What book started the Bronze Age of Comics???? 2 2

[FlComicFan]

Conan 1 gets my vote . Its the first new title/character not seen before in comics that made a impact on both what would be published later and artistically.After that if you read those old Stan Lee ramblings it seems Marvel and DC were cranking out experimental idead almost monthly man without even a tryout series first! Marvel finally getting their own newstand distributor after sharing till 1968 and being limited in the number of titles they could publish is the catalyst. Giant Size X-Men will likely end up being the key most valuable book of the era. I can remeber arguing with some DC fans whether House of Secrets 92 or GS 1 would be the first $1000 Bronze book. Too bad I've given up collecting Bronze for Gold Chet

[FlComicFan]

yep Weird War was a throwaway title till a few years ago. Conan 1 was widely collected. High valued and in demand right from its release and was a totally different from other books that were being put out on the stands at that point. Was it also Marvel first lproperty they licensed f(didnt create on their own)??

[FlComicFan]

Your basing the start of the Golden Age on the new breed of art which came out in that time frame. Why not Nick Fury 1 with Steranko he shook things up just as much as Adams did with GL 76 or Wrightsons horror books or Kaluta or any of the other new guys on the block who injected some life into comics as the Silver Age waned down. My vote stays with Conan 1 starting Marvels and GL 76 starting DC's silver age. Chet

[vic6string]

I'm with all those that say Conan #1. At the time, it was HUGE! Like a few people have said, this is the first time a hero didn't necessarily look or act like one. No real powers, no goodie-goodie attitude..sometimes he looked as bad as the villains. All of a sudden you didn't need a cape and tights, which led to alot of experimentation with non-hero characters and heroes without real superpowers. I think the experiment books like Spotlight and Premiere epitomized the Bronze age, but Conan kicked it off. My history goes like this:

 

Golden Age - Action #1

 

Silver Age - Showcase 4

 

Bronze Age - Conan 1

 

Modern age - Frank Miller's Dark Knight --- reality really kicks in and writing becomes the feature in comics. From here on out, adults can read them and not feel guilty.

 

Dark age - Wilcats #1 (or maybe Spawn, whichever came first) Marvel and DC were no longer the only game in town, gimmicks like special covers were all the rage, and books were mass produced and hoarded to the point were the hobby almost killed itself.

 

New Modern age - Ultimate Spidey #1 ... revamp entire Marvel Line starting with the premiere character and bring everything up to modern times... collectablility restored with low print runs... movies and things like "free comic day" and 20 cent covers bringing in new collectors.

 

[PovertyRow]

I tend to agree - what is your opinion on Atom Age?

[peterporker-migration]

*BUMP*

[shadroch]

To me it was not a matter of the Bronze Age starting as it was the Silver Age ending. The passing of the torch from Stan Lee to Roy Thomas, Marv Wolfman, Gerry Conway and the rest of the next Generation of writers formed the Start of the Bronze Age. To me Captain America 100 is Silver whereas Cap 110 with Steranko is Bronze. The Price increases from .12 to .15 to .20 are good benchmarks, and by the .25 giant books the bronze age is in total effect. So,to me, the early Steranko books, along with Neal Adams work on the Xmen are the prelude to the dawn of the Bronze Age.

[dblanchard-migration]

Arnold T wrote (quite a while ago, I'm afraid):

 

>> I think no matter what date, comic, and/or comics we note in the article for the start of the Bronze Age, I can probably say with no fear of contradiction that Giant-Size X-Men will NOT be one of them. 1975 is simply too late by any stretch of the imagination. <<

 

1975 is too late for what, exactly? I don't follow this logic. Was 1956 "too late" for the Silver Age to start?

 

The logic behind the ages of comics, if historical precedent has any bearing at all, suggests that if the Golden Age started with ACTION COMICS # 1 (first superhero), and the Silver Age started with SHOWCASE # 4 (first successful revival of Golden Age superheroes), then the Bronze Age -- by definition -- ought to also start with a launch or revival of superheroes.

 

For that reason, GIANT-SIZE X-MEN # 1 represents the most successful revival AND launch of superheroes in the 1970s, post-Silver Age era.

 

Frankly, I think what we should really be seeking is the proper designation for the interregnum period *between* the Silver Age and the Bronze Age. Some wag came up with Atom Age for the interregnum between Golden and Silver, and I'll toss out Weird Age as a moniker for that 1970-1975 period where superheroes took a backseat to lots of other stuff, much of fantasy/horror based.

 

Best,

Dave Blanchard

 

 

[joe_collector]

Not again, I thought all you guys were locked up in the psych ward.

 

A new Comic Age is easily identifiable by an event that lauches new ideas and characters. The Golden Age is self-apparent, but let's take the Silver.

