What book started the Bronze Age of Comics???? 2 2

[sullypython]

One of the most perplexing questions in the industry (and for me personally). I would be very curious to hear your choices and your reasoning behind it. I certainly think it would be beneficial to have an "official" answer like the Golden Age (Action Comics 1) and the Silver Age (Showcase 4).

[supapimp]

IMHO...i would have to say Giant-Size X-Men # 1, after that book was released Spectacular Spider-Man # 1 followed. comic books were once again selling strong after the horror comic expierence.

[comicinvestor-migration]

First off, a Comic Age is usually defined as a period where new characters and concepts are introduced, while re-working existing ones in new ways or into new titles.

 

My pick for start of the Marvel Bronze Age would be Marvel's Anniversary 25-cent Giants in '71. Even Stan stated in his Bullpen comments that this was a new era for Marvel, blah, blah, blah.

 

So my pick would be either Marvel Feature #1 or Marvel Spotlight #2. One was the first app. of the Defenders and the other was the first appearance of Werewolf.

 

Marvel Spotlight #2 is not important on its own, but the comic did start the wave of new 70's characters/books like:

 

Ghost Rider, Hero For Hire, Dracula, Iron Fist, Shang Chi, and a ton of other characters, and even lamers like Brother Voodoo, The Golem and Living Mummy.

 

Marvel Feature really started Marvel on the path to re-working existing characters in new ways or titles, such as:

 

New X-Men, Marvel Team-up, Defenders, Champions, Starlin's New Captain Marvel and Warlock, etc.

 

Even the titles at that time changed slightly, as DD #81 was the first real team-up of him and the Black Widow, and ASM #102 was right in the middle of the horror-filled Six-Armed Spidey and Morbius the Vampire saga.

 

Later on, we were also greeted to two of the most popular characters ever, Wolverine and the Punisher, not to mention an unprecedented double-death of Gwen Stacy and the Green Goblin.

 

I've looked at it six ways from Sunday and those 25-cent Anniversary Giants really set off a wave of new characters, books, re-works, and ideas that wasn't seen at Marvel since the start of their Silver Age. There's no question in my mind that's where it started, but the choice of "first book" is open to some interpretation.

[Guest]

I would go Green Lantern 76. The time is about right the importance of that series and Adams constribution to the medium can't be overstated. Comics changed around that time. The non-code drug issues were within that same year, marvel started killing people a couple of years later...

 

By the way, I've got an incredibly detailed argument for why Daredevil 168 is the first "modern" book, in case anyone is wondering....

[g-man]

i would say it is CONAN #1. October 1970. Barry Smith, one of the most important artists of the bronze age. His work in Conan and Avengers is great. Love teh cover to Avengers #100. One of the best.

[fantastic_four]

Action Comics 1 introduced superheroes to the world, and Superman is still popular today.

 

Showcase 4 revamped the superhero concept, and Flash is still popular today.

 

I don't get the people who say Conan started the Bronze age. How did Conan influence other comics? There weren't any other popular prehistoric barbarian characters besides Conan, and he's also been cancelled for a long time now.

 

Green Lantern 76 or Giant-Size X-Men 1 are the most likely candidates. Giant-Size X-Men 1 has had the biggest impact on comics ever since it came out, so I'd have to pick it over GL 76. Of course, I'd pick Fantastic Four 1 over Showcase 4, also, based upon the greater impact it and Lee/Kirby have had.

[comicinvestor-migration]

What's important is to not look at "Comic Ages" with 20-20 hindsight. Of course The New X-Men is the recognized as the most important Bronze Age book... today.

 

I don't think Showcase 4 is the most important Silver Age book by a longshot (both FF#1 and B&B 28 are much bigger infuences) but it was the first book to start the trend towards new characters, re-introduced old characters, and totally new concepts.

 

After that initial foray, a steamroller effect takes place, and these new books and characters proliferate and potentially change the way the whole comic market works. Check out the Marvel and DC Silver Age and you'll see a constant influx of new and old characters, new team books, and a quantum shift in the business.

