PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[lighthouse]

22 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

It should be noted that we didn't have a Hall of Shame until May of 2008. So HOS was not an issue during the above mentioned probation, but it was probably the first time it was suggested that someone just be left on the list. Which is what the HOS does.

 

The Hall of Shame existed long before that. If you click the link above to Divad’s post from July 6, 2007 you will see that Herald2Galactus was already the inaugural member at that point.

[skypinkblu]

7 minutes ago, lighthouse said:

The Hall of Shame existed long before that. If you click the link above to Divad’s post from July 6, 2007 you will see that Herald2Galactus was already the inaugural member at that point.

You were on the probation list in 2007 and 2008, correct? I apologize if Alley Bat was not the first.

However, that doesn't answer my question about the two opposing statements.

[lighthouse]

25 minutes ago, skypinkblu said:

So can you please explain these two statements?  Because one seems to negate the other? 

After TheWatcher's nomination, there are no additional complaints regarding board transactions with me. No other outstanding transactions had been pending. I had stopped making any transactions with board members well before that.

I sold off the bulk of my remaining collection/inventory to a coupleboard members later that year,

 

The two board members who purchased the bulk of my remaining collection in 2008 did so in person in San Antonio where the books were stored in my ex-wife’s garage (I was already living in San Diego by then). The vast majority of it was purchased by @MYNAMEISLEGION, who I went to college with three decades ago. It wasn’t a “board transaction”. It was a transaction with a friend from college who also happened to be a member of these boards. 

I apologize for the confusion. I definitely see how that wasn’t clear. But I contacted Sean directly to sell him my old inventory in person. It wasn’t me soliciting business through the boards. 

The small remainder was purchased by @bubbagump who is also a very old friend who picked up a few things in person as well. 

I count both Sean and Rick among my close friends. And while it was accurate to say I sold the inventory to board members, I should have made that more clear. It was a long post with lots of links to pull together. I should have expounded on that paragraph more.

Thanks for giving me a chance to clarify that.

[MyNameIsLegion]

My friendship with @lighthouse predates  the CGC boards, as does @bubbagump,I was also friends with his Ex as we all went to college together - I did indeed buy out his inventory back then. That was 12 years ago. 

however- in the last couple of years, after a full decade of little interaction and zero transactions ( he had effectively quit comics pretty much entirely, focusing on career and personal stuff) he made it known to me that he was looking  to open another store. I had a significant amount of inventory that was better suited for a store and I sold it to him - he paid me in cash my asking price in part because it was his way of acknowledging the times I had helped him out in the past. That made an impression upon me. A year later he offered a rare, expensive, one of a kind item to me at a fair price and mailed it to me promptly and securely.

I know him better than most everyone on this message board with the exception of Rick. I know lighthouse’s quirks and foibles first hand, and I never had any illusions about them. He’s an exceptionally bright guy, top 10 I have known, but I think he would be the first to agree that his emotional intelligence took an extra 20 years to catch up. But it has caught up, and he’s trying to make up for lost time, and past mistakes as well. There’s no margin for error here and no time to be wasted except with the past. To deny him that chance now says more about the character of the boards than it does him. He should be removed from the probation list.

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by MYNAMEISLEGION

[MyNameIsLegion]

the point I was trying to make in the post above (written from my phone at 3am, so apologies if not completely coherent) is that it's one thing to judge a person's character and intent solely from their words and the words said about them on a message board versus "real life." You will, at best get a two-dimensional impression of a person, an event, a disagreement likely very skewed in one direction or another. I would also caution the boards to not confuse caricature with character. Scouring 128 pages of Probation Discussion and hammering the new boards utterly crappy search capabilities is a futile exercise. It's both good and bad that a person cannot escape their past (whether they are at fault or not) in the digital age - the prevalence of cancel culture is well documented.  12 years in the digital realm is eons, I think @lighthouse has earned the benefit of the doubt at the very least.  There are much more famous boardies that have flamed out, tried to sneak back in under new identities, including selling, and generally have been true trolls. Some of them persist to this day always on the verge of a strike and are why the ignore feature exists.

A once in a century global pandemic is as good a time as any to hit the reset button.  If lighthouse were to slip up again, the fallout would be epic -  swift and merciless and so damaging to his reputation it would have a lasting impact on him, because this is his business, not a hobby or secondary retirement income.  Right now he's more focused on securing loans via the stimulus package to use for his employees payroll.  Running him through the ringer over a $30 transaction he made restitution on12 years ago is straining gnats and swallowing camels.

[AlexH]

On 3/28/2020 at 2:14 PM, skypinkblu said:

You can list while you are on the probation list. There is nothing to physically stop you from listing or buying, it's up to the individual whether or not they will deal with you, apparently at least one person already has.

However, you might want to put something at the top of your listing stating that you are on it, and why, and why you should be trusted now. That way someone won't buy something and be surprised later. 

This way if AlexH. cannot be reached, you can still list.

Nothing to stop you from using eBay as far as I know, so this wouldn't be your only venue?

I honestly have no recollection of this. I can barely remember last week. I have no issues if he comes off the probation list. 

[seanfingh]

On 4/5/2020 at 8:30 AM, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

 Running him through the ringer over a $30 transaction he made restitution on12 years ago is straining gnats and swallowing camels.

That's not a fair assessment of the Lighthouse situation.  It's cool to have your friends' back, but it's just not the way it was.

That being said, it looks like, according to the terms of PL, that Lighthouse should be removed.

