rich_TMNT Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 ...do all Gold Turtlemania books have three covers (regular, silver over the regular, and gold over silver)? Until I had mine in hand, I never realized this was the case. Wha?? Are you serious about that Gold having 3 covers? Now THAT would be news to me. I've never heard any of the other Gold owners talk about this. Can you post some pics of this? Is the Silver cover inside also signed as if it were a Silver Turtlemania? I have a Silver myself and I will have to check this weekend to see if it has 2 covers (Silver and Reg.) but I really don't think that it does. If it does I'm going to have to get my eyes checked since I'm not sure how I would have missed that. Now, this is just for argumentation sake for now but if all Golds don't have 3 covers and yours does then I wonder if yours does because it's #1 of 10 (which would make it ultra-extra-especially rare - i.e., 1 of 1). Oh my...thanks for the awesome info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylab Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Sure, I'll get some photos of the multiple covers on Sunday night when I return home. I'm not sure if the silver cover is signed or not, I'll also check that too. I'm glad I asked, when I opened the book for the first time I thought to myself 'hmm, I had no idea it was made like this... Must just be common knowledge, I've never seen it mentioned'. Guess it may be the oddity I first thought it was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Thanks keylab...I don't think this is common knowledge at all. In fact, I've collected TMNT comics for over 25 years and this is the first I've ever heard of multiple covers and Turtlemania Gold. I checked my Turtlemania Silver and it has only the single grayish cover. I know that some of the other Turtlemania Gold owners have had their copies graded / slabbed or framed so this could be a difficult thing to verify if those owners don't recall and the CGC labels don't specifically indicate this. In pictures I've seen of graded copies the CGC label notes one of two different things about the cover...either "Orange color cover" and "Orange outer cover." That latter designation may indicate multiple covers but I would think they'd specifically call this out (like they do on the double cover TMNT #3 slabs which state: "Double Cover"). This is going to be very interesting. Can't wait to hear from other Gold owners and see your pics. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon_Turtle Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Thanks keylab...I don't think this is common knowledge at all. In fact, I've collected TMNT comics for over 25 years and this is the first I've ever heard of multiple covers and Turtlemania Gold. I checked my Turtlemania Silver and it has only the single grayish cover. I know that some of the other Turtlemania Gold owners have had their copies graded / slabbed or framed so this could be a difficult thing to verify if those owners don't recall and the CGC labels don't specifically indicate this. In pictures I've seen of graded copies the CGC label notes one of two different things about the cover...either "Orange color cover" and "Orange outer cover." That latter designation may indicate multiple covers but I would think they'd specifically call this out (like they do on the double cover TMNT #3 slabs which state: "Double Cover"). This is going to be very interesting. Can't wait to hear from other Gold owners and see your pics. Thanks again! I slabbed mine without opening it, so unless Danny (the previous owner) opened it, I can't confirm. I don't know that I'd consider it an entirely new edition though Rich. I mean...it's still 1 of 10, it just also happens to be an error copy. I have the only known error copy of Gobbledygook #1 (1st edition) and I still consider it part of the regular run. Edit: Danny just texted me. No multiple covers on my gold. Edited August 11, 2012 by Archon_Turtle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I don't know that I'd consider it an entirely new edition though Rich. I mean...it's still 1 of 10, it just also happens to be an error copy. Stephan, agreed. I also wouldn't consider this an entirely new edition...my "one of one" comment was mostly in jest as a demonstration of rarity or likelihood when you only have 10 copies. This would be just as you said, an error copy with multiple covers like all other multiple cover comics. ...man, just when you think you know all there is to know...crazy! I'd be willing to bet the multiple covers on this were planned and it went to either the creator (Robert Wilson) or someone close to the creator. I can't think that this 1 of 10 being found along with all those other TMNT rarities that keylab bought is a coincidence. That stash came from someone close to the "action" in the very early days of the Turtles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylab Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 here's the photo of the Gold with multiple covers, it goes Gold -> Silver -> Regular. The silver cover is not signed/numbered also, I'm including this photo, it shows a few bags/boards that the comics came in... All comics in this group have this same description, "display only" and then the details of the comic. In addition, all comics look like they signed by Eastman (and half by Laird) at the same time, all dated '85 and the sigs/ink all look identical (like they were done one after another). This all has me wonder if these were actually part of the display of a dealer, or maybe even on display at the Turtlemania event (hence my question for photos of the event in a past post). Just a theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 (edited) WOW !! That...is...AWESOME !! Thanks for posting these pics...really appreciate that. I just can't put into words how extremely awesome this collection is. I'd love to hear some back story on the acquisition if you are willing to discuss (PM me if you're so inclined). I absolutely think these were