What I gained from the pressing thread

[MCMiles]

It's an irrational state of affairs.

 

Premiums used to be payed for HG books due to the difficulty in preserving them in pristine condition over the years.

 

Now premiums are being paid for a numerical grade that has absolutely nothing to do with how well a book has been preserved.

 

Wouldn't a higher grade mean the book has indeed been preserved better? Or are we saying that because pressing exists the number can't be trusted?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth I just want to know what your thought was behind this post. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just want to understand what you're saying.

 

Pressing does not increase the State of Preservation(ie; condition). That 9.2 that was pressed into a 9.8 was preserved as a 9.2, then structurally manipulated to achieve the 9.8 numerical CGC grade. It wasn't preserved in NM/MT condition. It suffered from a few bumps & dents along the way.....much like most copies.

 

Nothing special about an artificial 9.8

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. (thumbs u

 

Nothing special about it to you guys, but it is to plenty of other people. Why can't those folks have a right to thier opinion too?

 

How do you feel about a book that was a 9.2. Was stoted in the right conditions for x amount of time, and then when removed from storage, was a 9.8?

 

Do you suppose their are some books from various pedigrees out there that were not as pretty when they went in to storage as when they came out of storage?

 

 

Would love to see an example of a book that went from 9.2 to 9.8 due to storage.

 

 

 

Well, let's just say it is theoretically possible. I'm curious what your answers to the questions are?

 

I have a stack of ASM #361 that I personally stored. Some probably went to 9.8 during storage and went back to 9.4-9.6 later in thier stored life because they are so flat you can see the light indentation of the price tag on the bag in the cover.

 

Also, the idea that even a majority of 9.2s can become 9.8s is ridiculous. Do you think that a stored 9.0 can't come out of storage a 9.2? What does the jump in grade matter? Is it not a higher grade still?

 

It doesn't matter what you are shown, you will still feel the same way you do. I will still feel the same way I do. I can respect your opinion, but that is all it is is an opinion. Can the rest of us have ours?

[THE_BEYONDER]

It's an irrational state of affairs.

 

Premiums used to be payed for HG books due to the difficulty in preserving them in pristine condition over the years.

 

Now premiums are being paid for a numerical grade that has absolutely nothing to do with how well a book has been preserved.

 

Wouldn't a higher grade mean the book has indeed been preserved better? Or are we saying that because pressing exists the number can't be trusted?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth I just want to know what your thought was behind this post. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just want to understand what you're saying.

 

Pressing does not increase the State of Preservation(ie; condition). That 9.2 that was pressed into a 9.8 was preserved as a 9.2, then structurally manipulated to achieve the 9.8 numerical CGC grade. It wasn't preserved in NM/MT condition. It suffered from a few bumps & dents along the way.....much like most copies.

 

Nothing special about an artificial 9.8

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. (thumbs u

 

Nothing special about it to you guys, but it is to plenty of other people. Why can't those folks have a right to thier opinion too?

 

How do you feel about a book that was a 9.2. Was stoted in the right conditions for x amount of time, and then when removed from storage, was a 9.8?

 

Do you suppose their are some books from various pedigrees out there that were not as pretty when they went in to storage as when they came out of storage?

 

 

Would love to see an example of a book that went from 9.2 to 9.8 due to storage.

 

 

 

Well, let's just say it is theoretically possible. I'm curious what your answers to the questions are?

 

I have a stack of ASM #361 that I personally stored. Some probably went to 9.8 during storage and went back to 9.4-9.6 later in thier stored life because they are so flat you can see the light indentation of the price tag on the bag in the cover.

 

It doesn't matter what you are shown, you will still feel the same way you do. I will still feel the same way I do. I can respect your opinion, but that is all it is is an opinion. Can the rest of us have ours?

 

 

Not sure where you're trying to go with this discussion. I value books that were preserved in pristine condition, and attach little value to those that were structurally manipulated through the practice of pressing to appear like they were.

 

It's not complicated.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Just as everyone is entitled to disagree. (thumbs u

[THE_BEYONDER]

Also, the idea that even a majority of 9.2s can become 9.8s is ridiculous.

 

Yes it is. Not sure why you edited your post to include the above statement. I know what books are good pressing candidates & which ones are not.

[gaz973]

It's an irrational state of affairs.

 

Premiums used to be payed for HG books due to the difficulty in preserving them in pristine condition over the years.

 

Now premiums are being paid for a numerical grade that has absolutely nothing to do with how well a book has been preserved.

