Dishonest stuff going on in the Board Only Sales Area Forum...Sad. 5 5

[Jeffro.]

14 hours ago, Buzzetta said:

14 hours ago, Jeffro™ said:

Ancient Thread Resurrection Points Challenge  (ATRPC)  

  Reveal hidden contents

In other words, Pernts!

 

Is this happening? 

I wish

[manetteska]

9 hours ago, mattn792 said:

11 hours ago, manetteska said:

Is this also where we can mention the gullibility and greed of raffles on IG?

Recent items like the above, or at least me looking at them closer, make me believe this hobby is no longer for me. At least when it comes to secondary market items. 

Or maybe I'm just old-fashioned? Or not "business savvy" enough?

2 examples from one seller (a board member, actually); perhaps I'm thinking of this wrong.

1. Raffling a book worth <= $300; raffle spots add up to $400. This raffle's spots are nearly full.

2. Raffling two books in one raffle worth <= $17k; raffle spots add up to $20k. Just a few takers on this one as the buy-in is much higher.

         Since the buy in is considerable, tere are mini-raffles to get into the "main" raffle. I wasn't able to see if this netted the seller even more money, as I started asking questions, was responded to for a bit, then had my comments wiped and was blocked.

To me, that seems like a lot of extra money going to seller for not much of a good reason. (For now, I'll ignore the difficult-to-prove legitimacy of any raffle, let alone one done completely online.)

Oh, and all fees are collected via PayPal friends and family, so no fees for the seller.

Edited October 11, 2019 by manetteska

[1Cool]

25 minutes ago, manetteska said:

Or maybe I'm just old-fashioned? Or not "business savvy" enough?

2 examples from one seller (a board member, actually); perhaps I'm thinking of this wrong.

1. Raffling a book worth <= $300; raffle spots add up to $400. This raffle's spots are nearly full.

2. Raffling two books in one raffle worth <= $17k; raffle spots add up to $20k. Just a few takers on this one as the buy-in is much higher.

         Since the buy in is considerable, tere are mini-raffles to get into the "main" raffle. I wasn't able to see if this netted the seller even more money, as I started asking questions, was responded to for a bit, then had my comments wiped and was blocked.

To me, that seems like a lot of extra money going to seller for not much of a good reason. (For now, I'll ignore the difficult-to-prove legitimacy of any raffle, let alone one done completely online.)

Oh, and all fees are collected via PayPal friends and family, so no fees for the seller.

I did a bunch of raffles last year and it was nice from some stand points but other ways it was not worth it.  To get a $400 raffles filled you would need to have a very hot key book that is worth $325 - $340 or so which would sell quickly on E-Bay.  You put together the raffle, keep up with what spots filled and keep bumping up your raffle since you need a lot of eyes to get a raffle filled.  Then you collect all the $20 payments and make sure everyone paid before having to run a stressful raffle which could be invalidated by not following the rules (which I never had happen but saw it happen all the time).  You do net an extra $100 compared to selling it on E-Bay but then other people will demand you buy into their raffles if you want them to buy yours.  So you end up putting most of that $100 (or more) back into other raffles which could all disappear if you are not lucky.  The money was good but the stress was off the charts compared to posting and forget it on E-Bay.

[Buzzetta]

1 hour ago, Jeffro™ said:

I wish

Not going to lie.  There is something 'giggle worthy' when I see someone resurrect an old thread for legitimate or sincere reasons, only to watch other people devolve into fighting over a topic that is ten years old, eventually getting the thread locked. 

 

[manetteska]

50 minutes ago, 1Cool said:

I did a bunch of raffles last year and it was nice from some stand points but other ways it was not worth it.  To get a $400 raffles filled you would need to have a very hot key book that is worth $325 - $340 or so which would sell quickly on E-Bay.  You put together the raffle, keep up with what spots filled and keep bumping up your raffle since you need a lot of eyes to get a raffle filled.  Then you collect all the $20 payments and make sure everyone paid before having to run a stressful raffle which could be invalidated by not following the rules (which I never had happen but saw it happen all the time).  You do net an extra $100 compared to selling it on E-Bay but then other people will demand you buy into their raffles if you want them to buy yours.  So you end up putting most of that $100 (or more) back into other raffles which could all disappear if you are not lucky.  The money was good but the stress was off the charts compared to posting and forget it on E-Bay.

So a 33% overhead going straight to the seller to cover stress and other raffles he/she has to join is acceptable in raffles?

[1Cool]

30 minutes ago, manetteska said:

So a 33% overhead going straight to the seller to cover stress and other raffles he/she has to join is acceptable in raffles?

Most of the Facebook raffles I was in limited it to 20% over GPA but when you factor in saved fees then 33% sounds right. 

But I've not done one in over a year so maybe they have changed their rules since then.  It was just too big of a time drain and pretty addictive so I leave it alone.

