Invincible 1st app question/debate

[short_box-migration]

Now for arguments sake...Walking Dead 61 is considered the 1st app of Chew. And it's a preview.

 

CGC doesn't consider WD #61 the 1st appearance of Chew - it's just labelled as "5 page preview".

 

I have no problem with cameos, etc, being considered the 1st appearances - because, technically, that's what they are - but a preview in a non-related book is a different beast altogether.

 

Just as an FYI, Overstreet no longer uses the term "cameo". They realized they had been using it incorrectly, as a character has to be established before they can have a cameo. Here's Tom Gordon's quotes (and he talks about Gobblygook too). But this begs the question - now, according to Overstreet, WD # 61 would be the (brief) 1st app of Chew?

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=2305297&Searchpage=1&Main=122940&Words=cameo+TomG&topic=0&Search=true#Post2305297

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=4&Number=2499674&Searchpage=1&Main=132114&Words=cameo+TomG&topic=0&Search=true#Post2499674

[mschmidt]

FSNC's value will eventually fall some I think. At least in my eyes it should.

 

FSNC? Think you mean NC:FS

 

Why would it drop in value, though? NC:FS is the first appearance of Invincible - it's a cameo, yes, but it's on the record as being the first appearance. It's never going to as valuable as Invincible #1 - just like Incredible Hulk #180 isn't as valuable as Incredible Hulk #181 - but if Invincible remains popular, there's no reason why the value of this book would drop ...

[fastballspecial]

FSNC's value will eventually fall some I think. At least in my eyes it should.

 

FSNC? Think you mean NC:FS

 

Why would it drop in value, though? NC:FS is the first appearance of Invincible - it's a cameo, yes, but it's on the record as being the first appearance. It's never going to as valuable as Invincible #1 - just like Incredible Hulk #180 isn't as valuable as Incredible Hulk #181 - but if Invincible remains popular, there's no reason why the value of this book would drop ...

 

FSNC?? My bad there

 

Yes I understand your point, but I was thinking with 3 available books now with 2 that either shipped before or at the same time as that book I was think the value might decrease. BUT I was thinking incorrectly. While NC:FS is considered a cameo and a lame one at that its still a cameo.

 

 

The others are Previews. So now are we going to have to set up another identifier in the OS and at CGC? Cameo, 1st Apperance and now Preview??. So how does a Preview label affect the value? So SD 102, MOTU 1, and TechJacket 1 are all Previews. NC:FS is considered the cameo and Invincible 1 is considered the 1st appearance.

 

Now how does Kirkman's opinion come into all this when he says TechJacket 1 is the first appearance. I just want to get all this clarified, because right now I will pick up a Tech or SD or MOTU anytime in NM/NM+ for $1 any day.

 

Keep in mind too I think its hard to use any but moderns as comparable examples as well because they didnt have this preview problem back then during Bronze.

 

I think it will be interesting to see how the slabs pan out on this one its a great question and good discussion topic.

 

[maloney414]

Here are the actual dates of the previews in question with the diamond link:

 

Tech-Jacket #1 came out 11/20/02

http://www.diamondcomics.com/shipping/archive/2002/112002.txt

 

FSNC #3 and Savage Dragon #102 came out 12/04/02

http://www.diamondcomics.com/shipping/archive/2002/120402.txt

 

MoTU #1 came out 12/11/02

http://www.diamondcomics.com/shipping/archive/2002/121102.txt

 

So if you count previews as 1st appearances TJ #1 would be the 1st app. It beats SD #102 by 1 week, and MoTU #1 by 2 weeks.

 

FSNC #3 is definitely just a cameo, since he's only in 1 small panel which is a headshot. He has another headshot on one of the 2 covers. Plus, he appears in the wrong colors for his costume, as it was changed before Invincible #1 came out.

 

1st FULL appearance (not counting Previews) is Invincible #1.

 

However, this has only recently been recognized by CGC. You can still find copies of FSNC #3 with "1st appearance of Invincible" on the label and copies of Invincible #1 with nothing. Nowadays, they have switched to adding "cameo" to FSNC and "1st full appearance" to Invincible #1.

 

Yup, lots of confusion on this one.

 

So just decide for yourself and run with it.

 

You pretty much cleared it up here for me anyways. I will be slowly stocking up on SD102 and Tech Jacket I think. Heck what do you have to lose for buying a book at $1 anyway. FSNC's value will eventually fall some I think. At least in my eyes it should.

 

The questions left unanswered will be how CGC applies a label to Tech Jacket and SD 102.

 

I've never seen a graded Tech Jacket #1 so I don't know what goes on that label.

 

I bought my copy at a LCS out of a quarter box. When I told the guys at the counter it was the 1st appearance of Invincible and showed them the preview inside their jaws hit the floor. Most people don't know about these preview books.

 

 

[seanfingh]

I bought my copy at a LCS out of a quarter box. When I told the guys at the counter it was the 1st appearance of Invincible and showed them the preview inside their jaws hit the floor. Most people don't know about these preview books.