 

Wouldn't a higher grade mean the book has indeed been preserved better? Or are we saying that because pressing exists the number can't be trusted?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth I just want to know what your thought was behind this post. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just want to understand what you're saying.

 

Pressing does not increase the State of Preservation(ie; condition). That 9.2 that was pressed into a 9.8 was preserved as a 9.2, then structurally manipulated to achieve the 9.8 numerical CGC grade. It wasn't preserved in NM/MT condition. It suffered from a few bumps & dents along the way.....much like most copies.

 

Nothing special about an artificial 9.8

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. (thumbs u

 

Nothing special about it to you guys, but it is to plenty of other people. Why can't those folks have a right to thier opinion too?

How do you feel about a book that was a 9.2. Was stoted in the right conditions for x amount of time, and then when removed from storage, was a 9.8?

 

Do you suppose their are some books from various pedigrees out there that were not as pretty when they went in to storage as when they came out of storage?

 

Mike, you were quoting me here so can you tell me when I've ever tried to deny anyone elses opinion or preference? If you go through this thread (or any other that I've commented in), I think you'll find that I'm happy for everyone to be catered for.

[MCMiles]

Also, the idea that even a majority of 9.2s can become 9.8s is ridiculous.

 

Yes it is. Not sure why you edited your post to include the above statement. I know what books are good pressing candidates & which ones are not.

 

I wanted to state that because it seems like that example is used most often, and I'm sure it is used for dramatic effect.

 

I also wanted to use the example of 9.0s becoming 9.2s during optimal storage conditions because there is no way anyone can deny that is possible.

 

You are right. Everyone is allowed to disagree.

 

People disagree on this subject. Let's all show a little respect for each other and give it a rest.

 

I'm curious. How mant pressing threads have been started by pro-pressers? I can only think of two, and both of those were started by attention mongers, so those shouldn't count.

 

 

 

[gaz973]

Also, the idea that even a majority of 9.2s can become 9.8s is ridiculous. Do you think that a stored 9.0 can't come out of storage a 9.2? What does the jump in grade matter? Is it not a higher grade still?

 

It doesn't matter what you are shown, you will still feel the same way you do. I will still feel the same way I do. I can respect your opinion, but that is all it is is an opinion. Can the rest of us have ours?

 

OK, the difference to me is whether a book has been through conditions that it would normally go through (like being in a large stack of other comics) or that irt wouldn't normally go through in it's natural life (such as being in a comic press, possibly having heat or moisture applied). I can understand people wanting highly visible defects pressing out for their own collecting satisfaction. I don't really understand it so much when it's to iron out the tiniest flaws to get another CGC grade higher (though I fully understand that from a financial aspect).

However I don;t have a problem with other collectors doing this and I'm not sure why you seem to think that I want to deny others their opinion. I only started this thread to express mine.

[MCMiles]

It's an irrational state of affairs.

 

Premiums used to be payed for HG books due to the difficulty in preserving them in pristine condition over the years.

 

Now premiums are being paid for a numerical grade that has absolutely nothing to do with how well a book has been preserved.

 

Wouldn't a higher grade mean the book has indeed been preserved better? Or are we saying that because pressing exists the number can't be trusted?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth I just want to know what your thought was behind this post. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just want to understand what you're saying.

 

Pressing does not increase the State of Preservation(ie; condition). That 9.2 that was pressed into a 9.8 was preserved as a 9.2, then structurally manipulated to achieve the 9.8 numerical CGC grade. It wasn't preserved in NM/MT condition. It suffered from a few bumps & dents along the way.....much like most copies.

 

Nothing special about an artificial 9.8

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. (thumbs u

 

Nothing special about it to you guys, but it is to plenty of other people. Why can't those folks have a right to thier opinion too?

How do you feel about a book that was a 9.2. Was stoted in the right conditions for x amount of time, and then when removed from storage, was a 9.8?

 

Do you suppose their are some books from various pedigrees out there that were not as pretty when they went in to storage as when they came out of storage?

 

Mike, you were quoting me here so can you tell me when I've ever tried to deny anyone elses opinion or preference? If you go through this thread (or any other that I've commented in), I think you'll find that I'm happy for everyone to be catered for.

 

You are right. I'm sorry that seemed as though it was directed at you, and it wasn't necessarily directed at Chris either. I was actually thinking to myself today, after reading one of your posts, that it was refreshing to see a level headed opinion and statements that are not painting as pro-pressers as greedy and evil coming from that side of the debate.