 

The re-intro of The Flash led to more DC superheroes being re-introduced, which led to the Justice League, which led to the Fantastic Four, which led to Hulk, Spider-man, Avengers, etc.

 

The most important Silver Age books? Probably Spider-man (AF 15) and The Justice League (B&B 28), but it all started with Flash.

 

Now try the same thing with GS X-Men #1; what new and innovative characters sprung from that fountainhead? It's an important Bronze Age comic (al la Spider-man) but not even close to the first.

 

Be a chum and list your favorite Bronze Age characters and then consult the year they were introduced. Betcha a donut the vast majority pre-dated GS X-Men #1.

 

[ArnoldTBlumberg]

Your argument is certainly valid, and as we've sort of thrown open the door to discuss this whole topic with a feature in the new Price Guide before we announce the results in next year's Guide, everybody has a whole year to continue to provide feedback on what they think.

 

By "too late," I was unclear and I apologize. I just meant that based on a lot of discussions we've had about the shift in maturity and focus of comics around that period, the changes taking place at Marvel, the advent of the horror stuff, and tons of other factors, it just looks to us like a major shift had already begun well *before* the new X-Men thing came along, and that shift seems likelier as a dividing line for an Age.

 

But again, the fact that this is always fertile ground for discussion just proves that it isn't easy to define. So that's why we're hoping all these opinions get thrown at us as the year goes on.

 

Arnold

[supapimp]

CI, joe_collector, if that's what you want to go by now, i knew a bump in this thread would reveal you.....welcome back! well the daredevil movie bashing thread sort of gave you away too.

[dblanchard-migration]

Joe Collector wrote:

 

>> The re-intro of The Flash led to more DC superheroes being re-introduced, which led to the Justice League, which led to the Fantastic Four, which led to Hulk, Spider-man, Avengers, etc. <<

 

No argument there, except that I'd widen the scope a bit and mention that the Flash also led to ADVENTURES OF THE FLY and ADVENTURES OF THE JAGUAR and DOUBLE LIFE OF PRIVATE STRONG and Dr. Droom and all the rest of the stuff in between SHOWCASE # 4 and FANTASTIC FOUR # 1.

 

>> The most important Silver Age books? Probably Spider-man (AF 15) and The Justice League (B&B 28), but it all started with Flash.

 

Now try the same thing with GS X-Men #1; what new and innovative characters sprung from that fountainhead? It's an important Bronze Age comic (al la Spider-man) but not even close to the first. <<

 

Surely you jest. The late 1970s resurgence in interest in comic books that led to the proliferation of comic book shops carrying new comics and the whole direct market was largely due to the overwhelming popularity of the X-MEN, which drew fans to the shops like flies to butter every month -- everybody had to see what was going on in the latest issue of X-MEN. It was a phenomenon that, for reasons that defy logic, still continues to this day (although it's now ULTIMATE X-MEN that's getting most of the attention these days).

 

GS X-MEN not only spawned TONS of X-titles from Marvel, and copycat stuff from DC like ALL-STAR COMICS and NEW TEEN TITANS and OMEGA MEN, et al, but in a very real sense it also led to Pacific Comics and Eclipse Comics and First Comics and Capital Comics and Comico and Dark Horse and of course Image. You can draw a line from GS X-MEN # 1 to just about every superhero comic -- and just about every superhero comic book *publisher* -- since 1975. It's not always a straight line, just like it's not a straight line from SHOWCASE # 4 to HERBIE # 1, but that line is there, all the same.

 

>> Be a chum and list your favorite Bronze Age characters and then consult the year they were introduced. Betcha a donut the vast majority pre-dated GS X-Men #1. <<

 

Well, why don't we buy each other a donut, because I take your point but I wouldn't agree that characters who debuted before 1975 are Bronze Agers -- I'd call 'em Weird Agers. Anyway, my two favorites from those in-between years would be Swamp Thing and Jonah Hex. But my point has been all along that the years 1970-75 are mostly notable for characters who *weren't* superheroes, hence using the logic that coined the Golden and Silver Ages as eras predominated by superheroes, the Bronze Age logically would start with GS X-MEN # 1, and the in-between years we can just call the Weird Age (CONAN, SWAMP THING, WEIRD WESTERN, et al).

 

Dave Blanchard

[vic6string]

"The late 1970s resurgence in interest in comic books that led to the proliferation of comic book shops carrying new comics and the whole direct market was largely due to the overwhelming popularity of the X-MEN, which drew fans to the shops like flies to butter every month "

 

I love the X-men too, but at that time, they weren't even the hottest comic around. Spidey was still the king at the time, and X-men weren't nearly as hot as Star Wars or ROM. Take a look at any price guide or back issue catalog from around 1980 or so and compare back issue prices if you don't believe me.

