PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[telerites]

On 6/21/2017 at 0:56 PM, Larryw7 said:

That's his modus operandi. Blame the victim, especially if they are posters on the CGC forums. Or blame an illness that either he or his daughter may or may not have suffered. He's one of the biggest scammers in the business. He gives Danny Dupcak a run for his money. I hope you get what you ordered from him soon.

Now that is saying something.

[DeadOne]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 6:29 AM, AmazingComics413 said:

Not sure if this is probation worthy, looking for input and not sure which rules apply to these circumstances:

June 14: I make an offer for a slabbed book via PM.

June 15: Seller and I agree on a price, an invoice is sent to my PayPal account.

June 16-17: PayPal invoice is closed by seller, I contact seller to find out what happened, no response from seller.

June 17: Book is claimed with other books by another boardie in the thread. Still no response from seller.

June 19: Book is marked as sold in sales thread.

Today, June 22: After one more PM to the seller I notice that he's started a new sales thread, and has been active on the boards.

Also notice that the book was claimed by another boardie on June 17 after I PMed about the deleted invoice.

It sounds to me like you have a case for nomination.
If you can show that the book has been sold to another after you claimed it, then you can skip the 30-day rule.
Your next step is to notify the seller that they are being nominated for probation.

The rules can be found at the link below.

 

[bababooey]

There a couple questions I have for @AmazingComics413 with regard to the nomination.

Was it the seller's preference to send out a Paypal invoice rather than just give you his email address and an amount to pay?
How long did the invoice sit unpaid before the seller cancelled it & why didn't you claim the book in the thread with "takeit per PM" ?
It's also not clear what happened first, did someone else claim the book first or was the invoice cancelled first?
Did the negotiations on price touch upon any payment timeline or could anything have given the seller an expectation that the invoice they sent you would be paid immediately?  I will tell you that my own opinion is that buyers negotiating on price should be prepared to pay very quickly or be very clear when payment will be made.

Some of the reason for asking these questions is to ensure that this is a slam dunk -  I've always disliked the unjust enrichment penalty associated with this type of nomination where the original deal can't be done.

 

[BeachBum]

21 hours ago, Jonnywadd said:

Chump got eBay to buy into his "already shipped" , and now those books are headed to me.  Chump move by the seller if you ask me.

Name calling huh? It's easy to pick and choose the information to post to make you look good without the full story - Let's rock and roll 

On 1/30/2017 at 10:29 PM, Jonnywadd said:

Dre,

 

So how do we go about this? There is really only one title I am really thinking about subscribing to, but would like all the variants as well. I believe they are just alternate covers and not ratios. The title doesn't start until March and I have to make sure my funds will be right, but I'm pretty sure I can get that figured out. LMK

 

Thanks

Jonathon

Edited June 24, 2017 by BeachBum

[BeachBum]

On 3/15/2017 at 9:20 PM, Jonnywadd said:

I'm planning on doing the entire series.  27 issues I believe.  Plus variants

[BeachBum]

On 5/25/2017 at 5:44 AM, BeachBum said:

CGC is being tough on #1 - there is a swirl on every cover (front bottom left) that's production. I'm re-subbing those specific covers again. If you look at the census there are only a few of the three regular covers even graded yet in varying grades because of this. All of the #2s are graded and back with me here.

I'll keep you posted.

[BeachBum]

On 6/19/2017 at 6:16 PM, Jonnywadd said:

Now I feel like a .  I did think about doing the entire series, but I thought we would be in contact after the first 6 slabs were graded.   And maybe for some reason I thought we were of that understanding.

[BeachBum]

On 6/19/2017 at 6:23 PM, Jonnywadd said:

Okay.  I don't wanna subscribe to the entire series.  It was a plan, but I really thought we'd do 1-2 covers and then talk from there.   Did any #1s come back 9.8?

[thehumantorch]

On 6/21/2017 at 5:40 AM, Tec-Tac-Toe said:

On 6/21/2017 at 1:08 AM, Pickie said:

No.

Not yet.

He emailed me due to my posting on the boards and complained about me. Then, step by step, the email correspondence with him improved, albeit last email of him was from June 1st - "Am gearing up to ship this sign to you. (...)" - with no further message since then. I'm going to ask him about what he wants me to do next some time soon.

I am waiting for a shipment from him dating to 2007 ... I jest. However, having purchased from him many years past, he would, for example, either not ship to me all of the comic books that I had paid for or ship a fine copy of a book although I had purchased and paid for a VF/NM copy (if you grade that subjectively, you are in the wrong business). Of course, he would take several months to ship after I had paid him.

Thankfully, in the end, after many emails and voice messages (I don't recall that he ever answered his telephone), I was able to obtain a refund of all the money I had paid him for books he did not ship or shipped a lower grade copy of, although accepting my money for a higher grade copy. Strangely, I never received a higher graded copy than what I had purchased .

After a purchase from Mr Beerbohm and the subsequent 1 year process to get my book  - actually got an alternate because he couldn't find my book - I'd say, never purchase from him if you actually want to get what you purchased.