[gaz973]

It's an irrational state of affairs.

 

Premiums used to be payed for HG books due to the difficulty in preserving them in pristine condition over the years.

 

Now premiums are being paid for a numerical grade that has absolutely nothing to do with how well a book has been preserved.

 

Wouldn't a higher grade mean the book has indeed been preserved better? Or are we saying that because pressing exists the number can't be trusted?

 

I don't want to put words in your mouth I just want to know what your thought was behind this post. I'm not saying I agree or disagree, just want to understand what you're saying.

 

Pressing does not increase the State of Preservation(ie; condition). That 9.2 that was pressed into a 9.8 was preserved as a 9.2, then structurally manipulated to achieve the 9.8 numerical CGC grade. It wasn't preserved in NM/MT condition. It suffered from a few bumps & dents along the way.....much like most copies.

 

Nothing special about an artificial 9.8

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. (thumbs u

 

Nothing special about it to you guys, but it is to plenty of other people. Why can't those folks have a right to thier opinion too?

How do you feel about a book that was a 9.2. Was stoted in the right conditions for x amount of time, and then when removed from storage, was a 9.8?

 

Do you suppose their are some books from various pedigrees out there that were not as pretty when they went in to storage as when they came out of storage?

 

Mike, you were quoting me here so can you tell me when I've ever tried to deny anyone elses opinion or preference? If you go through this thread (or any other that I've commented in), I think you'll find that I'm happy for everyone to be catered for.

 

You are right. I'm sorry that seemed as though it was directed at you, and it wasn't necessarily directed at Chris either. I was actually thinking to myself today, after reading one of your posts, that it was refreshing to see a level headed opinion and statements that are not painting as pro-pressers as greedy and evil coming from that side of the debate.

 

Thanks for that. (thumbs u

 

I wanted to say to you that I've noticed you proactively disclosing in your selling threads and I greatly respected that, especially given that you've stated before that you are not a believer in the need for it. It speaks volumes for your integrity.

Beyond that, I greatly respect your opinion in general.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Let's all show a little respect for each other and give it a rest.

 

What does "give it a rest" mean?

 

If people keep manipulating books.....people will continue to discuss it.

 

Want people to stop talking about it?

 

No problem. Get everyone to stop pressing books.

 

 

I don't make these discussions personal, but some members of the pro-pressing crowd sure do.

 

 

Sincerely yours,

 

The Lunatic Fringe

 

 

[awe4one]

They don't want it discussed for obvious reasons...

 

Jim

[MCMiles]

Also, the idea that even a majority of 9.2s can become 9.8s is ridiculous. Do you think that a stored 9.0 can't come out of storage a 9.2? What does the jump in grade matter? Is it not a higher grade still?

 

It doesn't matter what you are shown, you will still feel the same way you do. I will still feel the same way I do. I can respect your opinion, but that is all it is is an opinion. Can the rest of us have ours?

 

OK, the difference to me is whether a book has been through conditions that it would normally go through (like being in a large stack of other comics) or that irt wouldn't normally go through in it's natural life (such as being in a comic press, possibly having heat or moisture applied). I can understand people wanting highly visible defects pressing out for their own collecting satisfaction. I don't really understand it so much when it's to iron out the tiniest flaws to get another CGC grade higher (though I fully understand that from a financial aspect).

However I don;t have a problem with other collectors doing this and I'm not sure why you seem to think that I want to deny others their opinion. I only started this thread to express mine.

 

I think I just covered this in my last post. I don't think you want to deny others thier opinions. I probably shouldn't have posted that in your thread.

 

I understand your reasoning on why you would rather have a book that achieved it's state of preservation by normal conditions. It makes perfect sense.

 

To me it is the same end result. So it doesn't matter to me. I also like pressing because it adds another aspect to the hobby. I love comics for what they are. Comic books. A huge part of American culture. I love them for the nostalgia, the art, the stories, and the collectibility. I also love the buying, selling, trading, grading, searching and discovering. Yes, i like finding a gem and selling it for a profit. I like finding a gem that with a very noninvasive procedure can become a fantastic gem. Not just a gem because it one of few that exists, a gem because it is a sweet to behold, even if helped along.

