Jerry's All Star #8 better pics

[BLBcomics-migration]

Hello Sport Fans,

 

Rather than get caught up in the peanut gallery

who hijacked that Comics & Life thread which I bit into for a spell,

making it difficult for me to sort out the "real" inquiries about this affair

for which I humbly apologize, I concentrated on working my internet comics business

the last few days, getting new stuff into eBay store as well as packaging orders for mailing, etc.

 

Following "before accident" front and back are some pics

which are better focused taken today by a professional photographer

I know here in town at his studio.

 

Hopefully you will see better now as he knows the mysteries of camera

settings better than I do. If not, will get other angle shots taken and posted.

 

 

As far as I can currently figure out, the above might be the original scans placed

into Jerry's All Stars thread when I first posted a while back now.

I have a G-Drive am looking for a cord for, there is a lot of data and pics inside it,

This might function as a "before" set of pics for some, I trust.

 

 

Here is shown the abrupt pull from the lower staple of the above All Star #8.

 

Note the tear coming out from the hole on the left side.

That was not there before going to get the All Stars slabbed down in Florida.

 

This #8 was ripped off of its its mooring by accidental brute force

while inside the confines of CGC HQ, not falling loose.

 

The whiteness to the right and along the top of the hole is showing interior cover paper

pulled off, no longer a part of the cover's integrity.

 

If this had not happened, who knows how some one like Matt Nelson

could have taken the glue out, as the lower staple looked firmly

attached prior to this accident. Lifting glue off is an art form.

 

The glue that turned out to be on the book was right underneath at the fold,

not visible to normal inspection.

 

Once I made decision to fly the books down to CGC,

we stopped the close up inspections here so as to let the "experts" take over.

 

This accident should not have happened if the CGC receivers

slowed down while handling incoming. Otherwise the mailing tape

would not have gotten on the #7 cover either. Just one man's opine.

 

 

These next two pics show the lower staple as being very visible when looking at the book.

 

Compare to the top two full cover scans,

it looks on the surface to being a very nice copy.

 

Never thought to make close ups of the staples previously on any comic book,

mayhaps that will be done now on for the more expensive material which comes thru here

 

Some on the first run thread here called Jerry's All Stars wrote at the time

they thought it was a contender for being "highest certified" copy.

It looked that nice before the accident inside CGC.

 

 

Here are a few pics taken the night a couple friends of mine

and myself did a cursory close inspection of the All Star run

shortly after I got back from Detroit. Note the cigars and whiskey glasses abounding.

 

My contention has been and will remain that CGC's insurance company

should compensate Jerry's widow for the damage CGC person(s)

did to All Star #7 and #8. They can do whatever they want to after purchasing.

They pulled the rug out from underneath these copies of All Star #7 and #8.

 

Robert Beerbohm

402 459 1709

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[Wayne-Tec]

Hey Robert,

 

I'm not sure if I had commented on your last thread but I do know that I read a fair portion of it. I apologize if I have not gathered all of the details so please bare with me as I'd love to contribute to the conversation.

 

From what I've gathered, you feel that CGC popped the lower staple on the All-Star #8 while other people have felt (or implied) that the staple was glued down and was popped when the glue came loose; is that correct?

 

I'm not sure what actually happened but I am curious about something.

 

If you considered the book to be a contender for being the highest graded copy, or were even aware (as I'm sure you were) that it is a beautiful copy, how did you feel comfortable enough to stand it up the way you did as featured in the picture posted above?

 

For instance, look at the All-Star #25 above the All-Star #8 to the left, wouldn't it at least be possible for that book to fall given how it's positioned? Accidents can happen and while no, I wouldn't expect anything pictured to turn a potential 9.0 into a 4.0; it just doesn't seem as safe as it could be to me.

 

Now, why am I pointing this out?

 

Not to be a pain or to randomly find something to complain about. But it seems as though on one hand, you're accusing CGC of not being as careful as they should have been all the while in the pictures, the book (as well as others) certainly don't appear to being cared for as well as they could have been.

 

Now, it seems like your cause is noble and if there was (and I have no idea if there was or not) some serious damage done to an otherwise HG book (or any book for that matter), yes the owner (or his widow in this case) should be fairly compensated for the error.

 

But the general tone I've gotten from the posts is awfully negative in regards to CGC as a whole and I'm not so sure that it fair. Again, I'm only going by what I've picked up and I apologize for nothing having read all of the posts (there were many) but I would like to see both sides eventually happy.