 

I don't mean any disrespect, but that book will never be considered the 1st appearance of Invincible. First off, the market has already spoken. NC:FS and Invincible 1 are the big boys. Secondly, the market has consistently stated that preview books are not first appearances. Whatever continuity or milieu the author is creating is actually begun with the #1. The preview is just some pre-production pages.

 

There are cases where the preview book does achieve some value (Avatar Illustrated 98) but the market is too far behind other books for Tech-Jacket ever to be a book like that.

[Lebowski]

I love it when Sean mentions Goon, even in the slightest.

[KolmarAvenue]

This should be fun...

 

Tech Jacket 1

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Invincible-1-Preview-Tech-Jacket-1-RARE-LOOK_W0QQitemZ220471075864QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item335519a418&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

 

I guess we'll see what the market says...btw, not my auction.

 

Steven

 

[fastballspecial]

Well they are reading here at least. Some of it is taken directly from here.

 

[maloney414]

Well they are reading here at least. Some of it is taken directly from here.

 

I should request a cut of the sales, after providing all those links.

 

Then again 10% of 0 bids is ...

 

The speculation is that someday that book might be worth something. Right now it's in quarter and dollar boxes. And that something isn't going to be a fortune. Maybe it'll be a $10 book someday.

 

As I stated before, people just don't know about this book. Plus, there is the debate about whether or not a preview is a 1st appearance to begin with.

 

Like I said in the post with the links, even CGC has been confused by this one and you just have to make up your own mind. Is it the preview, the cameo, or Invincible #1?

[WDMARVELCOMICS]

That same seller, also has a 5 day regular style auction going and it already has 2 bids. It's at $3.25 with 4 days left. If you add thier shipping price to the total it's at $8.25 delivered so far!

 

Thanks,

Wil

[mschmidt]

As I stated before, people just don't know about this book. Plus, there is the debate about whether or not a preview is a 1st appearance to begin with.

 

Like I said in the post with the links, even CGC has been confused by this one and you just have to make up your own mind. Is it the preview, the cameo, or Invincible #1?

CGC has never considered these previews to be the 1st appearance - so what's there to be confused about?

[KolmarAvenue]

As I stated before, people just don't know about this book. Plus, there is the debate about whether or not a preview is a 1st appearance to begin with.

 

Like I said in the post with the links, even CGC has been confused by this one and you just have to make up your own mind. Is it the preview, the cameo, or Invincible #1?

CGC has never considered these previews to be the 1st appearance - so what's there to be confused about?

 

I think that it's really only important to completists. Possibly not even a factor of 1st app or not. I looked up the sales data and there's between a 11-12k print run. For most people it's not important, but like a lot of people who collect, anytime there's anything out there connected to my interests that's obscure or that I didn't know about, I like to pick it up. I mean I picked up the image winter book just for the 6 page walking dead story. I bought the comico collection just for devil's vagary. Add to the fact that most of these are most likely getting roughly handled in dollar or less bins, it could eventually be a tough find in high grade. now the motu 1 had a print run of like 100k.

[ChemEng]

How about the Larry's comic book question? I really think it was more than a 1K print run judging by how easy they seem to be to come by.

 

My 2 cents: The tech jacket is just a preview of the first few pages of Invincible #1, so most casual collectors picking up the collection from scratch will start with #1 to get the whole story. Speculators generated from sellers like on Ebay may drive up the price, and completionist too. But the value just isn't there. IMO, it should probably be priced at about $5-$10. A factor less than Invincible #1, but more than a dollar box comic.

[maloney414]

As I stated before, people just don't know about this book. Plus, there is the debate about whether or not a preview is a 1st appearance to begin with.

 

Like I said in the post with the links, even CGC has been confused by this one and you just have to make up your own mind. Is it the preview, the cameo, or Invincible #1?

CGC has never considered these previews to be the 1st appearance - so what's there to be confused about?

 

You're somehow stuck on the Preview issue.

 

CGC has changed there labels on the other two books. This is from my previous post:

 

However, this has only recently been recognized by CGC. You can still find copies of FSNC #3 with "1st appearance of Invincible" on the label and copies of Invincible #1 with nothing. Nowadays, they have switched to adding "cameo" to FSNC and "1st full appearance" to Invincible #1.

 

 

 

 

 

[mschmidt]

As I stated before, people just don't know about this book. Plus, there is the debate about whether or not a preview is a 1st appearance to begin with.

 

Like I said in the post with the links, even CGC has been confused by this one and you just have to make up your own mind. Is it the preview, the cameo, or Invincible #1?

CGC has never considered these previews to be the 1st appearance - so what's there to be confused about?

 

You're somehow stuck on the Preview issue.

 

CGC has changed there labels on the other two books. This is from my previous post:

 

However, this has only recently been recognized by CGC. You can still find copies of FSNC #3 with "1st appearance of Invincible" on the label and copies of Invincible #1 with nothing. Nowadays, they have switched to adding "cameo" to FSNC and "1st full appearance" to Invincible #1.