Edited October 11, 2019 by 1Cool

[manetteska]

3 hours ago, 1Cool said:

4 hours ago, manetteska said:

So a 33% overhead going straight to the seller to cover stress and other raffles he/she has to join is acceptable in raffles?

Most of the Facebook raffles I was in limited it to 20% over GPA but when you factor in saved fees then 33% sounds right. 

But I've not done one in over a year so maybe they have changed their rules since then.  It was just too big of a time drain and pretty addictive so I leave it alone.

And we're not going to get into the legality of running a for-profit "raffle" for an individual, right? Which, by necessitating a buy-in, makes them lotteries, not raffles.

Ah, but who cares? Everyone's doing it and I'm making money.

[herc2000]

There may be an extra $100 made by the organizer, but someone will get a $300 comic for $20? I'm guessing the people buying the tickets know this and the risk that they might get nothing is obvious. Also, if the person doing the raffle was just going to get $300 and not make the little extra, then he might as well not do it in the first place and sell it on Ebay? Then the one lucky person who would have won the $300 comic for $20 wont get the win, which they possibly could not afford in the first place?

Edited October 12, 2019 by herc2000

[manetteska]

3 hours ago, herc2000 said:

There may be an extra $100 made by the organizer, but someone will get a $300 comic for $20? I'm guessing the people buying the tickets know this and the risk that they might get nothing is obvious. Also, if the person doing the raffle was just going to get $300 and not make the little extra, then he might as well not do it in the first place and sell it on Ebay? Then the one lucky person who would have won the $300 comic for $20 wont get the win, which they possibly could not afford in the first place?

I know how comic raffles work and their appeal to suckers. Why doesn’t he sell on eBay? Because he gets less money compared to doing something probably illegal but not policed well.

How does this sound: I’ll hold a raffle for $17,000 cash, $50 buy-ins, but first I need to collect $20,000. 

[herc2000]

What if the comic was worth $300 and he only sold $200 worth of tickets, is that okay then?

I've seen big companies do raffles for brand new cars, if the car is worth $100,000 and they sell $200,000 worth of raffle tickets, do they get in trouble for the extra they made?

People are not stupid, if they want to do it, they will and if they don't, then they will not. Is it not up to the individual person whether they want to do it or not, no ones twisting their hands?

If you did a raffle for a $17,000 Amazing Fantasy 15, $50 buy ins, a lot of people would do that on here for the sake of owning such a grail. Then one person here, at his own free will, will be the lucky owner of this magnificent book which ordinarily he would not own. Yes the organizer is making $3000 out of it, but he is possibly working though.

And isn't a raffle better than a lucky dip, as you know someone will get the 17K dream book, where with lucky dips on ebay, how often does anyone ever win the prized gems you see in the pictures?

[manetteska]

$100,000 car?

[csaag]

12 hours ago, manetteska said:

I know how comic raffles work and their appeal to suckers. Why doesn’t he sell on eBay? Because he gets less money compared to doing something probably illegal but not policed well.

How does this sound: I’ll hold a raffle for $17,000 cash, $50 buy-ins, but first I need to collect $20,000. 

That's called a lottery.  To some it's a 'hidden tax on the poor'.  That's when it plays on people's various levels of desperation - selling them a dream with not much chance of it coming true.   Though for others, it's merely a form of entertainment.  No different than the enjoyment they get from any other activity with requires money.   If they can afford it and understand what they're buying (with all the rules clearly established & honestly applied), then I think that's fine.

[manetteska]

4 minutes ago, csaag said:

That's called a lottery.  To some it's a 'hidden tax on the poor'.  That's when it plays on people's various levels of desperation - selling them a dream with not much chance of it coming true.   Though for others, it's merely a form of entertainment.  No different than the enjoyment they get from any other activity with requires money.   If they can afford it and understand what they're buying (with all the rules clearly established & honestly applied), then I think that's fine.

Agreed on the first part. On the second part, private lotteries are illegal, at least in the US. 

And to the other poster, yes, if a company sells $200k of “raffle” tickets for a $100k car, pocketing the extra, that is also illegal. 

[Spiderphill]

Just stay away from raffles. I don’t follow any of the accounts. It’s a fools errand to engage in them. 

[fastballspecial]

On 10/12/2019 at 8:41 AM, manetteska said:

On 10/12/2019 at 4:52 AM, herc2000 said:

There may be an extra $100 made by the organizer, but someone will get a $300 comic for $20? I'm guessing the people buying the tickets know this and the risk that they might get nothing is obvious. Also, if the person doing the raffle was just going to get $300 and not make the little extra, then he might as well not do it in the first place and sell it on Ebay? Then the one lucky person who would have won the $300 comic for $20 wont get the win, which they possibly could not afford in the first place?

I know how comic raffles work and their appeal to suckers. Why doesn’t he sell on eBay? Because he gets less money compared to doing something probably illegal but not policed well.

How does this sound: I’ll hold a raffle for $17,000 cash, $50 buy-ins, but first I need to collect $20,000. 