[Zonker]

Dave, you state your case very well. While I still think the requirement that a "metal age" must necessarily be super-hero-centric is arbitrary, and I think you're climbing up-hill to reverse the common bronze-age terminology in use the last 20 years, I do want to salute your efforts.

 

I do kind of like the idea of the early 70s being an analog to the early 50s Atomic Age. Both had great genre diversity, and some of the finest non-super hero comics ever came out in those two periods.

 

"Weird Age" strikes me at first as an awkward name, but there are numerous examples of books with "Weird" in the title during this period:

 

1. Weird Western Tales, which you mentioned (Jonah Hex started here)

2. Weird War Tales (CBM once published an article claiming WWT #1 started the Bronze Age)

3. Weird Worlds (ERB stories, later Chaykin's Iron Wolf)

4. Weird Mystery Tales (so-so DC horror stories)

5. Adventure Comics was briefly renamed " Weird Adventure Comics" on the cover during the Aparo Spectre run.

6. later issues of Phantom Stranger have the heading "Follow me into Weird Worlds, for I am...the Phantom Stranger."

 

The above is very DC-centric, but then I recall that one of the most famous Bronze Age characters of all, Conan the Barbarian, was a comics revival of a character who first appeared in the pulp magazine called

 

7. Weird Tales!

 

So ya might be on to something after all.

Z.

[supapimp]

great debate this thread lives again

[joe_collector]

>> love the X-men too, but at that time, they weren't even the hottest comic around. Spidey was still the king at the time, and X-men weren't nearly as hot as Star Wars or ROM. Take a look at any price guide or back issue catalog from around 1980 or so and compare back issue prices if you don't believe me.

 

Thanks for the post, and I honestly don't understand where this "X-Men are popular now, so they must have been ultra-hot since 1975" mentality comes from. Must be something in the water.

[PovertyRow]

Joe - I have to wonder what tune your dancers are dancing to. I have tried humming a few tunes to the steps but no luck yet! Closest thing that works so far is YMCA (I was hoping Funky Town would - am a Towlie fan).

[dblanchard-migration]

vic6string wrote:

 

>> I love the X-men too, but at that time, they weren't even the hottest comic around. Spidey was still the king at the time, and X-men weren't nearly as hot as Star Wars or ROM. Take a look at any price guide or back issue catalog from around 1980 or so and compare back issue prices if you don't believe me. <<

 

Well, of course STAR WARS came two years after GS X-MEN # 1, and ROM about four years after.

 

I wasn't discussing contemporary back issue prices, though -- I was talking about what comics got people into the shops month after month after month (after year after year...) to buy the next issue. And not just to buy the current issue, but to buy it the very same day it came out. Sure, kids used to haunt drug stores and mom and pop stores back in the 1960s waiting for clerk to finally clip open that string binding copies of the next Spidey or Batman, but with the advent of the comics shops, now you didn't have to endure some surly drug store clerk's nasty looks while we waited patiently for him to finally stuff those comics on the spinner rack -- now we get surly comic shop owners' nasty looks instead .

 

Dave Blanchard

[joe_collector]

>>I wasn't discussing contemporary back issue prices, though -- I was talking about what comics got people into the shops month after month after month (after year after year...) to buy the next issue.

 

Well I feel quite safe in saying that it was Spider-man. His Amazing book was the best-seller during the 70's, and the guy headlined 4-5 different comics through the 70's and early-80's (ASM, PPSSM, MT, MTU, Web).

 

This phenomenon switched the to X-Men for the Modern Age, which heralded the growth and proliferance of X-based titles.

[dblanchard-migration]

Joe Collector wrote:

 

>> I honestly don't understand where this "X-Men are popular now, so they must have been ultra-hot since 1975" mentality comes from. Must be something in the water. <<

 

The X-MEN didn't actually get to be ultra-hot till towards the end of the Byrne/Austin era, several years deep into the run.

 

By way of analogy, it took more than two years for THE FLASH to get his own title after the SHOWCASE # 4 debut, and in fact THE FLASH was *never* DC's best-selling title. Your original question was, what influence did X-Men have that was comparable to the Flash's, which is what I attempted to address.

 

Another way of looking at that question might be: How many superhero comics were launched in the five years between CONAN # 1 and GS X-MEN # 1, how long did they last, and what similar titles were spun off from them? Now, ask the same question: How many superhero comics were launched in the years following GS X-MEN, how long did they last, and how many spin-offs resulted?

 

Dave Blanchard

 

Dave Blanchard