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PROBATION DISCUSSIONS
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36,201 posts in this topic

57 minutes ago, KCOComics said:

I feel like this situation got way over blown.  It seemed like he was new, didn't understand the rules, a disagreement happened and no one really got hurt (no $$ exchanged, just words).  

Now, why did it get over blown?  Because he kept escalating instead of resolving the issue.  Like I tell my kids, when you make a mistake, own it and make it right. 

I agree with your post in the thread that he should have sold the book as advertised. That was the right thing to do. 

Him choosing not to do that and keep arguing about minor details (timing and the intention of the word "think") created a mess. 

I don't think it's PL worthy personally.  He had a memorable sales thread that will act as its own "buyer beware." 

That buyer beware thread will soon be on page 56, list to any on the boards, especially new ones. Being on the probation list will keep his name where it can easily be a reminder to all. 
 

I do agree with an adjustment period, but he kept defending his position with walls of text stating how he has rights too. 
 

I really have no dog in this fight , and would never buy or sell to him, but as many have stated the rules are the rules. Even agamoto knew enough to include them in his sales thread. 

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4 hours ago, KCOComics said:

I feel like this situation got way over blown.  It seemed like he was new, didn't understand the rules, a disagreement happened and no one really got hurt (no $$ exchanged, just words).  

Now, why did it get over blown?  Because he kept escalating instead of resolving the issue.  Like I tell my kids, when you make a mistake, own it and make it right. 

I agree with your post in the thread that he should have sold the book as advertised. That was the right thing to do. 

Him choosing not to do that and keep arguing about minor details (timing and the intention of the word "think") created a mess. 

I don't think it's PL worthy personally.  He had a memorable sales thread that will act as its own "buyer beware." 

When I saw this sale thread there, out of curiosity to see what he have for sale ... then I saw what happened with one boardie and this book. Whoa ... what a mess. I have to agree with your point here, that sales thread is memorable deserved as a cautionary for new sellers.

One thing I have to scratch my head and bit of laughing... this seller certainly do take his time to try explain while defending his “superior” thoughts on the word terms of “think” or whatever. Rather than taking out the book in the first time. Way less time and less explaining...plain as simple! He does have a strange sense in brain processing.

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2 hours ago, Fan Boy said:

When I saw this sale thread there, out of curiosity to see what he have for sale ... then I saw what happened with one boardie and this book. Whoa ... what a mess. I have to agree with your point here, that sales thread is memorable deserved as a cautionary for new sellers.

One thing I have to scratch my head and bit of laughing... this seller certainly do take his time to try explain while defending his “superior” thoughts on the word terms of “think” or whatever. Rather than taking out the book in the first time. Way less time and less explaining...plain as simple! He does have a strange sense in brain processing.

He certaintly wasn't at a loss for words lol. 

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Columbo Detective GIF - Columbo Detective Confused GIFs

Oh, just one more thing...

Lol, probation huh? You guys are a hoot! Let me restate this as clearly and as succinctly as I can.

1. Seller puts some 30 or so books up for sale worth $15K or so. Plenty of rich detail provided. Links to pics, current GoCollect and GPA FMV's, free CGC grader notes, links to the census reports, etc. Arguably, above average content. 

2. Shopper comes along and says he's "Interested, maybe"  in some unspecified books and whether the books are pressed or not 

3. Seller says they are all pressed, some better than others and asks which ones he's interested in.

4. Shopper replies indicating he's "thinking about" a bundle deal of Avengers 8 and Hulk 141

5. Seller pulls those books off the shelf. Knows for sure one is pressed, and determines one of them actually isn't.

6. Seller responds to Shopper telling him one's pressed, the other isn't and the Hulk book that isn't pressed is going to be removed from sale. 

7. Shopper disregards this and now suddenly has gone from thinking about a sweet Avengers 8 and Hulk 141 bundle to wanting that 9.2 unpressed Hulk book, the one he's always wanted, but was just told was being pulled from sale in the prior message. He tells the Seller he wants that book. Not the Avengers 8, not the bundle. Just the Hulk. 

