TMNT #1 Club
24 24

2,138 posts in this topic

7 posts

Dumb question. 

Whats the difference between volume 1 : change is constant and volume 1: shell unleashed? Are they to dofferent series or is it one one collects 6 issues and the other collects 12?

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12,568 posts
5 hours ago, Nelsond0312 said:

Dumb question. 

Whats the difference between volume 1 : change is constant and volume 1: shell unleashed? Are they to dofferent series or is it one one collects 6 issues and the other collects 12?

Thanks

Neither of those are from Volume 1 of TMNT, which was published by Mirage Comics from 1984 to 1993. I think you’re talking about TPB’s from the IDW series

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 posts
10 minutes ago, dupont2005 said:

Neither of those are from Volume 1 of TMNT, which was published by Mirage Comics from 1984 to 1993. I think you’re talking about TPB’s from the IDW series

Thats exactly what im talking about!  Sorry, should have put idw in front of it. So is the difference one has more issues then the other? Just debating which one to buy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
355 posts
On 5/9/2019 at 4:07 AM, Nelsond0312 said:

Dumb question. 

Whats the difference between volume 1 : change is constant and volume 1: shell unleashed? Are they to dofferent series or is it one one collects 6 issues and the other collects 12?

Thanks

@Nelsond0312  Change Is Constant collects 4 issues (TMNT #1-4 from IDW) and Shell Unleashed collects 12 issues (TMNT #1-12 from IDW).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
522 posts

Final sale over at HA for a 9.4 OW/W Blue label: $10,200 (includes buyer's premium). Slightly down from the past three sales of $12,500 (W) on 2/6/19 on ebay, $11,000 (OW/W) on 5/27/18 also on ebay, as well as $10,100 (OW/W)  on 3/30/18 on ebay.

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-94-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7209-92170.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
355 posts

Finally got this piece of Turtles history back from CGC.  TMNT #1 Full Counterfeit.  Although not a legit copy of TMNT #1, it is so well done that it's actually quite impressive.  

 

TMNT-01-Counterfeit_CGC-9.0_front-top.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,987 posts

Very, very cool - Congratulations🤘

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,559 posts
5 hours ago, rich_TMNT said:

Finally got this piece of Turtles history back from CGC.  TMNT #1 Full Counterfeit.  Although not a legit copy of TMNT #1, it is so well done that it's actually quite impressive.  

 

TMNT-01-Counterfeit_CGC-9.0_front-top.jpg

My computer wouldn't load the link. What are the tells?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
355 posts
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Callaway29 said:

My computer wouldn't load the link. What are the tells?

Here are the details from the link since it's not working for you:

A true counterfeit copy of TMNT #1 by Mirage Studios (a “Full Counterfeit”). This counterfeit would be nearly impossible to detect without knowing a LOT about the TMNT #1 books and without direct comparison against an authentic copy of TMNT #1.  This counterfeit has interior newsprint pages and a cover that is near-identical to an authentic (i.e., with the “Gobbledygook” ad on the inside back cover, glossy cover stock).  However, there are key areas that identify this as a counterfeit (or, at least different from an authentic TMNT #1 1st printing).  Please refer to the pictures for visuals of these differences; NOTE that the counterfeit is always the raw / ungraded copy in the pictures where a CGC graded copy appears.  Magazine size (7 5/16″ x 10 7/8″), glossy cover.

  • The lighter red color, which appears almost as a dark pink when compared to an authentic copy of TMNT #1.
  • The absence of the very tiny red or red/white cross-hatching in the dark shadows of the front and back cover artwork; on the background buildings, the Turtles’ bodies, and (most notably) in Shredder’s shadows. The counterfeit renders these dark areas completely black with no red or red/white cross-hatching.
  • In certain areas of the front cover where the red color meets the black, there is a very slight separation between the red and black where you can see white.  This is most clearly seen within the second “T” of “TURTLES,” around the sword blood within the “S” of “TURTLES,” and down along the entire right edge of the front cover artwork.  While this same separation seems to exist on authentic copies of TMNT #1, the separation is much more exaggerated on the counterfeit.
  • Across the middle of the back cover (from left to right) there are scratch marks in the fully black portion that then progress into smudging within the artwork.  This likely was damage that occurred to the master image / negative used to produce this counterfeit cover, causing all copies of the counterfeits made using this method to have this issue.
  • The front and back cover images and lettering are positioned just slightly higher than an authentic TMNT #1.  This is very hard to see unless compared directly with an authentic TMNT #1.
  • The Gobbledygook ad on the inside back cover is just slightly cut off on the right side.  The upper right corner of the Gobbledygook #2 image is cut off.
  • Both staples are positioned approx. 1/2″ higher than the staples in an authentic TMNT #1 (at least, when compared with my copy of TMNT #1).  However, this would likely not be a reliable method of identification since stapling location is probably somewhat variable, even among two authentic copies of TMNT #1.

