Amazing Fantasy #15 Club
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Hey All! total newbie on posting on this forum but I do visit this site alot for advice and to drool over the comics I hope to own one day. So I wanted to seek advice from the veterans here who would definitely have a better eye than 'I.' Out of these two AF15 which one is a better copy? they are both graded 4.

 

I like the top one the best. The bottom one has a severe browning happening at the bottom inch of the cover and that chip out of the bottom for me is worse than all the imperfections the top copy has. Plus page quality is better up top.

 

BUT, it all would come down to the back covers & the graders notes at this point for me.... plus I'm sure that the price is slightly different on these two copies so that would factor in too.

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Not sure if I'm too late to this or if you made the purchase, but I'd go with the second one...

No back scams were given, so I'm close on these BUT...

 

If it were me I'd grab the highest graded copy I could without marvel chipping. The chipping generally isn't graded as harshly by CGC, but the resell on a chipped AF15 is more diffeicult than on a clean edged Af15. Look at various sites and you can easily see this.

 

The second one has drawbacks of PQ and the stain, but I'd be happier with it personally.

If the second copy had TAN-Creme of some TAN-Off WHITE weirdness that would change things a bit.

 

You could flip that second one faster too if you choose to upgrade!

Have a good one,

Scott

 

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The stains are worse on grading as the chipping is not always look at as an imperfection...

I was told they look at it as a printing defect since there is some argument they were off the stand like this. Later issues were improperly cut by a dull blade or something like that.

 

To me both are unattractive but I just HATE those rough edges, and like many collectors I steer clear of MC books PERIOD.

 

Just my 2 cents.

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Not sure if I'm too late to this or if you made the purchase, but I'd go with the second one...

No back scams were given, so I'm close on these BUT...

 

If it were me I'd grab the highest graded copy I could without marvel chipping. The chipping generally isn't graded as harshly by CGC, but the resell on a chipped AF15 is more diffeicult than on a clean edged Af15. Look at various sites and you can easily see this.

 

The second one has drawbacks of PQ and the stain, but I'd be happier with it personally.

If the second copy had TAN-Creme of some TAN-Off WHITE weirdness that would change things a bit.

 

You could flip that second one faster too if you choose to upgrade!

Have a good one,

Scott

 

Note something about the label PQ designation. That has nothing to do with the quality of the cover paper.

What you can see is only the covers, the label PQ only hints at what's inside, the interior page quality. What is more important, the inside PQ, or the cover PQ?

 

CGC grading takes PQ into account, so the worse the cover PQ is, the lower the grade should be. That poor quality cover of the 2nd copy is to be avoided, versus the 1st copy. That cover paper may be seriously tanned and brittle, because the label only tells you about the inside PQ.

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Not sure if I'm too late to this or if you made the purchase, but I'd go with the second one...

No back scams were given, so I'm close on these BUT...

 

If it were me I'd grab the highest graded copy I could without marvel chipping. The chipping generally isn't graded as harshly by CGC, but the resell on a chipped AF15 is more diffeicult than on a clean edged Af15. Look at various sites and you can easily see this.

 

The second one has drawbacks of PQ and the stain, but I'd be happier with it personally.

If the second copy had TAN-Creme of some TAN-Off WHITE weirdness that would change things a bit.

 

You could flip that second one faster too if you choose to upgrade!

Have a good one,

Scott

 

Note something about the label PQ designation. That has nothing to do with the quality of the cover paper.

What you can see is only the covers, the label PQ only hints at what's inside, the interior page quality. What is more important, the inside PQ, or the cover PQ?

 

CGC grading takes PQ into account, so the worse the cover PQ is, the lower the grade should be. That poor quality cover of the 2nd copy is to be avoided, versus the 1st copy. That cover paper may be seriously tanned and brittle, because the label only tells you about the inside PQ.

 

I agree, the 2nd copy is brown at the bottom of the cover. That can usually mean brittleness in the brown area.

 

Also, is it just me or does the right edge of the 2nd copy look trimmed? optical illusion? I guess if CGC didn't see it it must be fine.

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That's a really good point to consider.

I do tend to steer away from tan, even creme label books*.

 

My AF15 is a 4.0 off-White to White...

I just really don't like the Marvel Chipping. It bugs me even worse in

a slabbed book for some reason. Maybe it's just me though.

 

*I got an old EC years ago that looked visually nice but was so brittle

it actually started to break in my hands if I'd open the pages. Leaves

a bad feeling in my stomach just thinking about that book!

 

Have a good one,

Scott

PS: Maybe it's so close I'd flip a coin on these...or buy the best priced

book as these are close IMO

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Not sure if I'm too late to this or if you made the purchase, but I'd go with the second one...

No back scams were given, so I'm close on these BUT...

 

If it were me I'd grab the highest graded copy I could without marvel chipping. The chipping generally isn't graded as harshly by CGC, but the resell on a chipped AF15 is more diffeicult than on a clean edged Af15. Look at various sites and you can easily see this.

 

The second one has drawbacks of PQ and the stain, but I'd be happier with it personally.

