What book started the Bronze Age of Comics???? 2 2

[greggy]

Yes, you impending fatherhood has made you bland and unspectacular! You might as well end it now!

[comicinvestor-migration]

CI, he's got his ear's plugged, and if your not on his bandwagon then your not intelligent to commincate on this debate.

 

Just remember that my "bandwagon" includes virtually any major comic event from 1970 to 1972 or so. That is only logical, given that all of the important Bronze Age characters had appeared during (or started appearing soon after) that period.

 

I am only interested in the era, since without a time machine, any later book would be exempt from the discussion just based on the laws of physics.

 

You and your Mr Silver Age cronies state without a doubt that one and only one book started the Bronze Age: Giant Size X-men #1. It is unwavering, there is no room for debate, and you take a revisionist and highly illogical stance that a late-1975 comics influenced books and characters that appeared years before.

 

I only care about the prospects of a temporal anomaly caused by Len Wein and Dave Cockrum time-sliding back to 1970 with their copy of GS X-Men #1 from 1975 and changing the entire Bronze Age from that point on.

[PovertyRow]

>> it's easy to jump on the bandwagon, but if you have no input in the debate, then your cause is irrevalant.<<

 

I have already offered input into the "debate" several times. If you really want to debate about this, address the points. Junior high school tactics just lessen your credibility.

 

So I will ask you straight out: Why do you think that, because Conan, Tomb of Dracula, Werewolf by Night etc are no longer published, they had nothing to do with the Bronze Age? The argument just doesn't make sense to me.

[Darthdiesel]

I'll always be your DADDY, g - don't you forget it!

[supapimp]

re-read my signature again, if you can't figure it out, then it's not my "Junior high school tactics just lessen your credibility" fault your IQ isn't on the radar. your a network administrator, im sure your intellegent to read between the lines. or do you need CI to hold your hand? lessen my credibility...whatever! you have your opinions and i have mine, but please don't start the name calling.....and you say i have junior high school tactics?

[PovertyRow]

Regarding CI - don't know him. Have agreed to a few points he has made. Have disagreed with others. Period. Do not fit me into a clique because I happen to disagree with you..

 

Your tagline, as I read it between the lines, every other line, every other word, backwards and upside down, IMPLIES that because these are dead characters they are not part of the Bronze Age. Unless I am misinterpreting your statement "never got started, other so called "bronze age" title still in current running, dead...nuff said ". The nuff said simply is not enough said.

 

I still want to know why the death of a group of characters negates their either being part of an age or the start of an age. That seems to be the core of your tagline. Or are you saying something else?

[comicinvestor-migration]

Pimpy, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that any new Marvel Bronze Age books stood the test of time to 2003. Honestly, I can't think of a single one, as every popular Marvel Comic today had its start in the Silver Age.

 

Remember, GS X-Men was not a new concept. It was part of an ongoing series started with X-Men 1, and was basically a revamp of the member list, still headed by Professor X, while including two (Cyclops and Marvel Girl) from the old team. Creating new member lists or revamping an existing series is a long tradition at Marvel and happens eventually for each team book (like X-Factor 71 for example).

 

The truly new and innovative Marvel Bronze Age books had their time in the limelight and then faded out in the late-80's early 90's. The only thing that remained was retreaded Silver Age concepts that somehow are part of our collective consciousness and appeal greatly to the adult reader.

 

To equate current popularity with an Age is to really say there was no Bronze Age. plus, Showcase is long gone (so we need a new Silver Age start) and if Action Comics ever goes down, we'd need a new one there too.

 

Fortunately, the present does not change the past my good sir.

[Zonker]

Let me address the argument summarized by your sig:

 

Superman (Golden), Flash (Silver) continue to the present day. The New X-Men continue to the present day in a big way, so Giant Size X-Men #1 belongs as the beginning of the Bronze Age. Other claims to the beginning of the Bronze Age have died out in the intervening years.

 

True enough, but my argument for Detective 395 as the beginning of the B.A. lets me point out that what Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams did in re-vamping The Batman in this book dated January 1970 (powerfully symbolic date, that), survives in a big way today. Batman is never going back to the Adam West days after O'Neil/Adams. It was these stories that paved the way for Englehart/Rogers and Frank Miller's later takes on The Batman. Moreover, this was the beginning of the more mature, revisionist approach to super-heroes that soon led to GL/GA and its many imitators. The Bronze Age was pitched to an older audience (say 15,16 and above), just as Stan Lee's Marvel Silver Age was geared to a slightly older audience (say 13,14) than its earlier rivals.

 

Without Detective 395 there would have been no Dark Knight Returns, no Batman movie. It is unlikely there would have been the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA. Gil Kane almost was assigned GL/GA, and while I love Kane's art it is unlikely that book would have had the same impact without Neal Adams flashy graphic approach. There certainly would have been Conan, and Kirby's 4th World, but without The Batman and GL/GA making such a big splash in the early 70's it is doubtful how far the experimental approach would have gone into the mainstream Marvel and DC super-heroes of the period.