 

You've clearly put a lot of effort into developing your case but I also haven't seen your posts wiped from the boards so...doesn't seem like CGC is trying to hide anything either.

[Bronty]

I hear you but I think that's beside the point. richard evans had a comment about that book being restored with respect to the shading near the staple that was both objective and extremely convincing. At this point I'm sorry bob but "mayhap" you be dead wrong. Its OK to admit it.

[Wayne-Tec]

I hear you but I think that's beside the point. richard evans had a comment about that book being restored with respect to the shading near the staple that was both objective and extremely convincing. At this point I'm sorry bob but "mayhap" you be dead wrong. Its OK to admit it.

 

Might the book have been restored? Perhaps.

 

But it appears to me that until we have solid proof (and I'm not sure, do we?), I would like to focus more so on what we do know.

 

From as far as I can tell, that specific book (as well as others) did not appear to be handled as carefully as it could have been; the photograph is pretty clear.

 

Think about it this way, if you were to find out that CGC kept of of their submissions on a living room floor, laid up against boxes with somewhat heavy objects spread across tables not far from the books themselves; would you be alarmed in any way? Would you brag to your friends about how safely you felt your books were kept?

 

Of course not.

 

It might be fair to criticize a possible error made on CGC's part if you feel that they were not as careful as they could have been; but it doesn't appear that the book in question was handled with enough care at the time the picture was taken either.

[Doohickamabob]

This accident should not have happened if the CGC receivers

slowed down while handling incoming. Otherwise the mailing tape

would not have gotten on the #7 cover either. Just one man's opine.

 

You haven't told us much about your communication with CGC, and what they said happened to the All Star #8. What was their story? How extensive has your communication been with them?

 

Some on the first run thread here called Jerry's All Stars wrote at the time

they thought it was a contender for being "highest certified" copy.

It looked that nice before the accident inside CGC.

 

According to the CGC census, there is an unrestored copy that grades 9.0. There's also an unrestored 8.5, two 8.0's, a 7.5, a 7.0, two 6.5's, and two 6.0's. In the restored category, there are three 9.0's and three 8.5's. From the looks of things, most/many of the above are in better condition than the copy in question.

 

Your copy includes a section of the cover actually drawn on (the shadowing at the wrist of the figure) to hide the significant restoration at the lower staple.

 

My contention has been and will remain that CGC's insurance company

should compensate Jerry's widow for the damage CGC person(s)

did to All Star #7 and #8. They can do whatever they want to after purchasing.

They pulled the rug out from underneath these copies of All Star #7 and #8.

 

Why are you offering CGC no other options besides buying the comic from you? Especially when your stated price is inflated beyond market value? You still haven't explained your estimated value of $10,000 -- where are you getting that?

[rockman2008]

 

My contention has been and will remain that CGC's insurance company

should compensate Jerry's widow for the damage CGC person(s)

did to All Star #7 and #8. They can do whatever they want to after purchasing.

They pulled the rug out from underneath these copies of All Star #7 and #8.

 

Why have you offered CGC no other options besides buying the comic from you? Especially when your stated price is preposterously inflated well beyond market value? You still haven't justified your estimated value of $10,000 -- where are you getting that?

 

If this copy is in contention with CGC and there's a possibility they might purchase it, then why are you offering it up for sale to anybody on eBay?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALL-STAR-COMICS-8-1941-FIRST-WONDER-WOMAN-JERRY-BAILS-/310216490736?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483a57fef0

 

Bob, with all due respect, are you serious about your case against CGC?

[Wayne-Tec]

 

My contention has been and will remain that CGC's insurance company

should compensate Jerry's widow for the damage CGC person(s)

did to All Star #7 and #8. They can do whatever they want to after purchasing.

They pulled the rug out from underneath these copies of All Star #7 and #8.

 

Why have you offered CGC no other options besides buying the comic from you? Especially when your stated price is preposterously inflated well beyond market value? You still haven't justified your estimated value of $10,000 -- where are you getting that?

 

If this copy is in contention with CGC and there's a possibility they might purchase it, then why are you offering it up for sale to anybody on eBay?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALL-STAR-COMICS-8-1941-FIRST-WONDER-WOMAN-JERRY-BAILS-/310216490736?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483a57fef0

 

Bob, with all due respect, are you serious about your case against CGC?

 

I'm confused too.

 

You state it to be a 5.0 but imply it would grade-out as the highest in existence had it not been for the issues in question? I'm not a pro-grader but does the defect in question knock it down from a 9.2 to a 5.0?