8. A minute after that, the Shopper puts a "take" in the thread too. He would explain later that he did this because the Seller hadn't updated the thread yet to indicate it was being pulled and he thought it was form of sales pressure tactic. 

9. The Seller returns to the forum 15 minutes later and responds to the Shopper's PM clarifying the book is indeed being pulled. 

10. The Seller updates the ad to indicate it's pulled and the Shopper posts a "well that's that" message with a frown. 

11. The Seller see this and offers the Shopper a great deal. First crack at the book with an additional 10% off with the value pegged at present FMV @ grade, even if it goes up in value.

12. The Shopper enters a general discussion thread to publicly grumble about the take he has just been denied.

13. That's apparently all it takes for the brotherhood members to engage in the sales thread, letting the seller know how things work 'round here, and how he oughta just respect the take or lose reputation/privileges.

14. The Seller notices one of the sales thread comments references another thread, reads the content and time stamps there and recognizes immediately that the Shopper not only failed to accurately describe the manner in which events took place, he also provides embellished reasoning in an apparent effort to make himself look like a victim. 

15. The Seller tries in vain in both threads to represent the facts as they actually were. To show that the Shopper wasn't a victim and was aware of the book being removed from sale before trying to take it. The entire situation begins to resemble a shakedown by proxy, en masse. No one gives a . No one wants to read his walls of text. Several point to the Seller's rules that say "no matter what" as if that's some sort of waiver that dismisses a shopper being purposefully manipulative.

16. The Seller refuses to back down or cave in, which only earns him the permanent ire of more and more board-members by refusing to "do the right thing." or posting 1000 word diatribe position papers providing context that go completely unread anyway. Facts don't matter and perception is everything. This... is 2020.

17. Frustrated with the community in general, The Seller closes the thread, never to sell here again, but quite thankful to those who did purchase the $15,000 or so in books. Thanks, everyone, you know where to find me.   

Still with me? Probably not. I apologize to those of you who never made it past Stan Lee thought-bubble reading level. I'm sure you hate walls of text. I don't especially like writing them either, but oh well. If only one person comes to understand and appreciate my perspective, it's worth it.

Epilogue:

They say a guilty conscious always confesses, whether they are conscious of their crimes or not. You have that confession in the general discussion board when Miraclemet describes how and why he put his take down when he did. He's been burnt before, you see, lost out on other sales from buyers who changed their minds when, as he describes it, they are presented with his low offers for bundles of books, for less than Miraclemet perceives the Seller had hoped for. That's why he put the take down after I told him it wasn't for sale... He did so specifically to pre-empt the possibility from what he described above from happening to him again, despite not actually having any offer made on a book(s) he said he was interested in, maybe. 

That's his excuse folks, a deliberate step to force me into selling that particular book to him when he learned I was going to take it down. All this could have ended as quickly and as painlessly as it started when I reiterated my desire to pull it assuring him that it wasn't some sort pressure tactic. That would be quite a ridiculously stupid pressure tactic and is really a nonsensical explanation. He did not remove or rescind his take. He didn't even make any offer, despite that take. No, instead, he went grumbling about what happened to the brotherhood. I suspect he's been around more than long enough to know what happens when you bump the brotherhood's hive. I'll bet if I went back through that thread, I'd find more instances of the brethren being called into service in such a manner, right?

Well, I'm not about to allow anyone to extort property from me, for any reason. Ostracize me all you'd like, I don't care.  I guess you can all buy safely in the knowledge that the next time someone lets you know they're going to pull a book from sale, something you might be thinking you're interested in, maybe, you can always force that seller to sell it to you, for at least asking price, by dropping your take down even after they've told you it's being pulled. Hey, if they don't like it, you can call in the cavalry with a simple grumble.

The saddest part in all this is the number of comments I've read along the lines of how my reputation has been destroyed here, "all over a matter of, at most, a possible few hundred bucks." or some variant.