 

Sure - but what I was responding to was this:

 

"Plus, there is the debate about whether or not a preview is a 1st appearance to begin with."

 

My point is merely that this has never been a debatable issue with CGC.

[maloney414]

As I stated before, people just don't know about this book. Plus, there is the debate about whether or not a preview is a 1st appearance to begin with.

 

Like I said in the post with the links, even CGC has been confused by this one and you just have to make up your own mind. Is it the preview, the cameo, or Invincible #1?

CGC has never considered these previews to be the 1st appearance - so what's there to be confused about?

 

You should know that CGC has considered Previews as 1st appearances before. Here is an example: Amazing Spider-Man #365 has a preview of Spider-Man 2099 in it. I know it's a worthless book with a mostly forgotten character but its a quick example I could find.

 

 

It just illustrates my point that sometimes it's not clear, and it's really up to us as individuals to decide.

 

There are numerous examples in which Wizard, Overstreet, and CGC disagree on 1st appearances.

 

 

 

 

[fastballspecial]

How about the Larry's comic book question? I really think it was more than a 1K print run judging by how easy they seem to be to come by.

 

My 2 cents: The tech jacket is just a preview of the first few pages of Invincible #1, so most casual collectors picking up the collection from scratch will start with #1 to get the whole story. Speculators generated from sellers like on Ebay may drive up the price, and completionist too. But the value just isn't there. IMO, it should probably be priced at about $5-$10. A factor less than Invincible #1, but more than a dollar box comic.

 

I like your point here. While I think it will be a little higher like $15-30 eventually once news gets out eventually. I still will buy them for under $1 in NM anytime I can. I too think Larrys was a higher print run I see them all the time for sale.

[seanfingh]

 

Doesn't anyone, even from the printed account, pick up the sarcasm in Kirkman's supposed "indorsement" of Tech-Jacket? The guy says "Hey, it's worth money." Kirkman, tongue planted firmly in cheek and knowing that he has at least a case of comped copies of tech jacket at home in the garage says "Really, then it is Tech-jacket!"

 

Come on, folks. This is not like Mignola stating what his thoughts are on the 1st Hellboy debate. This is Kirkman making a joke. Buy all the tech jacket #1s you want. I hope you all make a fortune on them. But propogating Kirkman's joke as his indorsement of the book borders on shady.

[maloney414]

Doesn't anyone, even from the printed account, pick up the sarcasm in Kirkman's supposed "indorsement" of Tech-Jacket? The guy says "Hey, it's worth money." Kirkman, tongue planted firmly in cheek and knowing that he has at least a case of comped copies of tech jacket at home in the garage says "Really, then it is Tech-jacket!"

 

Come on, folks. This is not like Mignola stating what his thoughts are on the 1st Hellboy debate. This is Kirkman making a joke. Buy all the tech jacket #1s you want. I hope you all make a fortune on them. But propogating Kirkman's joke as his indorsement of the book borders on shady.

 

It is definitely true that Kirkman is known for his sense of humor. And he does mislead people frequently for a laugh. Another example of that is the endorsement that the Black Warning Variant of Walking Dead #1 is the more common version. If you actually try to find a copy you'll clearly see it's more rare, and the White Warning is the more common book. (This has been discussed a lot here on the boards.)

 

I don't think people are really basing their arguement on Kirkman's word. I think its clear the book came out first (check the Diamond links earlier in the thread). It's simply a matter of whether or not you believe a Preview counts as a 1st appearance.

 

 

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

Doesn't anyone, even from the printed account, pick up the sarcasm in Kirkman's supposed "indorsement" of Tech-Jacket? The guy says "Hey, it's worth money." Kirkman, tongue planted firmly in cheek and knowing that he has at least a case of comped copies of tech jacket at home in the garage says "Really, then it is Tech-jacket!"

 

Come on, folks. This is not like Mignola stating what his thoughts are on the 1st Hellboy debate. This is Kirkman making a joke. Buy all the tech jacket #1s you want. I hope you all make a fortune on them. But propogating Kirkman's joke as his indorsement of the book borders on shady.

 

It is definitely true that Kirkman is known for his sense of humor. And he does mislead people frequently for a laugh. Another example of that is the endorsement that the Black Warning Variant of Walking Dead #1 is the more common version. If you actually try to find a copy you'll clearly see it's more rare, and the White Warning is the more common book. (This has been discussed a lot here on the boards.)

 

I don't think people are really basing their arguement on Kirkman's word. I think its clear the book came out first (check the Diamond links earlier in the thread). It's simply a matter of whether or not you believe a Preview counts as a 1st appearance.

 

 

Well, that is interesting since you considered it important enough to track down and post in this thread. Plus, the dude pimping it in that auction sure seems to to be trying to get people to take Kirkman's word for it.