Where are the Nine MPWF #1 copies Today? 5 5

[MrBedrock]

But in this case there is the scare factor that a large batch were printed yet never distributed. They could be in a warehouse somewhere.

Or just as likely at the bottom of landfill.

 

....and a large batch were found.........in the home of the deceased publisher.

It would be neat to know how many were originally printed. There was obviously a print run of an amount larger than the ten or so existent. And they certainly aren't printed ashcan style. Maybe as few as 50 or 100 were done and some were sent out as samples to the area theaters. But it is possible that a print run of many hundreds or thousands were done and when the experiment was deemed unsuccessful they were all pulped or thrown out (or stored away for future generations). Either way, one would expect additional copies to appear from somewhere. The fact that they have not is very interesting.

 

Whatever "cover", this book has tremendous historic value. It is probable that this was a "mock-up". According to an interview with John Snyder in the 1980s, this book was not registered or filed with the Library of Congress. (John was the guy that got me into collecting Centaur/early Chesler/Ultem/Comic Magazine Co.) first printed edition with subby (note the size comparison with other Funnies Inc books put out for Centaur such as Uncle Joes Funnies and Little Giant Detective Funnies #4 and Little Giant Comics #4 It ain't a coincidence. These are the same guys that did the covers for FPFW and the cover sheet of 2-4 Just got the pieces to put it together). Funnies Inc crew drew for Centaur and then created the early timely books and then went in house for Timely. History guys. Evolution.....development. And all this stuff from the Jacquet estate...who ran Funnies, Inc. Do you know what Jacquet's first gig was in comics? Editor of New Fun #1. Don't know about you, but I find this stuff fascinating.

 

I understand the 'cover' angle as to 'valuation', but the 'value' of this book is its historical context and the few number that exist. It is a book that is sui generis.

 

How about addressing the importance of the book (or other books) as opposed to distilling it always down to "what it is worth"?

 

jon

I was asking about print run amount, not dollar amount.

Not sure what "cover" means.

We all respect the historical importance of the book.

 

Please read quoted material before responding. (thumbs u

[jbcomicbox]

But in this case there is the scare factor that a large batch were printed yet never distributed. They could be in a warehouse somewhere.

Or just as likely at the bottom of landfill.

 

....and a large batch were found.........in the home of the deceased publisher.

It would be neat to know how many were originally printed. There was obviously a print run of an amount larger than the ten or so existent. And they certainly aren't printed ashcan style. Maybe as few as 50 or 100 were done and some were sent out as samples to the area theaters. But it is possible that a print run of many hundreds or thousands were done and when the experiment was deemed unsuccessful they were all pulped or thrown out (or stored away for future generations). Either way, one would expect additional copies to appear from somewhere. The fact that they have not is very interesting.

 

Whatever "cover", this book has tremendous historic value. It is probable that this was a "mock-up". According to an interview with John Snyder in the 1980s, this book was not registered or filed with the Library of Congress. (John was the guy that got me into collecting Centaur/early Chesler/Ultem/Comic Magazine Co.) first printed edition with subby (note the size comparison with other Funnies Inc books put out for Centaur such as Uncle Joes Funnies and Little Giant Detective Funnies #4 and Little Giant Comics #4 It ain't a coincidence. These are the same guys that did the covers for FPFW and the cover sheet of 2-4 Just got the pieces to put it together). Funnies Inc crew drew for Centaur and then created the early timely books and then went in house for Timely. History guys. Evolution.....development. And all this stuff from the Jacquet estate...who ran Funnies, Inc. Do you know what Jacquet's first gig was in comics? Editor of New Fun #1. Don't know about you, but I find this stuff fascinating.

 

I understand the 'cover' angle as to 'valuation', but the 'value' of this book is its historical context and the few number that exist. It is a book that is sui generis.

 

How about addressing the importance of the book (or other books) as opposed to distilling it always down to "what it is worth"?

 

jon

 

 

Richard - this is the post I was responding to....I was not responding to your musings. Sorry about that.....jon

 

"Although MPFW has a huge historic significance, it is a book that would be real low on my "want" list. The cover just doesn't do anything for me.

 

Let me ask the question, if MPFW had a cover more in line with Marvel Comics 1 but rather than the Human Torch, it had SubMariner on it, what would be the change in value and desirabilty by a wider audiance? My guess is it would make a HUGE difference."

 

[MrBedrock]

Richard - this is the post I was responding to....I was not responding to your musings. Sorry about that.....jon

 

"Although MPFW has a huge historic significance, it is a book that would be real low on my "want" list. The cover just doesn't do anything for me.

 

Let me ask the question, if MPFW had a cover more in line with Marvel Comics 1 but rather than the Human Torch, it had SubMariner on it, what would be the change in value and desirabilty by a wider audiance? My guess is it would make a HUGE difference."