 

The 20-20 hindsight angle is important to keep in mind, as when the Bronze Age was in full gear, who wasn't out there buying Iron Fist, Defenders, Master of Kung Fu, Marvel Team-up and the like. New X-Men was a very poor seller early on and in addition to being released well after other 1970's comics, it certainly wasn't a leader in the new wave of Bronze books. It may be recognized as the most important Bronze book now, but it certainly wasn't then, and it didn't create an rapid influx of new comics and characters.

 

That was then, and this is now, and it's tough to look for Bronze Age starting points through 2002 glasses. Looking back to those days, I remember Marvel Team-Up, Defenders, Iron Fist, Ghost Rider and some others as being the real drivers to my "New Bronze Age" comic buying habits. I picked up the newer issues, while making sure to put those lame- X-Men reprints back on the shelf.

[underthebigw]

 

There's no way to say that X-men GS1 is the start of the Bronze age--to say this ignores the 5 years of great Bronze age books that preceded them, books that are definitely not part of the SA. For example, Marvel Team-Up, Marvel Premiere, Marvel Two-In-One, Plop, Kamandi, Kirby's DC books, all the b&w mags, etc. To me the Bronze age is epitomized by a willingness to experiment with numerous genres, many of which were new (martial arts titles) or unique takes on previously worn out genres (Bunny).

 

My first impulse was to say GL/GA 76, but the more I thought about it, these books really seemed to have more in common with SA books. While different and new, the O'neill/Adams series seems more like the culmination of all of Adam's DC work from the 1960's.

 

So, I have to say Conan 1. As much as I have trouble including any .15 cent book in the Bronze age (just because most covers were still stylistically linked to the 1960's), there's no doubt that this signaled a willingness to experiment and go out on a limb to find new audiences.

 

Great thread.

[aardvark88]

I think Conan 1 helped start the bronze age. 1st time in a long time that heroes did NOT wear colorful spandex. Its success lead to King Kull comic & mag, Red Sonja, Solomon Kane, Savage Sword mag w/c lasted over 235 issues. Savage Tales 1 (1971) mag w/ its beheading cvr may have put the seed into creator's head's that violence is possible in comics. If u STRETCH this theory, may have lead Marvel to greenlight Punisher in ASM 129. All this "hero" does is assassinate or skewer ppl (like F Miller's Wolverine mini-series). Just my opinion.

[FlyingDonut]

Amazing Spider-Man 121 - the end of "innocence" in comics. I can't go with the Conan/Marvel Spotlight concepts because they didn't really go anywhere. The beginning of the Bronze Age was the change of an era.

[comicinvestor-migration]

I've been reading some of the old Bullpen Bulletins (which incidentally give excellent historical perspective) and the whole "New Age" Marvel phenomenon centered around their new "Try Out" series, which would hopefully spin off to individual series in their own right, along with new books with existing characters:

 

Marvel Premiere (New Age Warlock, Dr. Strange, Iron Fist)

Marvel Spotlight (Werewolf, Ghost Rider, Son of Satan)

Marvel Feature (Defenders)

Astonishing Tales (Ka-Zar)

Amazing Adventures (Inhumans)

 

Other issues that were highlighted as "New Age" were Dracula, Marvel Team-Up, Creatures on the Loose, Monsters on the Prowl (Kull), Hero for Hire (Luke Cage), Red Wolf, and others. It seemed as if Marvel was trotting out a new character/book or two each and every month.

 

Stan Lee was also promoting the fact that the "Marvel Age of Comics" slogan was shifting to "Marvel's on the Move Again" with "wild and whacky ideas" far removed from "the early days when Marvel was just a'borning".

 

Interesting stuff, and regardless of our thoughts today, Marvel definitely had their Bronze Age fired up around the Try-Out books as the starting point for their new age.

 

On another note, I gotta stop reading that stuff! It was before my time, but it still makes you nostalgic for the true days of fandom and the real innocence present in the pages. Hell, Stan apologized 50 times for trying to raise cover prices from 15-cents to 25-cents, and then another 20 times for the eventual price hike to 20-cents.