 

Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams began the Bronze Age.

 

Cheers,

Z.

[drbanner]

What's up Zonker?

 

I'm hearin' ya on the argument that Adams/O'Neil team were the catalyst for the Bronze Age. Adams started working at DC in the middle of the Silver Age, and up until about late 1968 his work was constrained to fit the mold of the books of the time, but really, starting with his work on Strange Adventures, he began breaking the mold and doing his own, revolutionary thing. Both Deadman and Batman became what could be classified as anti-hero, darker characters that seem to be the concensus on this thread of what the Bronze Age was about.

 

Neal Adams also changed the way the industry worked behind-the-scenes - both in advocating creators/artists rights and in the way the books were made (specifically, the printing/coloring process DC started using). He was a revolutionary at the start of the revolution. In addition, Adams' influence resulted in changing the popluar artistic style from cartoonish (Kirby, Ditko) to the more photo-realisistic/highly detailed style seen throughout the Bronze Age (Smith, Byrne, Perez...).

 

I'm afraid though, that Detective 395 is too much of a stand-alone book to qualify. On the other hand, GL 76 is a recognized Key that was the beginning of a solid 2-year run by the Dynamic Duo. A DC book, GL 76, is also supported by the fact that DC starting putting out the anti-hero, darker, horror themed, non-superhero characters, monster-centered books a good year or two before Marvel FOLLOWED suit.

 

In a nutshell, it looks like we're down to GL 76 (great choice), Conan 1 (solid choice), or Giant Size X-men 1 (whatever!!). Who's gonna start a new thread with a Poll?

[comicinvestor-migration]

In a nutshell, it looks like we're down to GL 76 (great choice), Conan 1 (solid choice), or Giant Size X-men 1 (whatever!!).

 

I think this is a case similar to the Showcase 4/FF 1 situation in the Silver Age, where GL 76 definitely provided the push for DC, while Conan was the big guy for moving Marvel down the anti-hero Bronze road. Those are the two books I see starting both companies towards the true Bronze Age trends of 1970-1976 or so.

 

I've offered enough iron-clad, irrefutable, "not unless Len Wein and Dave Cockrum owned a time machine" logic against Giant Size X-Men, so I'll leave that alone for now.

[Zonker]

Thanks for the reply Dr. Banner.

 

Reasonable people can of course differ on this one. I like the concept of later books serving to confirm earlier milestones. Thus, Showcase 4 is confirmed by Brave&Bold 28 (first JLA), whose cover directly leads to FF #1 and Marvel's entry into the Silver Age. I'll still hold out for the progression from Detective 395 to GL/GA #76 to Conan #1 as the confirming trend for the Bronze Age. (Remember what looked like a standalone Showcase #4 was immediately followed up by... Showcase #5 featuring the Manhunters [?]...).

 

Later I'll re-read what Roy Thomas has said about the origins of the Conan Marvel franchise (in the Tempo paperbacks) and Denny on GL/GA. (in various tpb's). Maybe they can shed some light one way or another.

 

Cheers,

Z.

[Kevin Boyd]

Actually I would call Detective 395 a precursor of the Bronze Age.

 

Comparable to the issue of Detective (I forget the number) in which the Martian Manhunter made his appearance. The issue was published prior to the publication of Showcase 4, and MM is definitely a Silver Age hero.

 

Kev

[Guest]

detective 225

[supapimp]

im not going to comment anymore on this thread, though your arguement is new to me. everybody and their mother seems to have their own opinion and that's great, as long as your not preachin ......let sleeping dogs lie! banner!!!GL/GA 76? that's silver baby sorry i couldn't refuse

[comicinvestor-migration]

According to you, every new books that isn't Nova or Ms. Marvel is Silver.

[sullypython]

Well the debate can be over now. I spoke with GOD last night and he told me "matter of factly" that the Bronze Age started with Conan #1. I admit I was pretty drunk at the time, but I know what I heard.

 

Let's all thank the man upstairs for clearing this matter up for us.

 

 

[comicinvestor-migration]

That's bizarre, since I had the exact same conversation last night, and he stated:

 

"Conan 1 be the start of the true Bronze Age, and let me smite any unwashed heathen who proclaimeth that Giant Size X-Men be the one!"

[PovertyRow]

Late last night a rustling was heard outside my window and a voice called down from above, intoning, "The Bronze Age works in mysterious ways."

[supapimp]

you get one smack at me, and you just used it....don't get me started. or it's JIHAD!

[comicinvestor-migration]

Late last night a rustling was heard outside my window and a voice called down from above, intoning, "The Bronze Age works in mysterious ways."

 

That was just Peeping Tom Pimpy hiding in the bushes.