Its just a newer version of the Mystery Boxes that are banned here. Really its about avoiding fees and less chance of losing your 
money because you use F&F. Also its tax avoidance which I am happy to say paypal has crackdown on this year a lot.

I hate paying taxes on sales, but I take great glea on facebook when I read about another user getting his paypal account closed
for taking in huge amounts on it using F&F.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by fastballspecial

[fastballspecial]

On 10/12/2019 at 12:28 PM, herc2000 said:

What if the comic was worth $300 and he only sold $200 worth of tickets, is that okay then?

I've seen big companies do raffles for brand new cars, if the car is worth $100,000 and they sell $200,000 worth of raffle tickets, do they get in trouble for the extra they made?

People are not stupid, if they want to do it, they will and if they don't, then they will not. Is it not up to the individual person whether they want to do it or not, no ones twisting their hands?

If you did a raffle for a $17,000 Amazing Fantasy 15, $50 buy ins, a lot of people would do that on here for the sake of owning such a grail. Then one person here, at his own free will, will be the lucky owner of this magnificent book which ordinarily he would not own. Yes the organizer is making $3000 out of it, but he is possibly working though.

And isn't a raffle better than a lucky dip, as you know someone will get the 17K dream book, where with lucky dips on ebay, how often does anyone ever win the prized gems you see in the pictures?

Sorry, but many people are stupid and make rash dumb decisions and sellers prey on that.

Does the seller pay the taxes on the sale? You didn't mention that part.

If they do then no problems.If they don't then yeah its a problem. The world of non taxable income
on comic sales is closing fast.Granted if they had just one sale then the might get lucky and not
trigger it because they are staying under the rule, but I bet if you take in $20k and
try to do F&F I bet it ends badly.

 

 

 

[bluehorseshoe]

On 4/22/2010 at 6:34 PM, seank said:

 

Or from reputable sellers. There's at least half a dozen GA guys on these boards (and at least one GA gal, too) from whom I'd buy a raw book based only on their representations.

 

That said, cracking an 8.5 and then trying to sell it as a 9.2 isn't kosher. A new member of the probation list perhaps?

 

But that goes both ways.  I have been on here for 10 years or so, and strictly buy.  There are guys on here that the Herd tends to deem "respectable," but these same folks are guys that I have done an  in their sell thread, and then the book mysteriously disappears, or isnt available, or some other lie. I wont deal with them ever again, nor will they be buying stuff from me in a sell thread if I ever have to or care to make one.  It isnt a big enough deal to start a probation thread about, but other folks dont buy from sellers on here even though they are the greatest things since sliced bread on here.

[ygogolak]

On 10/11/2019 at 9:26 AM, manetteska said:

So a 33% overhead going straight to the seller to cover stress and other raffles he/she has to join is acceptable in raffles?

Yea, I don't understand why it's just accepted but is does not stop people from buying in.

[Buzzetta]

I will do manufacturer blind boxes for toys and things like the Lego minifigures.

I would never do a Facebook, eBay, or CGC Board raffle and I am glad that they were outlawed here. 

Here is the easy scam to get rid of some suspicion. All you need are two people that are friends that live as far apart as possible.   I live in NY so let's say California is where my friend lives.  MOST know how this scam operates but here it is for the newbies that really have faith in humankind and think they have a shot. 

1. Hold the raffle.  Let's use a book worth around $900 - $1100 like ASM 14 in a 3.0.  (Can't believe how that book has recently popped - Check GPA) 
2. People buy in at $50 a 'ticket'.  When 25 slots are full, we hold the raffle bringing the seller, $1250
3. Now, to show that I am on the level I show 25 "unmarked" priority boxes where one of the books is the ASM 14, another is a book worth around $100, another is a book worth around $50 and the rest are filler books "valued" at $50 at cover price. Prepare yourselves for a LOT of drek. 
4. I said they were unmarked but I put a pencil mark where no one can see in the ad. 
5. After payments are received, labels are printed and everything is actually going out or blind boxed to raffle participants EXCEPT ASM 14. 
6. ASM 14 goes to my friend who participated in the raffle. 
7. My friend can either ship the book back to me which is risky OR he can sell the book himself. 
8. We split the money however the arrangement was made resulting in my friend and I roughly splitting almost $2000 for a $1000 book.  I am figuring $1250 in raffle money, $1000 auction or sale of the book - shipping fees, $100 2nd Place Prize, $50 3rd Place Prize, and cost of shipping. 

If anyone suspects anything, I can show documentation that all parcels were mailed out and that the winner that came forward does not live near me which diminishes but does not absolve suspicion. 

Rinse and repeat. 

[1Cool]

I put comic raffles in the same category as March Madness pools and Super Bowl squares - both illegal gambling but there is really no harm in my mind if done on the up and up.  Don't get me wrong - It's gambling plain and simple and has the thrills associated with gambling which is why people do it.