[MikeS]

Definitely Giant Size X-Men #1 started the Bronze Age. I would say that there was an in between age that occurred between the end of the Silver Age and the start of the Bronze. Kind of a transition time when Marvel Team-Up etc. came out. Sort of like the "Atomic" age that people sometimes refer to about the comics in the 50s between the Golden and Silver ages. Good article in CBG 1497 by "Mr. Silver Age" that pretty much talks about this.

[comicinvestor-migration]

I think Amazing Spider-man 121-122 was the apex of the Bronze Age, but no way it started the whole thing. That's 20-20 hindsight at work, as this issue came out well after the Bronze Age was in full swing.

 

Unless Stan Lee had a time machine, I doubt that ASM 121-122 was the trigger for the mass introduction of new Bronze Age comics.

 

I think there's only 2 valid options, for Marvel at least:

 

Conan

Marvel Try-Outs

 

Either one has evidence to back it up as the catalyst for the Bronze Age Boom at Marvel Comics, and either works in the timeline.

[comicinvestor-migration]

"I would say that there was an in between age that occurred between the end of the Silver Age and the start of the Bronze. Kind of a transition time when Marvel Team-Up etc. came out."

 

Okay, let's go with this. What then, were the major Bronze Age debuts that followed on the heels, and were directly influenced, by the release of Giant-Size X-Men?

 

If you want to cut out Defenders, Iron Fist, Dracula, Wolverine, Punisher, Werewolf, Ghost Rider, Luke Cage, Kull, Son of Satan, Man-Thing, Marvel Team-Up, Marvel Two-in-One, Brother Voodoo, Living Mummy, The Cat, Man-Wolf, New Age Warlock, Starlin's Captain Marvel, Thanos, Howard the Duck, and the host of other pre-1975 characters and books from your Official Bronze Age, what do you have left?

 

Micronauts, Battlestar Galactica, Nova and Ms. Marvel?

 

[supapimp]

MikeS,

 

good catch on the ask Mr. Silver Age on the CBG 1497 article, i couldn't flip through my CBG mags fast enough. As mentioned in the artilce it reads "Giant Size X-Men # 1 began the Bronze Age, serving as a catalyst for more super-hero comics from Marvel and DC both."

 

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

Yeah, I'm not saying who's right or wrong, but if Giant Size X-Men started off the Bronze Age, then I am definitely a collector of that "tweener period" (let's call it Not-Bronze Age), and a large segment of supposed "Bronze Age Collectors" are the same way.

 

Some of my favorite Not-Bronze Age comics:

 

Amazing Spider-man 129

Incredible Hulk 181

Amazing Spider-man 121, 122

Marvel Team-up 1

Marvel Two-in-One 1

Iron Man 55

Marvel Premiere 15

Marvel Spotlight 2 and 5

Ghost Rider 1

Amazing Adventures 11

House of Secrets 92

Green Lantern/Green Arrow 76

Hero for Hire 1

Marvel Feature and Defenders 1

Defenders 4 and 10

Avengers 112

Captain Marvel 25-33

 

I personally think the Not-Bronze Age books are far more collectible and inherently valuable than the Bronze Age, and looking back the only Bronze Age books that I collect are X-Men and Miller's Daredevil.

 

Not-Bronze Age rulezzz!!! Bronze Age suckezzzz!!!

 

[drbanner]

CBG also published an article stating that price spreads between G-F-NM should DECREASE!!

 

I'm with CI on this one, and must say that the idea that Giant Size X-men 1 started the Bronze Age is new to me. The traditional candidates are Green Lantern 76, Conan 1, Weird War Tales 1, House of Secrets 92, MTU 1 and so forth... The 25-cent Giant theory is supported by the fact that they were published right between Marvel's jump from 15-cent covers to 20-cent covers, although there isn't really a single, age-defining book in the lot. I've always felt that 15-cent cover books were tweeners, but 20-cent books were undoubtedly Bronze Age.

 

There may be no consensus #1 Bronze Age book, but just about every list I've seen of the "top 10" Bronze Age books is comprised of pre-1975 comics, except for Giant Size X-men 1 and X-men 94.

