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TMNT #1 Club
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3,735 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, GM8 said:
On 6/21/2020 at 11:27 AM, lou_fine said:

I would tend to agree with this and see the record $90K sale as really more of an outlier at this current point in time.  (thumbsu

Ok the scoop is that the $59K sale is legit, confirmed via phone with CC this morning as a consignment/BIN sale that ended on 4/30/20. It is the same book that sold last summer for $90K. Sooo...our last sales of 9.8's boil down to: $90K, 52.8K, 50K, 59K.

Greatly appreciate you taking the time to call in and dig up all of this info for the rest of us lazy boardies like me.  :applause:

So, the timelime and venues for these 4 sales were:  1) $90K at HA in August 2019;  2) $52.8K at HA in November 2019;  3) $50K at CL in December;  and 4) the $90K HA copy reselling for $59K at the end of April 2020 as a BIN consignment.  hm

Hmmm....................this more than confirms that the $90K Heritage sale back in August of 2019 was more of an outlier sale than anything else and also makes me wonder why the buyer was in such a hurry to sell it, especially at such a substantially lower price point.  Probably had something to do with the current economic environment at the time, but I guess only the buyer/consignor would know.  (shrug)

Thsi would then place the current value of a CGC 9.8 graded copy of TMNT 1 back into the $50K to $60K price range that most boardies suspect is where it is.  Will be interesting to see if the current CL copy is able to hit its Reserve price (whatever that is) and I guess only time will tell.  :taptaptap:

 

1 hour ago, GM8 said:

Also, the ebay book is back up, same selller who also confirmed he has it listed at CC for $85K. So maybe he just wanted a photo of the back and poached one from another book. It's possible if he has it in a safe deposit box or not in hand.

Now, this part doesn't make any legitimate sense to me at all since I thought he had told you that the book was sold and already paid for at a completed $79,950 price point.  ???

Definitely sounds a bit sketchy to me if he is poaching scans from other copies and then initiating completed "non sales" at substantially higher than market price points on eBay when nothing has actually been sold.  :screwy:  (tsk)

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9 minutes ago, Keys_Collector said:
50 minutes ago, TMNT said:

Anyone know what 7.0 - 8.0 are fetching? So I can prepare the old piggy bank... :)

From Gocollect:

fff.jpg

Well, it's hard to say how accurate those fair market values would be since they have the CGC 9.8 graded copies listed at $80K , whereas the last 3 sales actually took place in the $50K to $60K price range.

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8 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Well, it's hard to say how accurate those fair market values would be since they have the CGC 9.8 graded copies listed at $80K , whereas the last 3 sales actually took place in the $50K to $60K price range.

It doesn't look like they haven't updated the sales of the 9.8s from this year.  I don't think its a stretch though to say that the 7.0-8.0 that TMNT is looking for will fall between that 5750-7500 price which is why I even posted it.

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35 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Greatly appreciate you taking the time to call in and dig up all of this info for the rest of us lazy boardies like me.  :applause:

So, the timelime and venues for these 4 sales were:  1) $90K at HA in August 2019;  2) $52.8K at HA in November 2019;  3) $50K at CL in December;  and 4) the $90K HA copy reselling for $59K at the end of April 2020 as a BIN consignment.  hm

It's no problem since I keep a spreadsheet of these sales.  Yes, those are correct.

35 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Hmmm....................this more than confirms that the $90K Heritage sale back in August of 2019 was more of an outlier sale than anything else and also makes me wonder why the buyer was in such a hurry to sell it, especially at such a substantially lower price point.  Probably had something to do with the current economic environment at the time, but I guess only the buyer/consignor would know.  (shrug)

Thsi would then place the current value of a CGC 9.8 graded copy of TMNT 1 back into the $50K to $60K price range that most boardies suspect is where it is.  Will be interesting to see if the current CL copy is able to hit its Reserve price (whatever that is) and I guess only time will tell.  :taptaptap:

Agreed. Although with stock prices soaring again, who knows where things go. Heritage clearly has access to a more higher end group of buyers than the traditional CL, CC and ebay. They have consistently sold books higher than market prices. Remember the 9.6 that sold for $26K back in 2017, when 9.8's were going for just a bit higher? That was a HA sale too.