If the second copy had TAN-Creme of some TAN-Off WHITE weirdness that would change things a bit.

 

You could flip that second one faster too if you choose to upgrade!

Have a good one,

Scott

 

Note something about the label PQ designation. That has nothing to do with the quality of the cover paper.

What you can see is only the covers, the label PQ only hints at what's inside, the interior page quality. What is more important, the inside PQ, or the cover PQ?

 

CGC grading takes PQ into account, so the worse the cover PQ is, the lower the grade should be. That poor quality cover of the 2nd copy is to be avoided, versus the 1st copy. That cover paper may be seriously tanned and brittle, because the label only tells you about the inside PQ.

Actually cover pq absolutely is part of cgc pq designation (they have confirmed this many times). The label tells you about the interior, including covers. Thought I would clarify that before misinformation got used to make a decision.

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Not sure if I'm too late to this or if you made the purchase, but I'd go with the second one...

No back scams were given, so I'm close on these BUT...

 

If it were me I'd grab the highest graded copy I could without marvel chipping. The chipping generally isn't graded as harshly by CGC, but the resell on a chipped AF15 is more diffeicult than on a clean edged Af15. Look at various sites and you can easily see this.

 

The second one has drawbacks of PQ and the stain, but I'd be happier with it personally.

If the second copy had TAN-Creme of some TAN-Off WHITE weirdness that would change things a bit.

 

You could flip that second one faster too if you choose to upgrade!

Have a good one,

Scott

 

Note something about the label PQ designation. That has nothing to do with the quality of the cover paper.

What you can see is only the covers, the label PQ only hints at what's inside, the interior page quality. What is more important, the inside PQ, or the cover PQ?

 

CGC grading takes PQ into account, so the worse the cover PQ is, the lower the grade should be. That poor quality cover of the 2nd copy is to be avoided, versus the 1st copy. That cover paper may be seriously tanned and brittle, because the label only tells you about the inside PQ.

Actually cover pq absolutely is part of cgc pq designation (they have confirmed this many times). The label tells you about the interior, including covers. Thought I would clarify that before misinformation got used to make a decision.

 

I disagree. I still have pictures of an ASM 60 with Off White To White pages listed on the label, but the CGC notes declare that it has tanning covers. The book looks 9.6, but graded as an 8.0, it sold for about $69 IIRC. Others have found examples similar to that one, and they have been posted in other threads.

 

CGC may change how they grade from one day to the next, year to year etc, but we still have to believe that sometimes things are not done well. They need to change the label PQ meaning, and use a better scale, and explain it way way better than with us guessing.

 

 

The example I mentioned;

asm60cgc80owwclinkaucti.jpg

 

The CGC label does not tell you anything specific about the cover paper quality.

Edited by Peter Loves Gwen
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Not sure if I'm too late to this or if you made the purchase, but I'd go with the second one...

No back scams were given, so I'm close on these BUT...

 

If it were me I'd grab the highest graded copy I could without marvel chipping. The chipping generally isn't graded as harshly by CGC, but the resell on a chipped AF15 is more diffeicult than on a clean edged Af15. Look at various sites and you can easily see this.

 

The second one has drawbacks of PQ and the stain, but I'd be happier with it personally.

If the second copy had TAN-Creme of some TAN-Off WHITE weirdness that would change things a bit.

 

You could flip that second one faster too if you choose to upgrade!

Have a good one,

Scott

 

Note something about the label PQ designation. That has nothing to do with the quality of the cover paper.

What you can see is only the covers, the label PQ only hints at what's inside, the interior page quality. What is more important, the inside PQ, or the cover PQ?

 

CGC grading takes PQ into account, so the worse the cover PQ is, the lower the grade should be. That poor quality cover of the 2nd copy is to be avoided, versus the 1st copy. That cover paper may be seriously tanned and brittle, because the label only tells you about the inside PQ.

Actually cover pq absolutely is part of cgc pq designation (they have confirmed this many times). The label tells you about the interior, including covers. Thought I would clarify that before misinformation got used to make a decision.

 

I disagree. I still have pictures of an ASM 60 with Off White To White pages listed on the label, but the CGC notes declare that it has tanning covers. The book looks 9.6, but graded as an 8.0, it sold for about $69 IIRC. Others have found examples similar to that one, and they have been posted in other threads.

 

CGC may change how they grade from one day to the next, year to year etc, but we still have to believe that sometimes things are not done well. They need to change the label PQ meaning, and use a better scale, and explain it way way better than with us guessing.

 

 

The example I mentioned;

asm60cgc80owwclinkaucti.jpg

 

The CGC label does not tell you anything specific about the cover paper quality.

it is fine to disagree if you want (I am just the messenger), but cgc has stated that interior covers are included in the PQ... remember pq is not color (tan/tanning), but "quality".... tanned color interior comics can still be designated "ow/w" in structure, flexibility, etc...

If there is any brittleness to a cover, it is noted in the pq description (again, this is from CGC, not from me!)

 

here's an example of a cover only, that is slabbed, and assigned a pq:

 

allamerican16_3_zpseeca30ee.jpg

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Not sure if I'm too late to this or if you made the purchase, but I'd go with the second one...