Lol, god almighty, so what? It's a matter of PRINCIPLE. This world wouldn't be such a place if more people stood up for themselves and the truth. 

All of you sticklers for the rules apparently have such blind allegiance to them that you can't perceive when people may actually be GAMING them to their benefit, walking away unscathed if the resultant tornado of peer pressure doens't work out in their favor.  

If at this point, you STILL don't get it, then I'm absolutely, positively in the wrong place and amongst the wrong people. 

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20 hours ago, joeypost said:

Anyone else feel that Agamoto is deserving of being put on the probation list? Total nonsense from that guy. 

I think part of the problem is that he hasn't been here that long and doesn't understand how the sales forum works.  Essentially he doesn't understand that once a book has been taken in a thread it's required that the buyer pay for it and the seller ship it.  It's not any different than pulling a book out of a dealer box at a show and the dealer refusing to sell it at the stickered price because it had spiked since he priced it.

While I have some sympathy for his situation and I suspect he didn't realize the risk he was taking by leaving a book up for sale when he had decided to pull it, I would agree with a probation nomination.

 

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1 hour ago, agamoto said:

Columbo Detective GIF - Columbo Detective Confused GIFs

Oh, just one more thing...

Lol, probation huh? You guys are a hoot! Let me restate this as clearly and as succinctly as I can.

1. Seller puts some 30 or so books up for sale worth $15K or so. Plenty of rich detail provided. Links to pics, current GoCollect and GPA FMV's, free CGC grader notes, links to the census reports, etc. Arguably, above average content. 

2. Shopper comes along and says he's "Interested, maybe"  in some unspecified books and whether the books are pressed or not 

3. Seller says they are all pressed, some better than others and asks which ones he's interested in.

4. Shopper replies indicating he's "thinking about" a bundle deal of Avengers 8 and Hulk 141

5. Seller pulls those books off the shelf. Knows for sure one is pressed, and determines one of them actually isn't.

6. Seller responds to Shopper telling him one's pressed, the other isn't and the Hulk book that isn't pressed is going to be removed from sale. 

7. Shopper disregards this and now suddenly has gone from thinking about a sweet Avengers 8 and Hulk 141 bundle to wanting that 9.2 unpressed Hulk book, the one he's always wanted, but was just told was being pulled from sale in the prior message. He tells the Seller he wants that book. Not the Avengers 8, not the bundle. Just the Hulk. 

8. A minute after that, the Shopper puts a "take" in the thread too. He would explain later that he did this because the Seller hadn't updated the thread yet to indicate it was being pulled and he thought it was form of sales pressure tactic. 

9. The Seller returns to the forum 15 minutes later and responds to the Shopper's PM clarifying the book is indeed being pulled. 

10. The Seller updates the ad to indicate it's pulled and the Shopper posts a "well that's that" message with a frown. 

11. The Seller see this and offers the Shopper a great deal. First crack at the book with an additional 10% off with the value pegged at present FMV @ grade, even if it goes up in value.

12. The Shopper enters a general discussion thread to publicly grumble about the take he has just been denied.

13. That's apparently all it takes for the brotherhood members to engage in the sales thread, letting the seller know how things work 'round here, and how he oughta just respect the take or lose reputation/privileges.

14. The Seller notices one of the sales thread comments references another thread, reads the content and time stamps there and recognizes immediately that the Shopper not only failed to accurately describe the manner in which events took place, he also provides embellished reasoning in an apparent effort to make himself look like a victim. 

15. The Seller tries in vain in both threads to represent the facts as they actually were. To show that the Shopper wasn't a victim and was aware of the book being removed from sale before trying to take it. The entire situation begins to resemble a shakedown by proxy, en masse. No one gives a . No one wants to read his walls of text. Several point to the Seller's rules that say "no matter what" as if that's some sort of waiver that dismisses a shopper being purposefully manipulative.

16. The Seller refuses to back down or cave in, which only earns him the permanent ire of more and more board-members by refusing to "do the right thing." or posting 1000 word diatribe position papers providing context that go completely unread anyway. Facts don't matter and perception is everything. This... is 2020.