35 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Now, this part doesn't make any legitimate sense to me at all since I thought he had told you that the book was sold and already paid for at a completed $79,950 price point.  ???

Definitely sounds a bit sketchy to me if he is poaching scans from other copies and then initiating completed "non sales" at substantially higher than market price points on eBay when nothing has actually been sold.  :screwy:  (tsk)

He said it was sold but not paid for yet. It is sketchy to use other photos but whatevs...maybe he's just lazy.

There are a few high-end TMNT resellers out there and they seem to have an endless reservoir of cash and high end, highly sought-after Turtles books. Sales on ebay are often hit or miss as far as using for price discovery.

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On 6/22/2020 at 2:22 PM, szav said:
On 6/22/2020 at 2:16 PM, lou_fine said:

Why wait since I can ALREADY RIGHT NOW tell you the story of how I had a chance to buy a first print #1 issue back in the day and passed on it..........  lol

Thank you for regaling us with the tale.  I just wanted to needle you a bit because I know you don’t care for the book.  Appreciate you playing along.

 

On 6/22/2020 at 3:13 PM, Lethal_Collector said:
On 6/22/2020 at 2:21 PM, Ryan. said:

That story was terrible. 

Yeah, I'm still looking for the 'depressed' emoji.  Sorry to hear that man, but gotta respect the honesty!

Actually, not really that terrible or depressing at all as that was most likely back in the 1986/87 time period and the comic book market was completely different back then.  (thumbsu

That was when the squarebound copy of Avengers 93 with the gorgeous artwork by Neal Adams was still the big go to book to acquire for the BA and books like the Hulk 181 was still valued only in the $20+ price range in the guide and Spidey 129 was still waiting to be broken out since Spidey 121 & 122 were the ones to get.  So, to even think of paying a whopping $300 or at huge multiples to top of guide guide to take a huge flyer on a book was just not being done at that point in time and definitely something that most collectors would not be rushing into.  Especially on a B&W book from 2 unknown creators and an never heard of publisher was rather unimagineable at the time.  hm  :fear:

Hence, no real regrets since I am pretty much 100% sure I would still have done the exact same thing if given the chance again if the same market circumstances were still in place.  Of course, we all know about the B&W book & bust that would take place in the comic book marketplace during the ensuring few years after that.  So, if anybody here wants to pay good money for first issue classics like Adolescent Radioactive Black Belt Hamsters, Boris the Bear, Samurai Penguin, etc., be sure to let me know.  :facepalm:  lol

 

On 6/22/2020 at 2:22 PM, szav said:

Im sure you have far more stories of success than failure making these sorts of decisions.  

Although I don't have any real regrets about the TMNT 1 non-purchase (except from a financial missed opportunity POV :(), there would come another non-purchase deal a year or two later that I regretted the minute that I said No and still regret to this very day.  Got a phone call from a power broker in the comic book marketplace who I had gotten to know since I had started to shift my interest from new books to GA after a brief flirtation with pre-hero GA books in the latter part of the 80's.  :luhv:

Anyways, he calls to tell me that he had just picked up a supposedly uber HG set of Spidey 2 to 10 and that I could have it for the grand sum of only $1,000 which was around top of Mint guide price at the time or a bit under.  The set had been compiled by a very well known collector (mostly GA) who had meticulously upgraded the set over the past 20 years whenever he found nicer copies of each issue.  He told me that since I had arrived on the GA scene too late and had missed out on all of his Church Mile High keys (as if I could even had afforded them in the first place  :screwy:) he thought that this might be a good buy going forward for me, especially considering that I was not a deep pocketed collector.  Well, back then Marvel SA books including the keys had been sitting in the doldrums and going absolutely nowhere for most of the decade and in fact, had even dropped down in the guide for a year or so during those early years.  Anyways, he told me that he would hold onto the books for me for about 10 days or so to give me time to think about it and to call him back with my answer.  hm  :taptaptap:

After about a week, I receive another call from him and he informed me that another one of his regular buyers with much deeper pockets had expressed interest in acquiring the set and he was wondering if I had made up my mind yet.  Told him that I hadn't and would give him a call back in the next day or so with my answer which he didn't have an issue with.  After thinking about it for a day or so and remembering his constant night time lectures on always collecting the highest grade possible and from the keys or first issues on outwards or else you'll never have any money left when the keys or real good quality books do come along, I decided to say NO since it did not have a Spidey 1 in the set.  I somehow knew in the back of my mind that if I had the Spidey 2 - 10 set, I would end up trying my best to hunt down a Spidey 1 to complete the set and would most likely end up paying ridiculous money for it as it seem the SA Marvels keys and first issues were just starting to wake up from their decade long slumber in the deep freeze.  Looking back now, I really should have been more flexible with my stupid rule as that would have been the perfect time to go into SA Marvels as history has now shown us, they would start their decades long ascent in the late 80's and haven't really looked back since.  doh!  :cry:

Definitely still have regrets to this day about this poor decision that I had made not so much from a missed financial opportunity point of view, since being a long term collector, I know that those books would still be in my personal collection and not sold off.  Regrets really more from the collector's POV and fact that those issues would be the first appearances and origins for many of Spider-Man's key villians which I could have picked up in HG condition at a very rerasonable price point.  :makepoint:  :cry:  :cry:

 

Edited by lou_fine
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1 hour ago, lou_fine said:

So, if anybody here wants to pay good money for first issue classics like Adolescent Radioactive Black Belt Hamsters, Boris the Bear, Samurai Penguin, etc., be sure to let me know.  :facepalm:  lol

 

Thanks but I have it covered already.

AdolescentRadioactiveBlackbeltHamsters1cgc98.jpg

GeriatricGangreneJujitsuGerbils1cgc98.jpg

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16 hours ago, szav said:

 

GeriatricGangreneJujitsuGerbils1cgc98.jpg

Hey, a book which I personally haven't seen before and it looks like you've got yourself a real winner here.  ^^

Especially since there's only 2 graded copies of this beauty here and you've got the highest grade copy in the entire universe right here.  Now, this is in the same category as Centaurs or some of the pre-hero GA DC books where there are less than a handful of graded copies after some 20 years of certification.  Not so sure about the demand though.  :bigsmile:

After seeing this, who wants a copy of TMNT 1 with graded copies already approaching the 1,000 mark in total, and over 30 copies also already graded to date at the CGC 9.8 condition level.  Let's not forget the raw copies that's still sitting out there in private collections that has yet to cross the grading table.  Just wait until these Geriatric Gerbils movie rumors hit the social media and they'll be scampering past the turtles and making them eat dust (value wise) just like that.  lol

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23 hours ago, GM8 said:

Heritage clearly has access to a more higher end group of buyers than the traditional CL, CC and ebay. They have consistently sold books higher than market prices.

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this statement here as I believe each of these auction houses have their own particular niche customer base.  hm

For example, I believe that Heritage clearly has the lead by far when it comes to the original art market.  Yet, when it comes to certain comic books such as Action 1 or the high deman pre-Robin 'Tec books, I believe CC tends to be the market maker in this area.  Now, if you are talking about CGC highest graded copies of more recent BA books (especially with links to movies and TV shows), I believe that CL tends to get the highest prices because that's where the CGC label collectors seems to hang around.   (thumbsu