all part of some dealer's or shop owner's collection and were on display in the office or store. That "Display Only" sign on all of them is basically saying, "Yes, these are awesome and no, they aren't for sale." My LCS owner growing up had many early and rare comics on display in his shop with "Not for sale" or something similar on them all. I think these all could be from the Turtlemania event back in the day but I'm not sure why they'd have the Turtlemania Gold bagged up like that at the Turtlemania event. I suppose the Gobbledygooks or TMNT #1 could have been there on display like that for promotional purposes. Nice, nice, nice...great find and awesome information. A truly stellar set of TMNT history you have there. Thanks for sharing! (thumbs u EDIT: I had forgotten about this Turtlemania oddity posted here a long time ago. Not sure who owns this copy now but it has some similarities to this 3 cover Gold. Makes me wonder what type of other weird Turtlemania Gold stuff might be out there. Edited August 14, 2012 by rwhorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woregul Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 That Gold #1 is very interesting. Maybe they were testing the printing of the other covers. I looked at Gold #6, and it only has the gold cover - no silver or white cover inside like #1. I also see that the display for Gobbledygook says "150 copies printed" each, but everywhere else says only 50 copies. Which is it? Did Metropolis just have it wrong? It is listed in Turtlemania also as 150 copies each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) That Gold #1 is very interesting. Maybe they were testing the printing of the other covers. It is very interesting...especially because it's not stapled to the cover. The Gold cover is almost like a printer's proof that someone kept. I also see that the display for Gobbledygook says "150 copies printed" each, but everywhere else says only 50 copies. Which is it? Did Metropolis just have it wrong? It is listed in Turtlemania also as 150 copies each. I don't think anyone really knows for sure which just adds to their mystique. However, I tend to believe there were 150 copies created of each. I say this for two reasons. First, this is the number that's documented in the publications (like Turtlemania and some magazine/newspaper articles) from the early days of the TMNT. I think this would be the most accurate record since E&L surely had more accurate recall of the their efforts to produce them after only 3 years had passed. As time passes, memory fades and second-guessing comes into play. Second, 50 copies of each doesn't seem like it would be a sufficient amount to properly promote or advertise their work and the upcoming TMNT #1. I would think they'd burn through 50 copies of these quickly. Plus, this was a hand-made comic book...they had to know that many people would simply discard them or toss them aside as rubbish. Knowing that, I think they would have printed more than they thought they'd need. Edited August 14, 2012 by rwhorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comiconxion Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I first talked to Kevin in 1996 about how many copies of Gobbledygook were printed. He told me back then (docuemented in a letter) and still maintains to this day that there were 50 copies of each printed. Allegedly, they ran them off in batches of 5 which explains why there is some variation across the printings. Let's face it, I don't think Kevin and Peter sold many of the copies of Gobbledygook that they printed and they weren't widely distributed. Most of the legitimate copies that have surfaced in recent years have come out of the collections of Kevin and Peter or friends and family members that they were given to. Kevin actually owned the original proofs that the books were printed from up until recently so I have to believe that he knew how many he printed of the book. [ I don't think anyone really knows for sure which just adds to their mystique. However, I tend to believe there were 150 copies created of each. I say this for two reasons. First, this is the number that's documented in the publications (like Turtlemania and some magazine/newspaper articles) from the early days of the TMNT. I think this would be the most accurate record since E&L surely had more accurate recall of the their efforts to produce them after only 3 years had passed. As time passes, memory fades and second-guessing comes into play. Second, 50 copies of each doesn't seem like it would be a sufficient amount to properly promote or advertise their work and the upcoming TMNT #1. I would think they'd burn through 50 copies of these quickly. Plus, this was a hand-made comic book...they had to know that many people would simply discard them or toss them aside as rubbish. Knowing that, I think they would have printed more than they thought they'd need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I first talked to Kevin in 1996 about how many copies of Gobbledygook were printed. He told me back then (docuemented in a letter) and still maintains to this day that there were 50 copies of each printed. Allegedly, they ran them off in batches of 5 which explains why there is some variation across the printings. Yep, I remember that letter...you shared it with me some time back. It stated "no more than 50 copies each" were printed. Still, that letter was written almost 15 years removed from the actual "event" of the Gobbledygooks. Think about all that happened to Kevin & Peter in those 15 years. Plus, I've never heard E or L address why Turtlemania states 150 copies of each exist. Wouldn't that be a more accurate record since it was just a few years after? Although, I guess since Mirage didn't publish that it could have been just speculation on Robert Wilson's part. However, Robert had to have a source for all the other print run information he put in the Turtlemania books - aren't all the other print run numbers accurate in that book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaylab Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 That Gold #1 is very interesting. Maybe they were testing the printing of the other covers. It is very interesting...especially because it's not stapled to the cover. The Gold cover is almost like a printer's proof that someone kept. I want to correct a minor point I think you made there. It may not display well in the photo, but all 3 covers are indeed stapled to the book. I'm back on the road for a few days, but if there is any interest, I can grab a pic & share one more interesting item from the lot of books. A few pieces of non comic ephemera were included in the lot, including 2 of the original fliers for the Turtlemania event. It's just basic photocopied flier, nothing fancy, not sure if these are still widely available, but thought it cool that these survived with the books... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 That Gold #1 is very interesting. Maybe they were testing the printing of the other covers. It is very interesting...especially because it's not stapled to the cover. The Gold cover is almost like a printer's proof that someone kept. I want to correct a minor point I think you made there. It may not display well in the photo, but all 3 covers are indeed stapled to the book. keylab, I got a bit mixed up as I didn't notice that woregul had been the one that responded to that one post of mine. So, my "unstapled" comment was actually in reference to the Gold cover shown in this post from a few years ago. I had thought that you were saying THAT Gold was also interesting but it was actually woregul saying that YOUR Gold is interesting. My bad...sorry for any confusion. Should pay better attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Reader Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 This is pretty cool. Kevin's copy (1/1000) currently for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMNT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 This is pretty cool. Kevin's copy (1/1000) currently for sale. Yep, originally sold on HA for an astounding $3800 this past May, so I guess his 5K+ is about right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yep, originally sold on HA for an astounding $3800 this past May, so I guess his 5K+ is about right... So, the Heritage buyer from May is now selling it? Why buy it in the first place? I can't see him getting nearly $6K for this. I love that first page artwork and the book itself is a great (and somewhat rare) book but even $3800 seems steep for this. Will be interesting to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMNT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yep, originally sold on HA for an astounding $3800 this past May, so I guess his 5K+ is about right... So, the Heritage buyer from May is now selling it? Why buy it in the first place? I can't see him getting nearly $6K for this. I love that first page artwork and the book itself is a great (and somewhat rare) book but even $3800 seems steep for this. Will be interesting to see what happens. Yep, this was listed for sale about a week or so after the auctions. I was completely FLOORED by the original price and so this one....um, yeaaaaa. It has been a bit disheartening, though not completely unexpected as prices have continued to rise, to see more dealers getting in on the action. The Gobblegook #1 cover was bought by a dealer who immediately asked for double the bid price and has been slowly lowering the price ever since. This book and quite a few other art pieces as well have been bought by dealers then marked at about double...oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Yep, this was listed for sale about a week or so after the auctions. I was completely FLOORED by the original price and so this one....um, yeaaaaa. It has been a bit disheartening, though not completely unexpected as prices have continued to rise, to see more dealers getting in on the action. The Gobblegook #1 cover was bought by a dealer who immediately asked for double the bid price and has been slowly lowering the price ever since. This book and quite a few other art pieces as well have been bought by dealers then marked at about double...oh well It's puzzling to me this mentality that the dealers have, thinking they can immediately turn double profit after they're the ones that inflated the price to where it was in the first place. They're clearly the only ones willing to pay that price as it was open to all interested buyers. It must be they think people will see how much it sold for prior and that it's now somehow worth more. Oh well indeed. Thanks for your insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon_Turtle Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Yeah it sucks. Just about every good piece in that HA auction went to dealers. Also I just wanted to say that every conversation I have ever had with Kevin about the GG first prints (which is a considerable amount) he has always stated 50 copies. So until we find those 51st copies, I'm inclined to believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_TMNT Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 Also I just wanted to say that every conversation I have ever had with Kevin about the GG first prints (which is a considerable amount) he has always stated 50 copies. So until we find those 51st copies, I'm inclined to believe him. I'm inclined to believe him too, Stephan. No reason not to believe him and, just as you said, we'll know (or maybe our kids/grandkids will know) if that 51st copy ever surfaces. I've just always thought it odd how it took Peter & Kevin years to publicly correct the print quantity information that was published in Turtlemania. I had even thought they had stated separately (article or magazine) that there WERE 150 copies of each but, for the life of me, I can't find that article anywhere. I think it's just that I've collected so long and have had that 150 number in my brain since '87 that it's very hard to shake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