If it had Subby on the cover it would be far more coveted by collectors, no doubt.

In fact, if it had Subby on the cover I never would have sold the copy you ended up with.

[Forbush-Man]

Richard - this is the post I was responding to....I was not responding to your musings. Sorry about that.....jon

 

"Although MPFW has a huge historic significance, it is a book that would be real low on my "want" list. The cover just doesn't do anything for me.

 

Let me ask the question, if MPFW had a cover more in line with Marvel Comics 1 but rather than the Human Torch, it had SubMariner on it, what would be the change in value and desirabilty by a wider audiance? My guess is it would make a HUGE difference."

If it had Subby on the cover it would be far more coveted by collectors, no doubt.

In fact, if it had Subby on the cover I never would have sold the copy you ended up with.

 

Wow! We should change your name from Mr. Bedrock to Dr. Manhattan, after that time machine/different dimensional reply about Subby on the cover.

 

I'll tell you this; if the cover to MPFW #1 had been the rejected Everett cover for Marvel Comics #1, I would be all for it. (thumbs u The cover doesn't do that much for me, but neither does the cover to the first Appearance of the Arrow, or The Clock........but I'd still like to own them for their significance.

 

MPFW #1 is the first time a Timely character (one of the big 3 at Timely) appears in a comic, that's enough for me. Timely/Atals/Marvel all start from there (except if you include pulps).

[VintageComics]

I personally think it's a shame that such a key book doesn't receive more love because of it's cover.

 

I wonder how this book would have affected the market if it had been around all these years like the other big keys.

 

Because I'm relatively new to GA is there somewhere I can read up on this find of MPFW?

 

R.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

Wow! We should change your name from Mr. Bedrock to Dr. Manhattan, after that time machine/different dimensional reply about Subby on the cover.

 

I'll tell you this; if the cover to MPFW #1 had been the rejected Everett cover for Marvel Comics #1, I would be all for it. (thumbs u The cover doesn't do that much for me, but neither does the cover to the first Appearance of the Arrow, or The Clock........but I'd still like to own them for their significance.

 

MPFW #1 is the first time a Timely character (one of the big 3 at Timely) appears in a comic, that's enough for me. Timely/Atals/Marvel all start from there (except if you include pulps).

The thing for me is that I appreciate the history of MPFW. In the same way I appreciate the history of Detective Comics 1 or Wow What a Magazine or any of the other early precursors. Or Mad Magazine 24 for its importance, or Archie Comics 1. The list of important comics is very long. Heck, I appreciate Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1 - a very important comic.

 

But I collect cool golden age covers. If MPFW had a cool cover I would be all over it. But I hate the cover. The interiors are, for the most, pretty lame too. But the Everett Subby story is beautifully rendered, historically important, and included in Marvel #1 (which I have a copy of). So I have no interest in spending several thousand dollars on one at this time. Heck, I had probably the second best copy. It wasn't doing anything for me so I sold it.

[Bronty]

But in this case there is

 

Whatever "cover", this book has tremendous historic value. It is probable that this was a "mock-up". According to an interview with John Snyder in the 1980s, this book was not registered or filed with the Library of Congress. [/i].

 

How about addressing the importance of the book (or other books) as opposed to distilling it always down to "what it is worth"?

 

jon

 

very, very interesting.... well between the single source find and it not being registered with the Library I have to agree its likely "just" a mock up. To me - no disrespect to anyone, just my opinion - that does make it less historically important since its a basically a copy of a comic book that didn't happen. Now its still a mock up of the first subby appearance which is tremendously cool... but does take some shine off the apple in my view - again no disrespect to the owners, god knows I'd love to have one. But if it wasn't on newstands I don't see it as being a "real" first appearance.

[Forbush-Man]

But in this case there is

 

Whatever "cover", this book has tremendous historic value. It is probable that this was a "mock-up". According to an interview with John Snyder in the 1980s, this book was not registered or filed with the Library of Congress. [/i].

 

How about addressing the importance of the book (or other books) as opposed to distilling it always down to "what it is worth"?

 

jon

 

very, very interesting.... well between the single source find and it not being registered with the Library I have to agree its likely "just" a mock up. To me - no disrespect to anyone, just my opinion - that does make it less historically important since its a basically a copy of a comic book that didn't happen. Now its still a mock up of the first subby appearance which is tremendously cool... but does take some shine off the apple in my view - again no disrespect to the owners, god knows I'd love to have one. But if it wasn't on newstands I don't see it as being a "real" first appearance.

 

Bronty, I'm not answering this as an owner of a MPFW #1, but as someone who in 1980 made a determination that between my two biggest grails, Marvel Comics #1 and MPFW #1, I would rather have the MPFW #1. That was a good 20 years before I ever became an owner. It's scarcity & historical significance did it for me.