Multiple different types of TMNT #1 counterfeits have been identified over the years.  Most are fairly easy to spot since they typically are actually 2nd or 3rd printings that have had their printing designation on the inside front cover bleached out / erased.  Those can be easily spotted by simply looking at the ad on the inside back cover and/or the address listed at the bottom of the inside front cover.  I actually don’t even regard these as “true” counterfeits since they are really just “damaged” 2nd or 3rd printings.  There is also another counterfeit version I’ve heard of that is supposed to have very white non-newsprint body pages but I’ve never seen a copy of that counterfeit before (and I’m not sure it even really exists since it would be super-easy to identify from the stark white pages alone).  This specific counterfeit is the most highly sought-after counterfeit of TMNT #1 given that it is a truly identical reproduction in all aspects, including newsprint pages, no printing designation, the Dover, NH address, and the ad for “Gobbledygook” on the inside back cover.

Here are the three different counterfeit classifications for TMNT #1:

  1. Full Counterfeit – cover and interior pages were reproductions. The entire book is a forgery / re-creation.
  2. Cover Counterfeit – cover is counterfeit and placed over body pages of 2nd or 3rd printing (usually 3rd printing).  Only the cover is a forgery / re-creation.
  3. 2nd & 3rd Printing “Counterfeit” – 2nd or 3rd printing copies with their printing information on the inside front cover bleached out or erased.  None of the book is a forgery / re-creation – it is a fully original 2nd or 3rd printing copy.
    • These are just vandalized 2nd and 3rd printing copies and shouldn’t ever get labeled as counterfeit because they are counterfeit only when trying to be passed off as a 1st printing – but they aren’t reproductions. They are damaged original 2nd or 3rd printing copies.
Edited by rich_TMNT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
522 posts
Posted (edited)

A 9.8 is coming to auction over on Heritage on 7/12. This one looks like its first time being publicly sold (at least going back to 2005 where my data starts). It's one of only 28 9.8's out there, according to the CGC census (24 Universal, 1 Qualified, 3 SS). Last sales were $38.2K on 5/12/18 and $35.8K on 2/23/18.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/p/7211-78003.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Any guesses what the final price is (including buyer's premium)?  In my opinion, it tops the last sale and gets into the $50K area due to strength in the recent auction of the Turtlemania gold as well as length of time since a 9.8 TMNT #1 has been on the market. The US equities market overall strength helps also.

Edited by GM8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,137 posts
2 hours ago, GM8 said:

A 9.8 is coming to auction over on Heritage on 7/12. This one looks like its first time being publicly sold (at least going back to 2005 where my data starts). It's one of only 28 9.8's out there, according to the CGC census (24 Universal, 1 Qualified, 3 SS). Last sales were $38.2K on 5/12/18 and $35.8K on 2/23/18.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/modern-age-1980-present-/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-1-mirage-studios-1984-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/p/7211-78003.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Any guesses what the final price is (including buyer's premium)?  In my opinion, it tops the last sale and gets into the $50K area due to strength in the recent auction of the Turtlemania gold as well as length of time since one has been on the market. The US equities market overall strength helps also.

I could definitely see an increase in price since the last recorded sales were more than 1 year ago.  I've been buying and selling TMNT 1 in the 7-9.0 range for the last 10 years.  I never paid attention to the Turtlemania gold; It didn't affect my demand for the book. 2c

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,892 posts
On 5/21/2019 at 2:59 PM, rich_TMNT said:

Finally got this piece of Turtles history back from CGC.  TMNT #1 Full Counterfeit.  Although not a legit copy of TMNT #1, it is so well done that it's actually quite impressive.  

 

TMNT-01-Counterfeit_CGC-9.0_front-top.jpg

Who made this?  Is anyone else making more of these?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
355 posts
13 hours ago, Wolverinex said:

Who made this?  Is anyone else making more of these?

It's unknown who made these counterfeits so we can't know how many were made.  Lots of details about this counterfeit here if you're interested.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,892 posts
5 hours ago, rich_TMNT said:

It's unknown who made these counterfeits so we can't know how many were made.  Lots of details about this counterfeit here if you're interested.

I wonder if anyone could ever make an EXACT clone of the original...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
355 posts
1 hour ago, Wolverinex said:

I wonder if anyone could ever make an EXACT clone of the original...

I own the TMNT #1 Production Negatives that were used to make the 1st & 2nd printings so that's 90% of what it would take to make an exact replica (hypothetically of course).  All that would be needed are the four cover images (interior & exterior).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,892 posts
1 hour ago, rich_TMNT said:

I own the TMNT #1 Production Negatives that were used to make the 1st & 2nd printings so that's 90% of what it would take to make an exact replica (hypothetically of course).  All that would be needed are the four cover images (interior & exterior).

How did you get those!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
355 posts
2 hours ago, Wolverinex said:

How did you get those!!!!

Long story...too much to go into here.  You can read all about them here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,892 posts
13 hours ago, rich_TMNT said:

Long story...too much to go into here.  You can read all about them here.

that is an insane story

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
355 posts
9 minutes ago, Wolverinex said:

that is an insane story

Yeah, these negatives are really amazing.  They've traveled far and have a great backstory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,892 posts
44 minutes ago, rich_TMNT said:

Yeah, these negatives are really amazing.  They've traveled far and have a great backstory.

What do u plan to do with them in the future to prevent counterfeits? Donate to a museum or something?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
24 24