[BeachBum]

Here are pictures of all three CGCs that were sent to Jonnywadd and the #1s I was submitting. Also - #3 is already at CGC graded and #4 was about to be dropped off.

 

[thehumantorch]

On 6/22/2017 at 4:12 PM, AmazingComics413 said:

So this is grounds for nomination? I haven't had this situation on the boards yet.

Yes, if you had a deal and he reneged it's PB worthy.

[BeachBum]

Jonnywadd claimed to PayPal that I was trying to keep his money and the books. Jonnywadd reached out to me and asked me for a subscription to this title. I pulled books for him and got them graded by CGC as I do with so many other people here for the past eight years. I notified Jonnywadd that I had an issue with #1s due to production (people are pressing these books to get 9.8s) but would be re-subbing them once CGC saw more copies. He did not reply - almost four weeks later he started asking for an immediate refund and blew up my PMs Monday. I told him that I had been subbing his books as instructed and he even indicated he seemed confused. I went to sleep and for some reason he started assuming I was keeping his money and the books. He then opened a PayPal case. When I woke up to see this I contacted him and told him I would never keep someone's money and contacted PayPal over the matter. PayPal told me to send him the three already graded and refund for the three not graded. I even agreed to eat the cost of the #3 CGC 9.8 and re-sell it and thankfully the #4 had not been dropped off yet.

As you can see by the pictures it was never my intention to scam or steal from this guy. It's a little upsetting to me that he's come on and tried to smear for his own mis-understanding or change of mind. 

[AmazingComics413]

25 minutes ago, bababooey said:

There a couple questions I have for @AmazingComics413 with regard to the nomination.

Was it the seller's preference to send out a Paypal invoice rather than just give you his email address and an amount to pay?
How long did the invoice sit unpaid before the seller cancelled it & why didn't you claim the book in the thread with "takeit per PM" ?
It's also not clear what happened first, did someone else claim the book first or was the invoice cancelled first?
Did the negotiations on price touch upon any payment timeline or could anything have given the seller an expectation that the invoice they sent you would be paid immediately?  I will tell you that my own opinion is that buyers negotiating on price should be prepared to pay very quickly or be very clear when payment will be made.

Some of the reason for asking these questions is to ensure that this is a slam dunk -  I've always disliked the unjust enrichment penalty associated with this type of nomination where the original deal can't be done.

 

@bababooey

I'm not sure if an invoice was the sellers preference, I requested one after we came to an agreement on a price.

The invoice was unpaid for about 48 hours, I didn't think a take per PM was necessary at that point, as my PayPal address was billed immediately. The book was never marked as sold in the thread.

The thread was edited on June 17 at 8:29AM as sold by the seller. I received an email canceling the invoice at 11:11AM on the same day.

No timeline for payment was set between the seller and I. I'm typically prompt with my payments, hit a slight delay this time, and then it was sold to another board member.

[AmazingComics413]

This is the response given by the seller after I asked what happened. (Note that there was no communication between the seller and I during the 48 hour period of me receiving the PayPal invoice and the cancellation.)

Quote: Sorry, I waited 48 hours for payment and hadn't heard from you. Nor did you claim the book in the thread, so I wasn't sure if you were interested and someone else made an offer for the same book. I waited longer for the payment, but moved on since time had passed.

[Jonnywadd]

52 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

On 3/15/2017 at 9:20 PM, Jonnywadd said:

I'm planning on doing the entire series.  27 issues I believe.  Plus variants

Already stated

[bababooey]

41 minutes ago, AmazingComics413 said:

This is the response given by the seller after I asked what happened. (Note that there was no communication between the seller and I during the 48 hour period of me receiving the PayPal invoice and the cancellation.)

Quote: Sorry, I waited 48 hours for payment and hadn't heard from you. Nor did you claim the book in the thread, so I wasn't sure if you were interested and someone else made an offer for the same book. I waited longer for the payment, but moved on since time had passed.

   Scary!  
Based on your summary I figured this was where the seller was going to land - I don't agree with his actions - if there was no expectation to be paid within 48 hours then he can't sell it out from under you after agreeing to a deal -  it appears to be PL worthy.  I still don't like the restitution we have in place for him to get himself removed but that's the law of the land.

Thanks for the earlier responses - I have no further questions. 
 

Edited June 24, 2017 by bababooey

[Jonnywadd]

50 minutes ago, BeachBum said:

On 6/19/2017 at 6:23 PM, Jonnywadd said:

Okay.  I don't wanna subscribe to the entire series.  It was a plan, but I really thought we'd do 1-2 covers and then talk from there.   Did any #1s come back 9.8?

No, they didn't and still haven't been submitted.  It's over man.  I believe communication could be a lot more clear between a seller and buyer.  I know that you know a collector wouldn't want #2s without #1s.  But, it's already been handled by paypal unfortunately.  I guess people can place orders, only receive half, and then get half their money back.

