Ask Gator 13 13

[lou_fine]

38 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

42 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Took a closer look at the notes now. 

Since it also mentions a crease on the left center of cover and spine stress lines (both with absolutely no mention of color breaks this time), does this mean that the pressing job was done so bad that it even failed to remove the non-color stresses?  Or is it possible that the press job (if there was one done?) being improperly done might have even added in the non-color stress lines and wear where there were none before hand, instead of actually covering it up? 

I guess it's quite obvious I don't really know too much about pressing defects. 

Typically if it says "crease" without qualifier  it breaks color

That's interesting since it also mentions "light spine wear" and "wear on top right of back cover" that does "break color".

So, my assumption is that there must be both color breaking and non-color breaking stress lines/creases since it identifies them separately for the spine.

So, I was assuming it must either be a really bad press job on this book or possibly a book that has not been pressed yet. 

BTW:  Greatly appreciate your feedback here! 

Edited May 2, 2017 by lou_fine

[W16227]

19 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Took a closer look at the notes now. 

Since it also mentions a crease on the left center of cover and spine stress lines (both with absolutely no mention of color breaks this time), does this mean that the pressing job was done so bad that it even failed to remove the non-color stresses?  Or is it possible that the press job (if there was one done?) being improperly done might have even added in the non-color stress lines and wear where there were none before hand, instead of actually covering it up? 

I guess it's quite obvious I don't really know too much about pressing defects. 

 

So - pressing, even properly done by the experts, does not fix everything all at once.  Some books - have been repeatedly cracked, pressed, and resubmitted with grade bumps.  Most times, you would see a single grade bump ( or 2) with a decent press AND press-able defects.

Improperly pressed books - CGC has articles with examples of what a poor press can do -

https://www.cgccomics.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=3939&comic-book-pressing

Can a bad press make creases worse? - sure. If someone with poor technique uses too much pressure and bad humidification techniques, the ink may separate further for a wider or deeper crease. They can also smash staples ( the example link).  Many other bad press issues - can be resolved with a proper press.  The items they show in the articles - would most likely be listed in the graders notes and affect the grade.

Does this book look like a bad press job? - I would say no. Not really enough visual cues to tell. I am not a presser ( I use the pros for that when I slab books) - but I have gotten pretty good at spotting the defects. It is a great thing to find a book in the wild properly graded at a good deal --- but with awesome pressing potential.  The only area that is visible which might give more clues - are the staples.  The small circular stress areas ( more visible on the upper staple) - could be from pressure. On a modern book - this is an indicator of a press as the staples would generally be perfect. On a GA - could also be general wear. On a raw book- this would prompt me to examine the CF staple areas and interior areas of the book closer to see if there are more indicators of staple smashing. 

The thing is - unless you have images of the book from several angles with good light - it is almost impossible to tell if a book is a pressing candidate. Even harder to tell - if the book has been pressed at all. I would agree with Gator ( and he is pretty darn accurate on all things comics) - that any new books are best assumed to be pressed.

from the book you linked -- "crease on the left center of cover"  - this would be the defect that I would want to really see. I looked over the hi res images and cannot find it. That with the other notes - can really only tell you that it "might" be a candidate.  BUT --- being a candidate and being worth your time and $$ to get pressed are not really the same thing. You and GAtor - are way more versed in what GA sells for - but assuming the hammer price is ~ 500 and you feel that grade bumps would be worth $200 for one bump, a 9.2 would be an additional $500.  You will probably have to put $100 ish into the process....  You would have to be really sure that the book would get a 2 grade bump to make this worthwhile.

 

 

 

 

[Crowzilla]

Do you buy into the ESPN line that OSU is the preseason #1 post spring practice? and who do you have as your upcoming top 5?

 

[sacentaur]

rick, any estimates as to how high the Church copies of Star Comics 1/Star Ranger 2-6 will go in the current Heritage auction?

[G.A.tor]

23 minutes ago, Crowzilla said:

Do you buy into the ESPN line that OSU is the preseason #1 post spring practice? and who do you have as your upcoming top 5?

 

Unfortunately I think fsu will be in the top 5. Osu as well

Alabama , USC and penn state would round out my early top 5 (no particular order)

[G.A.tor]

38 minutes ago, sacentaur said:

rick, any estimates as to how high the Church copies of Star Comics 1/Star Ranger 2-6 will go in the current Heritage auction?

As high as I and underbidder take them?

truthfully, uncharted territory. There is a point I will back off since I have the Lost Valley copies. 

[Crowzilla]

32 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

Unfortunately I think fsu will be in the top 5. Osu as well

Shouldn't that make you happy?  Gators might have a chance to end the season (and a 4-game losing streak) by knocking off the #1 team in the country.

(though I probably just jinxed it by even suggesting that)

[sacentaur]

55 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

As high as I and underbidder take them?