 

The first modern comic, Funnies on Parade was given away for free (much like the MPFW #1). Famous Funnies #1 was the second comic and sold for a dime. By what you've said, I take it if you had your choice between these two comics you'd pick the second modern comic ever over the first modern comic because it was actually sold for a dime.

[Forbush-Man]

The thing for me is that I appreciate the history of MPFW. In the same way I appreciate the history of Detective Comics 1 or Wow What a Magazine or any of the other early precursors. Or Mad Magazine 24 for its importance, or Archie Comics 1. The list of important comics is very long. Heck, I appreciate Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1 - a very important comic.

 

But I collect cool golden age covers. If MPFW had a cool cover I would be all over it. But I hate the cover. The interiors are, for the most, pretty lame too. But the Everett Subby story is beautifully rendered, historically important, and included in Marvel #1 (which I have a copy of). So I have no interest in spending several thousand dollars on one at this time. Heck, I had probably the second best copy. It wasn't doing anything for me so I sold it.

 

I understand & agree on the cover and some of the interior being pretty lame, but that is the case with a lot of the comics from that period. I am also envious of your Marvel Comics #1, I still need that grail.......maybe one day I will have one and then I will have what I call "The Ultimate Timely Hat-Trick": The first appearances of the three biggest Timely characters ever; a Cap #1, MPFW #1 & Marvel Comics #1. I'm 2/3rds of the way there.

[jbcomicbox]

Wow! We should change your name from Mr. Bedrock to Dr. Manhattan, after that time machine/different dimensional reply about Subby on the cover.

 

I'll tell you this; if the cover to MPFW #1 had been the rejected Everett cover for Marvel Comics #1, I would be all for it. (thumbs u The cover doesn't do that much for me, but neither does the cover to the first Appearance of the Arrow, or The Clock........but I'd still like to own them for their significance.

 

MPFW #1 is the first time a Timely character (one of the big 3 at Timely) appears in a comic, that's enough for me. Timely/Atals/Marvel all start from there (except if you include pulps).

The thing for me is that I appreciate the history of MPFW. In the same way I appreciate the history of Detective Comics 1 or Wow What a Magazine or any of the other early precursors. Or Mad Magazine 24 for its importance, or Archie Comics 1. The list of important comics is very long. Heck, I appreciate Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1 - a very important comic.

 

But I collect cool golden age covers. If MPFW had a cool cover I would be all over it. But I hate the cover. The interiors are, for the most, pretty lame too. But the Everett Subby story is beautifully rendered, historically important, and included in Marvel #1 (which I have a copy of). So I have no interest in spending several thousand dollars on one at this time. Heck, I had probably the second best copy. It wasn't doing anything for me so I sold it.

 

Richard- I do not disagree. It is all so personal. That is what makes the hobby what it is ---diversity of interests. Getting what appeals to you, not because it "appeals to others'

 

Different strokes for different folks.

 

And thanks for the info tracing back your book which is temporarily mine....jb

[adamstrange]

By what you've said, I take it if you had your choice between these two comics you'd pick the second modern comic ever over the first modern comic because it was actually sold for a dime.

 

I would take the book that sold for a dime as I think there's something different about a comic that was sold for it's own sake vs. something packaged as a bonus or given away. It's that "specialness" that drives my collecting interest. MPFW is still very important because I'm convinced that Subby was created for it and it was the first time it was put into a comic book, regardless of whether that comic was actually distributed.

[VintageComics]

By what you've said, I take it if you had your choice between these two comics you'd pick the second modern comic ever over the first modern comic because it was actually sold for a dime.

 

I would take the book that sold for a dime as I think there's something different about a comic that was sold for it's own sake vs. something packaged as a bonus or given away. It's that "specialness" that drives my collecting interest. MPFW is still very important because I'm convinced that Subby was created for it and it was the first time it was put into a comic book, regardless of whether that comic was actually distributed.

 

I'm going to have to default using Bedrock logic, which Richard obviously forgot about and take them both.

 

 

[Bronty]

By what you've said, I take it if you had your choice between these two comics you'd pick the second modern comic ever over the first modern comic because it was actually sold for a dime.

 

I would take the book that sold for a dime as I think there's something different about a comic that was sold for it's own sake vs. something packaged as a bonus or given away. It's that "specialness" that drives my collecting interest. MPFW is still very important because I'm convinced that Subby was created for it and it was the first time it was put into a comic book, regardless of whether that comic was actually distributed.

 

well put on all counts.

 

Is green giant 1 a similar story?

[Bronty]

By what you've said, I take it if you had your choice between these two comics you'd pick the second modern comic ever over the first modern comic because it was actually sold for a dime.