[BeachBum]

23 minutes ago, Jonnywadd said:

No, they didn't and still haven't been submitted.  It's over man.  I believe communication could be a lot more clear between a seller and buyer.  I know that you know a collector wouldn't want #2s without #1s.  But, it's already been handled by paypal unfortunately.  I guess people can place orders, only receive half, and then get half their money back.

So should put you the probation list for attempting to keep the items that were sent to you on your appeal today that PayPal swiftly shot down?

Listen - As I said in the PM thread I'm an easy going guy. If you would have just been clear from the start that you were hedging on the series it would have been easier for both of us but you requested the subscription - I didn't put these items up for sale and then you took them down with an .

I feel like the way you were demanding product so quickly that you were in fact trying to use me to flip them eBay, saw the market wasn't moving in the seller's direction and decided to cut and run. That's the impression you gave me with your PM barrage Monday evening. Asking me to break up payments as a favor and then demanding immediate refund also tells me maybe it was about the money as well. You know full well it was my intention to get you what you asked for but every time you blamed yourself via PM on Monday for the confusion you then immediately threw it back on me. After I told you I was putting my newborn to sleep and going to bed you continued to post PMs where you were talking yourself into jumping into the assumption that I was trying to keep your money and opened a case on me that wasn't necessary. Like I told you Tuesday morning you're the first person in my seventeen years on eBay/PayPal and nine years here on the board to open a PayPal claim other than a few people over the years that have attempted chargeback scams.  The whole collector thing doesn't hold since the easy thing for you to do if you were so in a rush to get the #1s is just to go on eBay and buy them there. Then you would still have the #2s and the #1s and the #3 and the #4, etc.

The fact that you tried to appeal the case on an "Item not described" claim knowing full well you just received the books is really shady as well. I'm the one out money, right now - not you - on the #1s that I was going to re-sub, the #3 that is CGC 9.8 graded, and the #4 that was just picked up.

If you would have come to me in the first place and just said - "Hey, I changed my mind, can we just call it a day and ship out what's graded and refund the rest" none of this would have happened in the first place... and you wouldn't have had to come on here and call me a "Chump."

 

Edited June 24, 2017 by BeachBum

[Jonnywadd]

Plus, just because I say I'm planning on something doesn't mean that anyone should continue without any kind of confirmation.  "I'm planning on buying a WD #1 in 9.8" doesn't mean that I'm buying one from anybody.  

If the whole #3 & #4 gibberish is eliminated, then we are left with the #1 and #2 issue.  Yes, you said #1s we're having problems and #2s we're finished.  I didn't reply to give you some more time.  But, that was my update I asked for.  4 weeks later and I see (from the pics) that #1s still aren't finished.  As a buyer, I wasn't happy and wanted my money back.  From the PMs I felt like you were trying to lead me into believing that I was stuck and that me asking for a refund was wrong. Then you went to sleep. ( I understand having kids too).  I felt that only half my order was finished and not the entire order I was looking for so I opened a case.  I did this because I didn't feel like you wanted to work with me on this.  The "deposit" thing was confusing too.

[BeachBum]

Just now, Jonnywadd said:

Plus, just because I say I'm planning on something doesn't mean that anyone should continue without any kind of confirmation.  "I'm planning on buying a WD #1 in 9.8" doesn't mean that I'm buying one from anybody.  

If the whole #3 & #4 gibberish is eliminated, then we are left with the #1 and #2 issue.  Yes, you said #1s we're having problems and #2s we're finished.  I didn't reply to give you some more time.  But, that was my update I asked for.  4 weeks later and I see (from the pics) that #1s still aren't finished.  As a buyer, I wasn't happy and wanted my money back.  From the PMs I felt like you were trying to lead me into believing that I was stuck and that me asking for a refund was wrong. Then you went to sleep. ( I understand having kids too).  I felt that only half my order was finished and not the entire order I was looking for so I opened a case.  I did this because I didn't feel like you wanted to work with me on this.  The "deposit" thing was confusing too.

No - you asked for your money back before I showed you the pics. Let's be clear on this. You can spin this all you want. You wanted a subscription & I told you about the pre-pay based on the number of issues you were requesting. As I indicated it is usually three issues at a time but I would take the six issue pre-pay based on what you were telling me - 1 A, B, C, 2 A,B, & 3. You then notified me that there were in fact three covers as well for issue #2 so I said I would count the pre-pay for those six issues. I take the pre-pay so people don't request things from me and then cut and run. I did not request any additional money when #3 was graded because you still had a credit of three issues.

You asked for the subscription with all Variants.

I gave you time to pay for the pre-pay on these books you asked to subscribe to. Last year at SDCC I hooked you up with that Mystery set on your birthday. Back in September last year you asked me for a book and asked if I could give you some time to pay for it - I tried to help you and said yes and you never responded... a month later you asked me out of nowhere if I still had the book which I didn't because you never responded.

If that doesn't paint me as someone who has tried to help you I don't know what the say - certainly not deserving of you coming on and trying warp the situation in your favor and calling me a "Chump".