17. Frustrated with the community in general, The Seller closes the thread, never to sell here again, but quite thankful to those who did purchase the $15,000 or so in books. Thanks, everyone, you know where to find me.   

Still with me? Probably not. I apologize to those of you who never made it past Stan Lee thought-bubble reading level. I'm sure you hate walls of text. I don't especially like writing them either, but oh well. If only one person comes to understand and appreciate my perspective, it's worth it.

Epilogue:

They say a guilty conscious always confesses, whether they are conscious of their crimes or not. You have that confession in the general discussion board when Miraclemet describes how and why he put his take down when he did. He's been burnt before, you see, lost out on other sales from buyers who changed their minds when, as he describes it, they are presented with his low offers for bundles of books, for less than Miraclemet perceives the Seller had hoped for. That's why he put the take down after I told him it wasn't for sale... He did so specifically to pre-empt the possibility from what he described above from happening to him again, despite not actually having any offer made on a book(s) he said he was interested in, maybe. 

That's his excuse folks, a deliberate step to force me into selling that particular book to him when he learned I was going to take it down. All this could have ended as quickly and as painlessly as it started when I reiterated my desire to pull it assuring him that it wasn't some sort pressure tactic. That would be quite a ridiculously stupid pressure tactic and is really a nonsensical explanation. He did not remove or rescind his take. He didn't even make any offer, despite that take. No, instead, he went grumbling about what happened to the brotherhood. I suspect he's been around more than long enough to know what happens when you bump the brotherhood's hive. I'll bet if I went back through that thread, I'd find more instances of the brethren being called into service in such a manner, right?

Well, I'm not about to allow anyone to extort property from me, for any reason. Ostracize me all you'd like, I don't care.  I guess you can all buy safely in the knowledge that the next time someone lets you know they're going to pull a book from sale, something you might be thinking you're interested in, maybe, you can always force that seller to sell it to you, for at least asking price, by dropping your take down even after they've told you it's being pulled. Hey, if they don't like it, you can call in the cavalry with a simple grumble.

The saddest part in all this is the number of comments I've read along the lines of how my reputation has been destroyed here, "all over a matter of, at most, a possible few hundred bucks." or some variant.

Lol, god almighty, so what? It's a matter of PRINCIPLE. This world wouldn't be such a place if more people stood up for themselves and the truth. 

All of you sticklers for the rules apparently have such blind allegiance to them that you can't perceive when people may actually be GAMING them to their benefit, walking away unscathed if the resultant tornado of peer pressure doens't work out in their favor.  

If at this point, you STILL don't get it, then I'm absolutely, positively in the wrong place and amongst the wrong people. 

Good, we agree.

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Hold on @agamoto, you stated "I am absolutely through with this community,..." yesterday at 1:26 am; but, I see a post from you four hours ago.  Someone must have hi-jacked your account.  I'm sure after all your vehement postings about the factual recounting of your sales (or rather non-sales) incident, that you would not present a falsehood.  

Before I retired, I had a few folks that worked for me over the years that put more work into not doing the work than actually just doing the work.  Your lengthy rants and blathering remind me of those folks.  The good thing for me is I can get entertainment of these things instead of investing time and effort in the managing it.  

So is the epilogue from your last post really the epilogue or some segue into more mindless titillations?  

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1 minute ago, telerites said:

Hold on @agamoto, you stated "I am absolutely through with this community,..." yesterday at 1:26 am; but, I see a post from you four hours ago.  Someone must have hi-jacked your account.  I'm sure after all your vehement postings about the factual recounting of your sales (or rather non-sales) incident, that you would not present a falsehood.  

Before I retired, I had a few folks that worked for me over the years that put more work into not doing the work than actually just doing the work.  Your lengthy rants and blathering remind me of those folks.  The good thing for me is I can get entertainment of these things instead of investing time and effort in the managing it.  

So is the epilogue from your last post really the epilogue or some segue into more mindless titillations?  