I think in a lot of cases, it just happens to depend on your timing and also luck in terms of being able to get the right sets of eyeballs onto a particular book in an auction when it does come up for sale.  I still think the $90K TMNT 1 result was more of an outlier than anything else, which is kind of confirmed as HA was able to follow this sale up with one for only $52.8K a few months later.  Looks like CC was able to hit a slightly higher price point with their $59K BIN sale, although I still don't understand why the seller would want to take such a big hit on the book after paying $90K only several months earlier and also why he did not reconsign the book back with HA.  I guess his pocket might not have been as deep as initially thought.  (shrug)

 

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26 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Hey, a book which I personally haven't seen before and it looks like you've got yourself a real winner here.  ^^

Especially since there's only 2 graded copies of this beauty here and you've got the highest grade copy in the entire universe right here.  Now, this is in the same category as Centaurs or some of the pre-hero GA DC books where there are less than a handful of graded copies after some 20 years of certification.  Not so sure about the demand though.  :bigsmile:

After seeing this, who wants a copy of TMNT 1 with graded copies already approaching the 1,000 mark in total, and over 30 copies also already graded to date at the CGC 9.8 condition level.  Let's not forget the raw copies that's still sitting out there in private collections that has yet to cross the grading table.  Just wait until these Geriatric Gerbils movie rumors hit the social media and they'll be scampering past the turtles and making them eat dust (value wise) just like that.  lol

They’re very common but actually pretty hard to come by in minty fresh condition, due to the very cheap paper and having been relegated to dollar bins where they were thumbed through and passed over and not generally handled with care.

After all who handles garbage with care?  They have a lot of nostalgic value to me anyway.

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22 minutes ago, szav said:

They’re very common but actually pretty hard to come by in minty fresh condition, due to the very cheap paper and having been relegated to dollar bins where they were thumbed through and passed over and not generally handled with care.

After all who handles garbage with care?  They have a lot of nostalgic value to me anyway.

Well, you never know...............even "relatively common" books which are certainly not scarce like Hulk 181, TMNT 1, goes up like crazy if the right demand factors are in place. (thumbsu

:idea:  Toss out a few rumors about a potential Geriatric Gerbils movie and watch as everyone's garbage will all of of sudden become everyone's treasure just like that.  :devil:

Edited by lou_fine
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17 hours ago, szav said:

GeriatricGangreneJujitsuGerbils1cgc98.jpg

 

44 minutes ago, szav said:

After all who handles garbage with care?

When I see your "beauty" of a book here in all its wonderful glory, it reminded me of exactly what was going through my mind in terms of "who in their frigging right mind would pay $300 smackers for that piece of garbage" when he handed me the TMNT 1 to take a look at.  :screwy:

Especially at a time when collectible in demand books like Hulk 181, ASM 121 & 122 were valued at only around $20 in the guide back then.  :takeit:  And yet, I then ended up paying $40 for the so-called Signed and Limited Edition of Miller's Dark Knight because I was a big fan of his brand of writing and artwork back then.  :luhv:   doh!

Then again, I guess I was never really much of an underground type of guy who I couldn't ever see myself paying something like $690K for this piece of Crumb art that sold at the end of last year in one of the HA Signature Auctions:  :whatthe:

Original Comic Art:Covers, Robert Crumb Your Hytone Comix #nn "Stoned Agin!" Inside Back Cover Original Art (Apex Novelties, 1971)....

I guess I am just not a connoisseur of the intricate details of finer art, but then again, I imagine it's really a case of to each, their own.  (thumbsu

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9 minutes ago, cyberjad1 said:

I have what I think is an interesting story. About 6 years ago I decided to get out of comics - it was just time to move one. I sold off all my high dollar stuff and broke up my top tier TMNT collection, along with selling off a lot of other stuff. From what I recall I just kept some of the less valuable things (at the time) that I liked, with one exception, a copy of TMNT #1 2nd print.

The #1 was kept because although it was raw, I have graded a lot of these and I am confident it's a 9.8. One day I planned to get it graded, but have just not gotten around to it. I liked keeping it also because I bought it from Mirage and it came from Peter's collection, which I have documented.