Lighthouse, I hope you take of everyone here very well, and if you do that, I hope your sales are robust.

--S.

 

 

[crassus]

I am conscious that there is a lot of history involved, long before I ever got here, and that I have no familiarity with the context that originally surrounded this nomination. If his nominators had not come forward I would not be in favour of any relaxation of that rule. That said, given that his original nominators have expressed satisfaction, it should be the case that he is removed, not only for his own sake, but also that the PL be seen to operate fairly and equitably for all according to its rules.

Given that I do not have that first hand knowledge of the original context, I appreciate that there may be some members who have deeper reservations than can be satisfied with a technical PL process. But in fairness to any Board member who finds themselves on the PL, it should not be the case that "extras" get added on outside the circumstances of the original grievance or outside the explicit demands of the original nominators. Respectfully, that is what the HoS is for, and if the Board member is not going to be nominated for the HoS than he does deserve to be off the PL without further delay. 

[crassus]

I have gone ahead and removed lighthouse from the PL

If anything in the circumstances, past or present, or in the application of the PL rules as understood here, are in need of correction please post here for discussion

I assume as in all cases that Board members will exercise both their vigilance and fair mindedness 

[Red84]

9 hours ago, crassus said:

I have gone ahead and removed lighthouse from the PL

If anything in the circumstances, past or present, or in the application of the PL rules as understood here, are in need of correction please post here for discussion

I assume as in all cases that Board members will exercise both their vigilance and fair mindedness 

Hopefully now he will be a beacon to guide ships in the night.

[shadroch]

I enjoy reading houses stuff, but I think removing him from the probation list is wrong. Frankly, I'm surprised he isn't in the Hall of Shame.

[seanfingh]

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

I enjoy reading houses stuff, but I think removing him from the probation list is wrong. Frankly, I'm surprised he isn't in the Hall of Shame.

That's the real issue.  The PL has its rules, there is no one else to hold him to the PL so he is off.  The HoS horse has left the barn and only those of us who were here are left to remember.  It's basically a technicality.

[shadroch]

In the end, the scorpion stings the frog every time.

[thehumantorch]

1 hour ago, shadroch said:

I enjoy reading houses stuff, but I think removing him from the probation list is wrong. Frankly, I'm surprised he isn't in the Hall of Shame.

I can understand how you and others may feel but he isn't in the H of S and it appears he's satisfied the conditions for removal from the Probation List. 

 

 

[DavidTheDavid]

1 hour ago, thehumantorch said:

I can understand how you and others may feel but he isn't in the H of S and it appears he's satisfied the conditions for removal from the Probation List. 

 

 

Agree. From everything above, it seems like he's done all that he can to address this in good faith. If he screws over a boardie in the future, I can see a HoS nomination merited.

[seanfingh]

19 hours ago, shadroch said:

In the end, the scorpion stings the frog every time.

Shad, honestly, I feel the same way. But this isn't Minority Report.

[shadroch]

20 hours ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Agree. From everything above, it seems like he's done all that he can to address this in good faith. If he screws over a boardie in the future, I can see a HoS nomination merited.

I guess we have different ideas of what "good faith" means. 

[shadroch]

On 4/5/2020 at 5:30 AM, MYNAMEISLEGION said:

  If lighthouse were to slip up again, the fallout would be epic -  swift and merciless and so damaging to his reputation it would have a lasting impact on him, because this is his business, not a hobby or secondary retirement income.  Right now he's more focused on securing loans via the stimulus package to use for his employees payroll.  Running him through the ringer over a $30 transaction he made restitution on12 years ago is straining gnats and swallowing camels.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't he in the comic business fulltime when he took  thousands of dollars from board members and didn't deliver? Wasn't he in the business fulltime when he solicited board members to give him fraudulent feedback on a new ebay account he was opening, supposedly to dump tpbs he somehow obtained , and wasn't he in it fulltime when he took cash in the sum of five figures from a board member?  That he made restitution years later is cool, as is the fact I got my refund after about 18 months if I recall, but implying this was about a $30 transaction is nonsense. Add about three zeroes to that sum.  He tried to make a comeback a few years later, but enough of his victims were still around. Allowing him to sell here makes a mockery of the very rules we set up to prevent situations like this. 

[DavidTheDavid]

12 minutes ago, shadroch said:

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but wasn't he in the comic business fulltime when he took  thousands of dollars from board members and didn't deliver? Wasn't he in the business fulltime when he solicited board members to give him fraudulent feedback on a new ebay account he was opening, supposedly to dump tpbs he somehow obtained , and wasn't he in it fulltime when he took cash in the sum of five figures from a board member?  That he made restitution years later is cool, as is the fact I got my refund after about 18 months if I recall, but implying this was about a $30 transaction is nonsense. Add about three zeroes to that sum.  He tried to make a comeback a few years later, but enough of his victims were still around. Allowing him to sell here makes a mockery of the very rules we set up to prevent situations like this. 

Probations have a probationary period. If you want something permanent, then you should lobby for HoS. There's no statue of limitations in our informal system, but any HoS debate should have happened a long time ago.

[shadroch]

29 minutes ago, DavidTheDavid said:

Probations have a probationary period. If you want something permanent, then you should lobby for HoS. There's no statue of limitations in our informal system, but any HoS debate should have happened a long time ago.

He made a big deal about leaving and not selling any more, so it seemed like a moot point at the time. I think few people thought he'd have the balls to slink back and start posting again, and foolishly took him at his word that his selling days were over.