This users word means very little here, Jeff.  He also said this:

"First one to respond with a take it wins, no matter what"

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2 minutes ago, agamoto said:

I lived in Bonnie Doon, you lived in Strathearn... Connors Road was never going to be wide enough. 

Again with this, is that as far as you got? "No matter what" doesn't include attempts to abuse the rule to extort a book from someone. 

Am I going to have to break out the crayolas and construction paper? 

I'm done selling anything here. Rules are great. There should also be a rule that forbids people from using rule #1 to force someone into selling something to them after being explicitly told the item wasn't for sale, twice. I stopped all my sales as soon as all this brigading BS started. The $15K in books I've sold here are already out the door. I'll gladly sell the rest elsewhere. Meanwhile, feel free to titillate yourself.

 "I am absolutely through with this community,..." 

Joker.jpg.bf22173c650b4fa3ceba04428defad46.jpg

NOT!

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I do not see the point of any type of HoS nomination, no one is out anything and nothing material has been lost/sold/taken/given/traded/bartered. There is no loss to make good.

That is why there are personal lists.

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6 hours ago, agamoto said:

I lived in Bonnie Doon, you lived in Strathearn... Connors Road was never going to be wide enough. 

Again with this, is that as far as you got? "No matter what" doesn't include attempts to abuse the rule to extort a book from someone. 

Am I going to have to break out the crayolas and construction paper? 

I'm done selling anything here. Rules are great. There should also be a rule that forbids people from using rule #1 to force someone into selling something to them after being explicitly told the item wasn't for sale, twice. I stopped all my sales as soon as all this brigading BS started. The $15K in books I've sold here are already out the door. I'll gladly sell the rest elsewhere. Meanwhile, feel free to titillate yourself.

Good. You’re not the only seller who has the keys someone might like to buy. There are plenty other GREAT sellers here in this forums.  Compare to other sites ... I consider to be one of best places to find unique and cool vintage comics. As long we understood the rules and worked with them ... after the first time onwards, it get better as many sellers tweaked and fine tuned their sale threads, more smoother ( and lot more fun). We get along well, even made some friendships and relationships between many of us here. 
 

You, sir, is welcome to take your long-winded superior rants with you and take your “chip on shoulder” with you. You just don’t get the gist ... missed the point. Good luck, I have no regrets about you at all. Bye. 

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14 hours ago, agamoto said:

Columbo Detective GIF - Columbo Detective Confused GIFs

Oh, just one more thing...

Lol, probation huh? You guys are a hoot! Let me restate this as clearly and as succinctly as I can.

1. Seller puts some 30 or so books up for sale worth $15K or so. Plenty of rich detail provided. Links to pics, current GoCollect and GPA FMV's, free CGC grader notes, links to the census reports, etc. Arguably, above average content. 

2. Shopper comes along and says he's "Interested, maybe"  in some unspecified books and whether the books are pressed or not 

3. Seller says they are all pressed, some better than others and asks which ones he's interested in.

4. Shopper replies indicating he's "thinking about" a bundle deal of Avengers 8 and Hulk 141

5. Seller pulls those books off the shelf. Knows for sure one is pressed, and determines one of them actually isn't.

6. Seller responds to Shopper telling him one's pressed, the other isn't and the Hulk book that isn't pressed is going to be removed from sale. 

7. Shopper disregards this and now suddenly has gone from thinking about a sweet Avengers 8 and Hulk 141 bundle to wanting that 9.2 unpressed Hulk book, the one he's always wanted, but was just told was being pulled from sale in the prior message. He tells the Seller he wants that book. Not the Avengers 8, not the bundle. Just the Hulk. 

8. A minute after that, the Shopper puts a "take" in the thread too. He would explain later that he did this because the Seller hadn't updated the thread yet to indicate it was being pulled and he thought it was form of sales pressure tactic. 

9. The Seller returns to the forum 15 minutes later and responds to the Shopper's PM clarifying the book is indeed being pulled. 

