Ownerships until 1966. (Check out the listing for this year: Best selling comics in 1966.) However, I don't have a problem with Modeling with Millie* outselling the Fantastic Four in 1962 (It had a good edge on most Marvel titles). Teen titles were always great solid sellers for Marvel.

 

Fantastic Four #4-12 came out in the 1962 calendar year -- still so very early in the issue's run. It doesn't even go monthly until June that year. I think when we get into the 1963-65 calendar years (for the Fantastic Four), the lack of data would more significant.

 

Marvel itself, and this is from memory, did not become a leading publisher until 1968 or 1969 (I stand to be corrected on this, but it sticks in my memory because it seemed to me that their best work was done before they became number one.)

 

You are quite correct in noting that some key titles (Dell) are missing from the list. And by suggesting that the Fantastic Four are not in contention because no Statement of Ownership was printed probably holds true for the other Marvel titles -- if one is going to list 54 titles, why not list 64 or 74?

 

•I find it interesting that Modeling with Millie was a better seller than Millie the Model.

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Wayne-Tec

Wayne-Tec

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But if AF #15 sold around 100,000 copies, isn't a 5% or 10% survival rate rather high? Keep in mind i have no evidence to back that up, its just an opinion. I know we see alot of AF #15's for sale but who's to say copies we see one year are not the same we see on sale next year. Its in such great demand that you better see it at every major convention. Still, i find it facinating to try to figure out how many copies survived to today.

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rodan57

rodan57

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But if AF #15 sold around 100,000 copies, isn't a 5% or 10% survival rate rather high? Keep in mind i have no evidence to back that up, its just an opinion. I know we see alot of AF #15's for sale but who's to say copies we see one year are not the same we see on sale next year. Its in such great demand that you better see it at every major convention. Still, i find it facinating to try to figure out how many copies survived to today.

 

The 5% and 10% figures are offered up to try to match other estimated totals -- merely an exercise in logic. I have no evidence of comic book survival rate from the early1960s.

 

Twenty-five years ago, I was into antique cars and owned a 1941 Plymouth. Production numbers were around 550,000. At that time a car magazine estimated that about 1% of these cars still existed: 5,500.

 

I don't know how the article writer arrived at this number (motor vehicle registrations?) but I offer it as an example, as it seemed to me at the time that 5.500 1941 Plymouths was a high survival number.

 

It's probably easier to keep a comic book in a closet (especially one that had some very early value and recognition) than an old car in a garage. So, even given the ephemeral nature of the comic book, is 5-10% too high?

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chromium

chromium

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I personally enjoy all the speculation. Yes, wouldn't it be great to have exact numbers on published copies, remaining copies, etc. But then what would we talk about?

 

lol:applause:

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