55 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

truthfully, uncharted territory. There is a point I will back off since I have the Lost Valley copies. 

[lou_fine]

2 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

2 hours ago, sacentaur said:

rick, any estimates as to how high the Church copies of Star Comics 1/Star Ranger 2-6 will go in the current Heritage auction?

As high as I and underbidder take them?

truthfully, uncharted territory. There is a point I will back off since I have the Lost Valley copies. 

This beautiful Star Comics plus the other Church Star Rangers must all be coming out from a long held private collection. 

They are absolutely stunning and probably a once in many decades chance to pick them up. 

[Sqeggs]

4 hours ago, G.A.tor said:

As high as I and underbidder take them?

truthfully, uncharted territory. There is a point I will back off since I have the Lost Valley copies. 

[rainmaker]

there is a boy 11 in the next clink auction.  a book i have long been seeking with fresh colors. any input on an approximate hammer?  

not sure i like the staple situation given the grade but maybe its not as it appears.

many thanks  

[G.A.tor]

1 hour ago, rainmaker said:

there is a boy 11 in the next clink auction.  a book i have long been seeking with fresh colors. any input on an approximate hammer?  

not sure i like the staple situation given the grade but maybe its not as it appears.

many thanks  

should tip the 4 figure barrier

[lou_fine]

6 hours ago, W16227 said:

On 5/2/2017 at 1:43 PM, lou_fine said:

Took a closer look at the notes now. 

Since it also mentions a crease on the left center of cover and spine stress lines (both with absolutely no mention of color breaks this time), does this mean that the pressing job was done so bad that it even failed to remove the non-color stresses?  Or is it possible that the press job (if there was one done?) being improperly done might have even added in the non-color stress lines and wear where there were none before hand, instead of actually covering it up? 

I guess it's quite obvious I don't really know too much about pressing defects. 

 

Does this book look like a bad press job? - I would say no. Not really enough visual cues to tell. I am not a presser ( I use the pros for that when I slab books) - but I have gotten pretty good at spotting the defects. It is a great thing to find a book in the wild properly graded at a good deal --- but with awesome pressing potential.  The only area that is visible which might give more clues - are the staples.  The small circular stress areas ( more visible on the upper staple) - could be from pressure. On a modern book - this is an indicator of a press as the staples would generally be perfect. On a GA - could also be general wear. On a raw book- this would prompt me to examine the CF staple areas and interior areas of the book closer to see if there are more indicators of staple smashing. 

 

from the book you linked -- "crease on the left center of cover"  - this would be the defect that I would want to really see. I looked over the hi res images and cannot find it. That with the other notes - can really only tell you that it "might" be a candidate.  BUT --- being a candidate and being worth your time and $$ to get pressed are not really the same thing. You and GAtor - are way more versed in what GA sells for - but assuming the hammer price is ~ 500 and you feel that grade bumps would be worth $200 for one bump, a 9.2 would be an additional $500.  You will probably have to put $100 ish into the process....  You would have to be really sure that the book would get a 2 grade bump to make this worthwhile.

Wow, it looks like you have given this a lot of thought. 

Would definitely agree with your statement in bold above.  Personally, my preference is also for very tightly graded books, especially ones which have not yet had their potential maximized since I am much more of an old school type of collector who prefers so-called "untouched" books. 

Not really much of a Wonder Woman fan per se, but you can't go wrong with a tightly graded Church book that is sitting at only $385 or at a huge discount to its condition guide price.  Especially when there's a total of only 10 Church books in this entire CC auction on this go-round, with most of them priced quite a bit higher.  Did noticed there was also another Church copy in the upcoming Heritage auction, but with this one you can clearly see the color breaking creases on the spine even though it's been graded much higher at CGC 9.4:

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/superhero/sensation-comics-72-mile-high-pedigree-dc-1947-cgc-nm-94-white-pages/a/7163-92117.s?type=bidnotice-dailystatus#

Or maybe it's nothing more than just different grading time periods as the Heritage copy was graded at the start of 2014, while this earlier Church Sensation 39 in the CC auction was graded in September of 2016.  The summer and fall of 2016 definitely seems to have been an extremely tight grading time period for GA books, so who really knows. 

With your post here, you've certainly re-piqued my interest again, and might actually warrant a bit of checking out. 

I guess we'll see since there's still time.     

 

 

Edited May 3, 2017 by lou_fine

[W16227]

17 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Wow, it looks like you have given this a lot of thought. 

Would definitely agree with your statement in bold above.  Personally, my preference is also for very tightly graded books, especially ones which have not yet had their potential maximized since I am much more of an old school type of collector who prefers so-called "untouched" books.