 

I'm not trying to gang up on you but there appears to be a number of details, such as the ones mentioned above, that have yet to be explained in detail.

[Doohickamabob]

Previous sales of All Star #8:

 

2009: *Restored* CGC 8.5 -- $2,868

2009: *Restored* CGC 8.5 -- $3,884

2009: *Restored* CGC 1.0 -- $1,076

2009: *Restored* CGC 4.0 -- $3,107

2008: *Restored* CGC 9.0 -- $8,366

2006: CGC 7.5 -- $17,925

2006: CGC 4.5 -- $3,107

2006: CGC 2.5 -- $2,629

2005: Raw 2.0 -- $2,300

2005: CGC 7.5 -- $17,825

2005: CGC 5.0 -- $6,613

2004: CGC 5.5 -- $5,175

2004: CGC 5.5 -- $6,038

2003: CGC 4.5 -- $5,750

2003: CGC 6.5 -- $6,600

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Whatever anyone else says, Bob, you are a character. No one can take that away from you.

[sacentaur]

Accidents can happen...

 

No kidding - look at at the picture of the fellow doing one-armed Twister with the books spread all over the place.

 

Sorry Bob, but you're barking up the wrong tree pal...

[rockman2008]

Accidents can happen...

 

No kidding - look at at the picture of the fellow doing one-armed Twister with the books spread all over the place.

 

Yeah, who is that fellow? Haven't we seen enough of his naked butt from NYPD Blue?

[Forbush-Man]

It' was already a restored copy, just have the staple pop repaired. Take the offer CGC gave you and send the book in for repair.

 

One thing: If this is such a big deal, why isn't the staple pop even mentioned in the ebay auction?

[Doohickamabob]

One thing: If this is such a big deal, why isn't the staple pop even mentioned in the ebay auction?

 

Here is what it says on his live eBay listing:

 

"ALL STAR COMICS #8. 5.0 VGF 1941

 

PRIME PERIOD PIECE, GREAT EYE APPEAL, SHARP CORNERS, can send a larger scans, just ask! / COVER AND Center Folds Firmly Attached to Book as seen on the large size scans we post; SHARP LIGHT REFLECTIVITY COVER GLOSS AS THIS IS A WONDERFUL CONDITION COPY; OFF-WHITE PAPER

 

AT BOTTOM STAPLE LONG AGO SOME ONE PLACED A SMALL DAB OF GLUE AND A SMALL AMOUNT OF COLOR TOUCH RIGHT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE STAPLE OTHERWISE WOULD GRADE OUT TO THE BEST COPY IN THE WORLD, SO THE CONSENSUS WENT FROM THOSE WHO HAVE LOOKED AT THIS UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL."

[ciorac]

Accidents can happen...

 

No kidding - look at at the picture of the fellow doing one-armed Twister with the books spread all over the place.

 

Yeah, who is that fellow? Haven't we seen enough of his naked butt from NYPD Blue?

 

That is none other than Mark Edmonds, one of the premier Superman collectors in the world.

[thedude]

Accidents can happen...

 

No kidding - look at at the picture of the fellow doing one-armed Twister with the books spread all over the place.

 

Yeah, who is that fellow? Haven't we seen enough of his naked butt from NYPD Blue?

 

That is none other than Mark Edmonds, one of the premier Superman collectors in the world.

 

yep, talked to him a few years ago in Chicago, he's got everything.

[Point Five]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ALL-STAR-COMICS-8-1941-FIRST-WONDER-WOMAN-JERRY-BAILS-/310216490736?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item483a57fef0

Auction shows the 'before' picture...

 

I do think Bob's new pics prove his case better than before, though. I still think Jeff/Theagenes had the right idea -- ask CGC to help out with regards to the resto/conservation necessary to fix the staple issue. Seems like it could be a win-win solution.

 

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

Taking a break from working at my vintage comics biz, I do want to attempt to clarify a few things, if that is possible. I also appreciate the posts here are (mostly) of a serious nature

 

1) there were extensive communication attempts with CGC prior to posting here. Those posts I made regarding this concept in the previous Comics & Life thread are mostly lost in the "fun" the peanut gallery was thinking they were having.

 

2) I never said it was in the camp for being highest graded, those were words other(s) used when looking at the pics in the original Jerry's All Stars (long) thread which garnered some 10,000+ hits so far according to the CGC record counter, back whenI was scanning and posting all sorts of fun stuff from Jerry Bails archive of comics research once the All Star run itself as well as the original art he had left were posted.