 

I enjoy looking for books that have pressing potential as much as I ever liked looking for any high grade, rare, undervalued, or under priced book. I'm fully aware that pressing can produce three or four 9.8s on the census rather than one or none. I'm sure it can and may hurt the value of that one existing copy or the 9.6s, but I understand that, and incorporate that in to my colllecting and dealing. I don't think it will flood the census with 9.8s large multiples, like many would suggest. i definitely don't think it is going to kill the market. Heck, i'd say right now it is helping the raw back issue market.

 

In conclusion, pressing is just another aspect of an ever evolving hobby, which many of us have accepted and embraced. Many of us use it, as well as all of the other dynamics in the hobbby, to enjoy the hobby, build our collections, and yes - make money.

 

 

 

[Monstro]

i don't see whats so bad with talking about it. it's an interesting subject.

[MCMiles]

Let's all show a little respect for each other and give it a rest.

 

What does "give it a rest" mean?

 

If people keep manipulating books.....people will continue to discuss it.

 

Want people to stop talking about it?

 

No problem. Get everyone to stop pressing books.

 

 

I don't make these discussions personal, but some members of the pro-pressing crowd sure do.

 

 

Sincerely yours,

 

The Lunatic Fringe

 

 

I feel the exact opposite.

[MCMiles]

They don't want it discussed for obvious reasons...

 

Jim

 

What reasons would those be?

 

That because with every pressing thread more and more people press books?

[THE_BEYONDER]

In conclusion, pressing is just another aspect of an ever evolving hobby, which many of us have accepted and embraced.

 

 

And many of us have rejected the practice, and refuse to engage in it.

 

 

Hence these fun-filled debates .

 

 

 

[awe4one]

They don't want it discussed for obvious reasons...

 

Jim

 

What reasons would those be?

 

That because with every pressing thread more and more people press books?

 

No...as I've stated in past posts, pressers would rather act as if it didn't matter. And some sell on the belief that they'll deal with buyers who either don't care or are ignorant of what they're buying. The only problem is there are people that do care and will discuss the practice with the same regularity as any other aspect of the hobby.

 

Jim

[gaz973]

They don't want it discussed for obvious reasons...

 

Jim

 

What reasons would those be?

 

That because with every pressing thread more and more people press books?

 

That's probably a very valid point, I imagine the pressing threads on the boards have probably inspired more people to get books pressed than to discourage them from pressing. At least with discussions like this, everyone can make a more informed decision on what they do though, so that can't be a bad thing (in theory).

[arexcrooke]

They don't want it discussed for obvious reasons...

 

Jim

Im assuming that you are hinting that it will hurt the bottom line. Its never hurt mine and Ive always disclosed.

 

Before I speak for others like Mike or Joey or Brent or anyone else who discloses, it woould be nice to see if their bottom line is affected

 

Although i seriously doubt that to be true

[kc120us]

They don't want it discussed for obvious reasons...

 

Jim

 

What reasons would those be?

 

That because with every pressing thread more and more people press books?

 

No...as I've stated in past posts, pressers would rather act as if it didn't matter. And some sell on the belief that they'll deal with buyers who either don't care or are ignorant of what they're buying. The only problem is there are people that do care and will discuss the practice with the same regularity as any other aspect of the hobby.

 

Jim

 

I would agree with most of what you said Jim except that I wonder if people tune into these threads for the small "good-natured and intelligent" debate portion of these threads or for the "Jerry Springeresque" fights and flame wars that so often break out with threads like these. And it starts from both sides of the arguement. How often do we hear "what? No one has been suspended yet?" during this kind of thread? That is what I find distasteful about all of this. It's like rubberneckers on the highway. I don't mind the occasional pressing thread to keep the honest debate open. I like a good debate. But, I sometimes wonder when some of these threads are started, what the real goal is.

[Flaming_Telepath]

If there is to be a genuine move towards detente with this issue, there must be proactive disclosure.

 

There is much talk about 'respecting the opinion of others', and I have no problem with that as a principal...it's how the world should work anyway, no?

 

So, whilst there is a portion of the collecting community who require proactive disclosure, and they are not being catered for, there is a lack of 'respect'. We are actually being told what's good for us, or we can 'go shop elsewhere'.

 

Now, if all the pro-pressing arguments are to be believed (and I have no concrete evidence that they can't), there is no reason why proactive disclosure would hurt the pro-pressing portion of the community. Given the comments made by many proponents, it wouldn't even register on their radar.

 

So, please respect those who it does matter to. Proactively disclose and stop merely paying lip-service to 'loving the hobby and all the people in it'. (thumbs u