No back scams were given, so I'm close on these BUT...

 

If it were me I'd grab the highest graded copy I could without marvel chipping. The chipping generally isn't graded as harshly by CGC, but the resell on a chipped AF15 is more diffeicult than on a clean edged Af15. Look at various sites and you can easily see this.

 

The second one has drawbacks of PQ and the stain, but I'd be happier with it personally.

If the second copy had TAN-Creme of some TAN-Off WHITE weirdness that would change things a bit.

 

You could flip that second one faster too if you choose to upgrade!

Have a good one,

Scott

 

Note something about the label PQ designation. That has nothing to do with the quality of the cover paper.

What you can see is only the covers, the label PQ only hints at what's inside, the interior page quality. What is more important, the inside PQ, or the cover PQ?

 

CGC grading takes PQ into account, so the worse the cover PQ is, the lower the grade should be. That poor quality cover of the 2nd copy is to be avoided, versus the 1st copy. That cover paper may be seriously tanned and brittle, because the label only tells you about the inside PQ.

Actually cover pq absolutely is part of cgc pq designation (they have confirmed this many times). The label tells you about the interior, including covers. Thought I would clarify that before misinformation got used to make a decision.

 

I disagree. I still have pictures of an ASM 60 with Off White To White pages listed on the label, but the CGC notes declare that it has tanning covers. The book looks 9.6, but graded as an 8.0, it sold for about $69 IIRC. Others have found examples similar to that one, and they have been posted in other threads.

 

CGC may change how they grade from one day to the next, year to year etc, but we still have to believe that sometimes things are not done well. They need to change the label PQ meaning, and use a better scale, and explain it way way better than with us guessing.

 

 

The example I mentioned;

asm60cgc80owwclinkaucti.jpg

 

The CGC label does not tell you anything specific about the cover paper quality.

it is fine to disagree if you want (I am just the messenger), but cgc has stated that interior covers are included in the PQ... remember pq is not color (tan/tanning), but "quality".... tanned color interior comics can still be designated "ow/w" in structure, flexibility, etc...

If there is any brittleness to a cover, it is noted in the pq description (again, this is from CGC, not from me!)

 

here's an example of a cover only, that is slabbed, and assigned a pq:

 

allamerican16_3_zpseeca30ee.jpg

 

 

Actions speak louder than words.

 

What VF books ever graded by CGC look that good, and have nothing significant in the grading notes? The 8.0 example I posted has nothing in the grading notes but the tanning cover(s). That book looks like any typical 9.6, and 9.4's that sometimes look that good have an unseen defect, usually mentioned in the notes. The tanning cover paper is the significant defect, about a five grade step defect.

 

For an otherwise apparent NM+ range of book, how could CGC hammer it five grade steps, if it has cover paper quality of OW/W? That example is the proof of their actions, the cover paper quality killed the grade. OW/W does not in any universe properly describe that poor level of paper quality.

 

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I think Gator was saying it has ow/w pages on the interior covers and tanning on those ow/w pages. So that the two attributes are independent. So it was not the Pq that destroyed the grade but rather a defect on ow/w pages. Just the same as say a stain or tear.

 

I think you conflate the two because they are similar in effect.

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Tanning is obviously a visible defect cgc discounts for (like a crease...it is there but doesn't generally affect the quality of the paper or cover that has the crease).

 

Now in some cases I am sure tanning will lower pq if it affects the quality. In other cases it obviously doesn't (really just depends)

 

All I am saying is that cgc includes cover pq in the pq designation. It is really not debatable , since the company states it

Now, will they make a mistake from time to time? Evidence seems to support that. But doesn't change the fact the cover pq is part of the pq designation and that is what I was pointing out to the inquirer trying to decide which copy to choose (thumbs u

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All I am saying is that cgc includes cover pq in the pq designation. It is really not debatable , since the company states it

 

Do you have a link? I am unaware of this and would like to be educated on it.

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All I am saying is that cgc includes cover pq in the pq designation. It is really not debatable , since the company states it

 

Do you have a link? I am unaware of this and would like to be educated on it.

I am not a keeper of links , nor do i know if they have ever posted here or posted their grading criteria anywhere for that matter (shrug)

Call cgc, that would be the easiest way to confirm, assuming they will. I have heard it first hand from multiple cgc presidents and employees so that is the basis of my information (thumbs u

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I agree 100% that CGC makes some weird grading decisions, but that's how quite a few people and ...possibly me ;-( make a few extra bucks.

 

That sounds bad, but if you know what you are looking for in certain books you can do very well.

 

I'd buy a book like that 8.0 Spidey and crack it open for trade re-sell all day long!

Imagine if that was a Hulk 181 that was 8.0 and looked the same.

 

I bought a 181 WHITE graded 7.5 that looked like a 9.0. Paid 700 cash and flipped it at the same convention for 1K cash out of the slab. Used the cash and another book to snag a 9.2 181 White from Mike Carbo at the very same show!

 

Just food for thought.

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