 

By day - I am an engineer. By night - low end flipper/collector ( flip collections to make some extra money so I can buy more GA books, lol) --

Once I found the boards - the engineer side of me to learn whatever I could about grading/slabbing/pressing. Helps all around with collecting. If I had my preference, I would rather pressing did not exist, but since it does and is used by so many, better to know as much as you can about it.....  So it definitely is a nice thing to come across raw "unpressed" books that are graded/priced fairly ( my last pickup like this was a nice batman 14 from a boardie.) ...

Still early for that particular book - so no idea of a real estimate of the final price - but it looks to have already been bumped a little more, so probably less of a bargain now. Will probably get more interest closer to hammer time as well........

[VintageComics]

On 2017-03-30 at 11:18 AM, G.A.tor said:

On 2017-03-30 at 9:47 AM, lpsunburst said:

Not all AF 15 4.5's are created equal, I have a 4.5 that would be for sale in a minute if I thought I could get near that price. The 4.5 in the auction was an old label that presented extremely well, visually it looked several grades higher and I suspect it will be back after a little CPR.

Of course. And that is why we have to treat outlier sales as just that...

The problem is when sellers don't factor this in and treat the prices as a new range for all copies. Which is what usually happens.

[lou_fine]

5 minutes ago, W16227 said:

17 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Wow, it looks like you have given this a lot of thought. 

Would definitely agree with your statement in bold above.  Personally, my preference is also for very tightly graded books, especially ones which have not yet had their potential maximized since I am much more of an old school type of collector who prefers so-called "untouched" books.

 

By day - I am an engineer. By night - low end flipper/collector ( flip collections to make some extra money so I can buy more GA books, lol) --

Once I found the boards - the engineer side of me to learn whatever I could about grading/slabbing/pressing. Helps all around with collecting. If I had my preference, I would rather pressing did not exist, but since it does and is used by so many, better to know as much as you can about it.....  So it definitely is a nice thing to come across raw "unpressed" books that are graded/priced fairly ( my last pickup like this was a nice batman 14 from a boardie.) ...

Still early for that particular book - so no idea of a real estimate of the final price - but it looks to have already been bumped a little more, so probably less of a bargain now. Will probably get more interest closer to hammer time as well........

Yes, you are right since the book has indeed bumped up a bit:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=676934

I guess it's to be expected on the last day of bidding, although bidding in the extended time period for this particular CC auction seems to be quite a bit more tepid as compared to the last one.  So, even if it's bumped into the $500ish price level, it's probably still a steal of deal for a Church book since that would still be quite a bit lower than condition guide price.

Everybody keeps saying that books should be viewed in person which is not financially feasible most times.  Guess what, looks like the magic and economics of "letting your fingers do the walking" also works sometimes.  Now the Grader's Notes and grading makes sense as the "defects" had absolutely nothing at all to do with a possible bad pressing job in terms of the back cover shifting as pointed out by Gator.  Book supposedly went from a long-time private collection straight to grading without making a pit stop at the pressing table.   

Looks like the Sensation 40 must have come out from the same collection as it has the same series of serial numbers:

http://www.comicconnect.com/bookDetail.php?id=676935

Looks like non-color breaking creases must be at the top of the Hit Charts for the current crop of graders at CGC because the only breaks which I can see are very slight ones on the back cover.  I guess they must be there if you hold the book in hand and angle it properly to the light. 

Since I know this friend in the city who loves to find these types of books on the cheap for potential upgrade, maybe I'll let him know.  Especially since these mid-run non-key books generally fly under the radar in most auctions, although Wonder Woman is apparently coming out with her own movie later on this year.  Or maybe not if the price stays down here below guide since I am El Cheapo and always like tightly graded books at a discount price.   

 

[lou_fine]

Gator;

How tough of a book is New Adventure Comics #27?

Is New Adventure Comics #26 actually even tougher to find, although the cover for NA 27 looks so much nicer? 

Edited May 4, 2017 by lou_fine

[G.A.tor]

31 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Gator;

How tough of a book is New Adventure Comics #27?

Is New Adventure Comics #26 actually even tougher to find, although the cover for NA 27 looks so much nicer? 

They are equally tough 

[lou_fine]

15 minutes ago, G.A.tor said:

48 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Gator;

How tough of a book is New Adventure Comics #27?

Is New Adventure Comics #26 actually even tougher to find, although the cover for NA 27 looks so much nicer? 

They are equally tough 

Any tougher than the earlier and supposedly real toughies in terms of New Comics 2 and New Adventures 13? 

Of course, sad to say that nobody seems to want those earlier ones due to their humor related covers, as opposed to the later adventure related covers. 

[G.A.tor]

57 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

Any tougher than the earlier and supposedly real toughies in terms of New Comics 2 and New Adventures 13? 

Of course, sad to say that nobody seems to want those earlier ones due to their humor related covers, as opposed to the later adventure related covers. 

They all seem to exist in approximately same quantities in the market