Yesterday, I asked on Facebook what those are going for these days and was shocked. So, I took a look in my old collection and stuff and thought I would see what I have still...

Turns out I have a run of books 2-10 that I had graded 9.8 from Peter's collection. I also have a copy of Raphael and Donatello. Also, I saved a copy of a #3 variant that is a 9.6 signed inside by Peter and Kevin - this was not from Peter's collection. I had forgotten about all this stuff after 6 years.

Anyways, I just kept some stuff I liked and it turns out I have a pretty OK TMNT collection still. Nice find yesterday after a challenging day.

 

Also, if any of my TMNT collector friends remember me from back when - this is Cyberjad - Hi! I will let you know I have not totally checked out over the past 6 years. During that time I had a child (priorities changed) and he has met Kevin twice. Kevin and his wife were way, way nicer than they had to be with him - GREAT PEOPLE!

 

Hello! @cyberjad1 @cyberjad as you can see by the tag, your old account is still here :) and after they boards migration of 2016, there was a link to merge old accounts, the ones that needed merging had a "1" at the end of the name as yours does. I can no longer find the "linky" to request merge, but I'm sure if you call or pm a mod, they'd be more than happy to help!

 

Anyway lol 

Glad to here that after a tough day, you were brought some Joy, and it sounds like you have the priorities straight, glad to hear TMNT is still bringing the FUN!!  ^^ 

:tink: 

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On 6/24/2020 at 1:23 PM, lou_fine said:

I wouldn't necessarily agree with this statement here as I believe each of these auction houses have their own particular niche customer base.  hm

For example, I believe that Heritage clearly has the lead by far when it comes to the original art market.  Yet, when it comes to certain comic books such as Action 1 or the high deman pre-Robin 'Tec books, I believe CC tends to be the market maker in this area.  Now, if you are talking about CGC highest graded copies of more recent BA books (especially with links to movies and TV shows), I believe that CL tends to get the highest prices because that's where the CGC label collectors seems to hang around.   (thumbsu

I think in a lot of cases, it just happens to depend on your timing and also luck in terms of being able to get the right sets of eyeballs onto a particular book in an auction when it does come up for sale.  I still think the $90K TMNT 1 result was more of an outlier than anything else, which is kind of confirmed as HA was able to follow this sale up with one for only $52.8K a few months later.  Looks like CC was able to hit a slightly higher price point with their $59K BIN sale, although I still don't understand why the seller would want to take such a big hit on the book after paying $90K only several months earlier and also why he did not reconsign the book back with HA.  I guess his pocket might not have been as deep as initially thought.  (shrug)

 

You may be right about BA books and timing in general. I don't really follow other high-end books at CC or CL. But with regards to TMNT, if I had a high-end book I would absolutely sell it on Heritage. The two biggest sales to the upside were both there.

 

BTW: the CL 9.8 is now at $46K with reserve met! Someone is going to own this copy when the auction ends.

https://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FSEARCH.ASP%3FPreviewCode%3D2020june%26where%3Dauctions%26title%3DTurtles%26GO%3DGO%26ItemType%3DCB%23Item_1404932&id=1404932&itemType=0

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Also curious of the value of 9.8 #1 2nd prints for 2020/21

(Just annoyed with definite TMNT #1 9.8 & more than plausible Turtlemania Gold market manipulation past year and any lovely outliers that have come forth)

PS

GM8, thank-you for all the stats/facts you investigate, gather and provide to us in the TMNT forums🤘🏆

Edited by Icculus308win
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On 6/26/2020 at 4:52 AM, GM8 said:

Well, it looks like it has gone up by just one more bid increment some 10 days later at it is now sitting at $48K with less than 20 hours remaining.  hm

I guess it might just hit the $50K mark, but not siure how much more it will get after that as I guess only time will tell as the clock winds down.  :taptaptap:

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