10. The Seller updates the ad to indicate it's pulled and the Shopper posts a "well that's that" message with a frown. 

11. The Seller see this and offers the Shopper a great deal. First crack at the book with an additional 10% off with the value pegged at present FMV @ grade, even if it goes up in value.

12. The Shopper enters a general discussion thread to publicly grumble about the take he has just been denied.

13. That's apparently all it takes for the brotherhood members to engage in the sales thread, letting the seller know how things work 'round here, and how he oughta just respect the take or lose reputation/privileges.

14. The Seller notices one of the sales thread comments references another thread, reads the content and time stamps there and recognizes immediately that the Shopper not only failed to accurately describe the manner in which events took place, he also provides embellished reasoning in an apparent effort to make himself look like a victim. 

15. The Seller tries in vain in both threads to represent the facts as they actually were. To show that the Shopper wasn't a victim and was aware of the book being removed from sale before trying to take it. The entire situation begins to resemble a shakedown by proxy, en masse. No one gives a . No one wants to read his walls of text. Several point to the Seller's rules that say "no matter what" as if that's some sort of waiver that dismisses a shopper being purposefully manipulative.

16. The Seller refuses to back down or cave in, which only earns him the permanent ire of more and more board-members by refusing to "do the right thing." or posting 1000 word diatribe position papers providing context that go completely unread anyway. Facts don't matter and perception is everything. This... is 2020.

17. Frustrated with the community in general, The Seller closes the thread, never to sell here again, but quite thankful to those who did purchase the $15,000 or so in books. Thanks, everyone, you know where to find me.   

Still with me? Probably not. I apologize to those of you who never made it past Stan Lee thought-bubble reading level. I'm sure you hate walls of text. I don't especially like writing them either, but oh well. If only one person comes to understand and appreciate my perspective, it's worth it.

Epilogue:

They say a guilty conscious always confesses, whether they are conscious of their crimes or not. You have that confession in the general discussion board when Miraclemet describes how and why he put his take down when he did. He's been burnt before, you see, lost out on other sales from buyers who changed their minds when, as he describes it, they are presented with his low offers for bundles of books, for less than Miraclemet perceives the Seller had hoped for. That's why he put the take down after I told him it wasn't for sale... He did so specifically to pre-empt the possibility from what he described above from happening to him again, despite not actually having any offer made on a book(s) he said he was interested in, maybe. 

That's his excuse folks, a deliberate step to force me into selling that particular book to him when he learned I was going to take it down. All this could have ended as quickly and as painlessly as it started when I reiterated my desire to pull it assuring him that it wasn't some sort pressure tactic. That would be quite a ridiculously stupid pressure tactic and is really a nonsensical explanation. He did not remove or rescind his take. He didn't even make any offer, despite that take. No, instead, he went grumbling about what happened to the brotherhood. I suspect he's been around more than long enough to know what happens when you bump the brotherhood's hive. I'll bet if I went back through that thread, I'd find more instances of the brethren being called into service in such a manner, right?

Well, I'm not about to allow anyone to extort property from me, for any reason. Ostracize me all you'd like, I don't care.  I guess you can all buy safely in the knowledge that the next time someone lets you know they're going to pull a book from sale, something you might be thinking you're interested in, maybe, you can always force that seller to sell it to you, for at least asking price, by dropping your take down even after they've told you it's being pulled. Hey, if they don't like it, you can call in the cavalry with a simple grumble.

The saddest part in all this is the number of comments I've read along the lines of how my reputation has been destroyed here, "all over a matter of, at most, a possible few hundred bucks." or some variant.

Lol, god almighty, so what? It's a matter of PRINCIPLE. This world wouldn't be such a place if more people stood up for themselves and the truth. 

All of you sticklers for the rules apparently have such blind allegiance to them that you can't perceive when people may actually be GAMING them to their benefit, walking away unscathed if the resultant tornado of peer pressure doens't work out in their favor.  

If at this point, you STILL don't get it, then I'm absolutely, positively in the wrong place and amongst the wrong people. 

Cliff notes version :blahblah:

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