 

3) All the All Stars pictured in the last few pics where carefully placed into Golden Age Mylar #2 (with flaps) along with two Gold backer boards for very adequate protection against any sort of potential damage. They were very carefully placed where they were as you seem them just to obtain a few pics for posterity for our own personal fun and edification

 

4) Yes, the All Star #8 is listed in eBay store. It has received offers in the $5K range. No attempt has been made to sell it until this gets resolved. It be "evidence"

 

Query was made, "From what I've gathered, you feel that CGC popped the lower staple on the All-Star #8 while other people have felt (or implied) that the staple was glued down and was popped when the glue came loose; is that correct?

 

5) On the surface of it all, yes, a CGC receiver person popped the lower staple. Should be evident re my position by looking at the new pic(s) that some one there at CGC HQ accidently opened it too forcefully, creating a tear as well coming out from the staple.

 

It has been implied that it simply fell off is what some say happened. That did not occur.

 

The All Stars came out of Jerry & Jean's house in the Detroit area where they lived for many decades being handled very carefully only by Jerry and/or Jean Bails

 

Straight to my warehouse, which you see a portion of my processing area of my (former) warehouse. Moved into a larger flat warehouse in April.

 

Other than:

 

A) myself,

 

B) Mark Edmonds who you see in a pic (a long time friend and collector with complete runs of Action, Superman, World's Finest, etc. he bought the Tom Reilly Superman #3 and #4 from me in 1973 as well as the Edmond Hamilton Superman #1 from Jerry Bails in in 1971 for $300)

 

C) and one other prominent collector in the area (who owns Action 1, Tec 27, MC #1, Whiz 2 (#1), and many other "big" books), who also very carefully handled the All Stars,

 

no one even saw these books around here, nor knew I had them here until I flew down to Florida shortly thereafter and hand delivered them to CGC HQ where Steve Borock, Mark Haspel, and West Stephens looked at many of them in a CGC conference room with me. Mark and West were remarking taht day re some of the pedigree concepts on some of them. the world was looking good then. I then left them in their hands to take care of, heading up to Wash DC to the Library of Congress to conduct more research towards the Victorian and Platinum sections of Overstreet Price Guide which I have been expanding since 1997.

 

They were returned a couple months later at the 2007 San Diego Comicon by Steve B

 

These were the first comic books I have ever submitted to CGC for "certification" re their grading. Prior to that, I was doing my own thing, doing my comics research, offering comic books mainly to those who collect and study what is between the covers, so to speak.

 

6) The staple pop is not mentioned in the ebay advert when I first put it up some time ago mainly because CGC did not mention the staple popped on their label when i first got it back. I have not been trying to sell it. Merely listing it earlier to keep this scenario alive while I was dealing with surgeries, healing, etc

 

I must hasten to mention, as I think it is not as of yet, that when one looks at the bottom staple from the inside back cover, the book is still attached. This damage is all from the front. From being opened with too much accidental force. And this happened after I left the All Stars in CGC's care.

 

Said forceful opening, which also caused a tear to develop at the lower end of the bottom staple into the front cover as seen in the close up new pic, did not happen simply because the staple popped all by itself

 

7) To my knowledge, CGC has never offered to do anything to myself nor Jean Bails to rectify this, much less have some one like Matt Nelson attempt to repair what happened at their HQ building

 

8) Will be back later, am not sure I replied to and/or covered all the bases mentioned as of yet. Have to get back to work albeit very slow these days. Hopefully this thread remains a serious discussion as that is all I have ever intended. Thanks for reading thus far.

 

Robert Beerbohm 402 459 1709

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[Bronty]

with all due respect. you had a restored book before. you have a restored book now. even if one took your word as gospel (which I can't), even so the value differential between restored (no staple pop) and restored (staple pop) would be minor to say the least. The crusade/vendetta is tiresome. get the book repaired by cgc and move on. The book will be worth then what is was worth before. If fixed appropriately Jerry's estate will have incurred no loss.

[BLBcomics-migration]

The term "vendetta" is very much misused here, with all due respect.

 

CGC damaged both the books mentioned and they have never made a move to make this "right"

 

If CGC had treated this honorably from the git-go, I would have "moved on" a long long time ago

 

I actually have a lot more important things on my plate I am dealing with

[Aman619]

there hasnt been 10K worth of damage. the book BEFORE CGC was worth far less than 10K. Just get it fixed and sell it. Those are your two only realistic options. Get on with your life and get back to the Victorian research! We're on pins and needles for new discoveries.