[underthebigw]

 

 

 

If you want to cut out Defenders, Iron Fist, Dracula, Wolverine, Punisher, Werewolf, Ghost Rider, Luke Cage, Kull, Son of Satan, Man-Thing, Marvel Team-Up, Marvel Two-in-One, Brother Voodoo, Living Mummy, The Cat, Man-Wolf, New Age Warlock, Starlin's Captain Marvel, Thanos, Howard the Duck, and the host of other pre-1975 characters and books from your Official Bronze Age, what do you have left?

 

Micronauts, Battlestar Galactica, Nova and Ms. Marvel?

 

That's the most succinct argument I've ever seen on this point. GS X-men 1 is smack dab in the middle of the bronze age. It may epitomize this period more than any other books, and the new team may be the highpoint of the era (at least for Marvel), but there's too many other books that ran throughout the entire period and, especially at the time, would have been more focused on than X-men.

 

As for those who say Conan wasn't that influential, you either weren't reading comics at that time or just have poor memories. Every time you turned your head, there was another Conan knock-off in another title, as a supporting character, back-up story etc. Without Conan (and I'm not a Conan fan, btw) and the character's 3 titles, there would likely be no Kull, Slayer, Howard the Duck, etc. Conan proved that not every main character had to be wearing long-johns and that fantasy, be it sword or sorcery or otherwise, and ATYPICAL heroes who weren't all good and noble (including the Punisher, Wolverine, Dracula, Werewolf by Night, Luke Cage, Ghost Rider, Son of Satan) and were motivated by self-interest could sell. This is to me the most essential difference between Conan and what preceeded it.

 

Paul

[comicinvestor-migration]

"There may be no consensus #1 Bronze Age book"

 

I'm thinking that is probably closer to the truth than anything. I feel the Bronze Age was started by change, a new direction, myriad new titles and characters coming fast and furious, and a new outlook on comics.

 

I'm beginning to feel that there is no definitive single book that sums up the start of the Bronze Age, but more a cumulative effect of the above, which incidentally was also what defined the Silver Age.

 

The 25-cent Giants were produced for Marvel's 10th Anniversary, really started the New Age of Marvel Comics (only printing and art delays kept all the Try-Out Giants from appearing concurrently) and is consistent with everything a Golden, Silver or Bronze Age shift is supposed to represent.

 

Plus, it makes it easier on collectors, as 15-cents = Silver and 20-cents = Bronze.

 

If you look at Marvel Comics before and after their 10th Anniversary, things really changed and did so very fast. Horror titles proliferated, new Team books emerged, new superheroes burst on the scene, older heroes were re-worked, anti-heroes like Wolverine and Punisher emrged, Marvel killed off twomain characters in the span of two issues, and the only reason we don't have a "Definitive Bronze Age Book" is because while many were hugely popular for their time, are no longer with us. Back then, they were the cat's meow and really drove the industry forward.

 

Now we look back with views tainted by the Modern Age and tactfully forget what comics we actually bought back then. The big sellers then are not the big sellers now.

 

Giant Size X-Men #1, along with X-Men 94-100 or so, were horrible sellers and didn't exactly set the industry on fire. In fact, the only early New X-Men issues I have were bought from those "X Comics for $1" reseller packs that always had the dredges of the low-selling books in them. A combination of John Byrne, Wolverine and excellent timing was what made that book successful and it took many years to get to that point.

[comicinvestor-migration]

Actually, I think of Conan the same way many view the old Dr. Droom vs. FF #1 argument over which was really the first Silver Age Marvel.

 

Dr. Droom was undoubtedly first and gave Marvel an idea that super-heroes could sell, but it was FF that provided the catalyst for the rapid new title and character growth at Marvel.

 

I think Conan was an important book, that did prove some "hero misconceptions" quite false, but it just didn't provide the immediate impetus for Marvel to get off their butts and follow that up more and more new comics and characters.

 

The Big Three of Marvel Feature, Marvel Spotlight and Marvel Premiere did this, and even these titles launched a host of new and very popular characters.

 

Again, just my 2-cents.