 

I would take the book that sold for a dime as I think there's something different about a comic that was sold for it's own sake vs. something packaged as a bonus or given away. It's that "specialness" that drives my collecting interest. MPFW is still very important because I'm convinced that Subby was created for it and it was the first time it was put into a comic book, regardless of whether that comic was actually distributed.

 

I'm going to have to default using Bedrock logic, which Richard obviously forgot about and take them both.

 

 

no doubt

[esquirecomics]

I agree with Jon, which is actually not to say I disagree with the others because the fact is this is definitely more of a personal choice as to whether someone would want this book and, if so, what they would pay for it. To me, the history and scarcity drives me far more than the cover or the contents. Obviously that is why I desire ashcans, which often have neither much of a cover nor contents!

 

Unfortunately, as with the history of ashcans, I doubt we will ever know the true story behind this book. Sadly, everyone involved at any significant level has passed on. I really wish I had been more interested in the history of these books 25 years ago when I could have contacted the key players but at 17 I had other things on mind than comic books that were 50 years old! The fact that no other copies have turned up would seem to indicate a lack of distribution. One would think that if even some copies were distributed someone would have saved at least one. Of course, this could be true and it simply hasn't surfaced.

 

But even then it is hard to tell to what degree copies of the Catechetical Guild books were distributed and yet we keep finding out about a previously unknown copy. I don't believe the price/value of a newly discovered copy of Blood is the Harvest will significantly hurt the price of that book, nor would I think anything different would occur with MPFW. In fact, based on what some people above have written, if a copy were discovered outside of Jacquet's estate it might indicate distribution did occur and some other collectors would be more interested.

 

For me, again, the price was more than I would have liked to have paid but in line with what I expected. It wasn't purchased for resale. It was purchased to be a part of my personal collection and likely - hopefully - not surface for many more years to come. Thus, it will have an "ownership" and "enjoyment" value attached to it so that if even in 15 years from now I only recover what I paid, it still would have been worth it! (thumbs u

 

 

[esquirecomics]

In fact, in Overstreet Guide #8, it was ranked as the third most-valuable comic, behind only Marvel #1 and Action #1. The discovery of this book caused such a sensation is because collectors were forced to realize that the Sub-Mariner story here pre-dates the near-identical one in Marvel Comics #1, making this the character's first printed appearance.

 

For those of you who were around in the hobby at a level that actually allowed you to understand what was going on in 1979 (rather than just some of us who were buying and oblivious to everything else), what was it that led the MPWF #1 to rank so high in desire AND value, only to then fall significantly off pace with MM#1 and Action #1?

[jbcomicbox]

By what you've said, I take it if you had your choice between these two comics you'd pick the second modern comic ever over the first modern comic because it was actually sold for a dime.

 

I would take the book that sold for a dime as I think there's something different about a comic that was sold for it's own sake vs. something packaged as a bonus or given away. It's that "specialness" that drives my collecting interest. MPFW is still very important because I'm convinced that Subby was created for it and it was the first time it was put into a comic book, regardless of whether that comic was actually distributed.

 

well put on all counts.

 

Is green giant 1 a similar story?

 

 

This is a great book also. jon

 

 

[Bronty]

beautiful copy. Is it a similar story, though, no proven distribution? I can't really recall the story on this one without digging out old overstreets.

[Crowzilla]

For those of you who were around in the hobby at a level that actually allowed you to understand what was going on in 1979 (rather than just some of us who were buying and oblivious to everything else), what was it that led the MPWF #1 to rank so high in desire AND value, only to then fall significantly off pace with MM#1 and Action #1?

 

Do you always quote yourself when you ask questions?

 

I think the argument could be made that at the time of discovery, MPFW was THE most expensive comic (the incomplete copy sold for $2000 in 1974, far more than Action #1 or Marvel #1 guided for in good).

 

I believe it immediately ranked so high because 1) Bob bought the very first copy sold 2) It was the first Sub-Mariner (and some suspected, by extension, kind of the first Timely), 3) There were no comparables to shop, if you wanted a MPFW you had the beg the guy who had all the known copies (and he apparently misled people as to how many copies there were), you couldn't find one from another dealer and try to get a better deal.

 

What made it fall? Out of sight, out of mind for one reason. When it's so rare that it hardly ever changes hands it's hard to keep increasing in value. Plus the fact that we might never know the full story behind the book and if it was really distributed or not (as we've seen with NY World's Fair, being printed first doesn't guarantee that it's more desirable than the next best alternative). And while there's no question it is the first Sub-mariner, it's still not Marvel #1.

 

Certainly doesn't mean that it's not a darn good book - it is. Just that after years of reflection the market has decided it ultimately isn't as valuable as Action #1 or Marvel #1.

 

[porcupine48]

Could anyone share some more info on the GreenGiant #1,pretty please?