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2004 prices vs. today's prices

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I just read Glen Gold's 2004 Playboy article about comic art for the first time, when Nick K included a link to his website on a different forum. Glen's article is well written with great anecdotal stories about many of the same collectors and dealers that we deal with today. What stood out to me were the prices and the estimates in the article.

 

Crisis #7 cover George Perez $75,000

Daredevil #43 cover Jack Kirby $75,000

X-men #142 title page John Byrne $35,000

ASM # 121 (entire story) Gil Kane $250,000

Black Goliath #5 cover Gil Kane $2,500

Batman #255 cover Neal Adams $55,000

 

 

For all the talk about escalating prices for OA, have prices really gone up dramatically in the past six years? What would be the 2010 estimates for the same examples above?

 

 

 

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I just read Glen Gold's 2004 Playboy article about comic art for the first time, when Nick K included a link to his website on a different forum. Glen's article is well written with great anecdotal stories about many of the same collectors and dealers that we deal with today. What stood out to me were the prices and the estimates in the article.

 

Crisis #7 cover George Perez $75,000

Daredevil #43 cover Jack Kirby $75,000

X-men #142 title page John Byrne $35,000

ASM # 121 (entire story) Gil Kane $250,000

Black Goliath #5 cover Gil Kane $2,500

Batman #255 cover Neal Adams $55,000

 

 

For all the talk about escalating prices for OA, have prices really gone up dramatically in the past six years? What would be the 2010 estimates for the same examples above?

 

 

 

 

I think when people talk about escalation it means very different things to different people.

 

Personally, if I could go back to 2004 and pick up (for example) more Bolland artwork, Watchmen pages, DKR pages, JRJR X-men pages, Romita/Layton Iron Man pages, Perez FF pages, Dave Stevens artwork, BWS Weapon X pages, Tim Sale Batman pages, Keown Hulk Covers, many Bronze Age Marvel covers, etc etc etc I would do it in a heartbeat, and I would mortgage the house to get as much as I could.

 

Each and every item I mentioned would cost me 1/2 or less of what they do today. In fact a sizable chunk of that list has tripled (easily) since 2004. Some of the pieces have escalated even more.

 

So I think, like every other hobby, everything will not be escalating at the same time. You have to look closer at artists, titles, and certain runs. Every dog seems to have his day and when one artist's work escalates it tends to make other comparable artists looks like a bargain.

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For years certain pieces of Original Art were skyrocketing like a juggernaut. I think 2004/2005 was the peak of that uncontrolled (and I thought) unsustainable increase in prices. Since then some guys that were responsible for hyping certain pieces and pumping up the prices have pulled out of the market on some of that stuff. Like anything else, when supply met/exceed demand at that level, the rate of increase slowed or ended. In some cases prices even fell back a little from their height.

 

I think a few people are of the mind that price levels and especially ever escalating prices are unsustainable in this hobby unless one of two things happen:

 

1 - We attract a lot of new blood to the hobby with expendable income

 

2 - There is more cross-over to a different type of mentality with high end pieces. More "gallery" or pop art thinking than down-and-dirty collectible thinking.

 

Without one or both of these things happening prices HAVE to level out. They certainly won't be increasing at the break-neck rate of 1998-2005 where almost anyone buying and selling artwork could do no wrong. I feel the only reason prices haven't dropped more is because many dealers have the luxury of being able to hold a piece for the price they want. There is no TRUE supply/demand. If Dealer X buys a piece for $15K and can't unload it for a profit, he'll just put it away until he can or find a way to trade it for many smaller pieces he can make a profit on or at least sell more quickly. The guys that got hurt are the collectors that were buying indiscriminately believing this stuff was practically liquid. I know a few that either took a bath when they suddenly needed to sell or are still shopping the same pieces month after month just trying to break even or minimize their losses.

 

 

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For all the talk about escalating prices for OA, have prices really gone up dramatically in the past six years? What would be the 2010 estimates for the same examples above?

 

Not sure about these specific pieces, but there is little doubt that the OA market as a whole peaked, to date, in the summer of 2008. Not coincidentally, this was the same time that the CRB commodity index - a broad measure of "hard assets" - topped out as well...$147/bbl. crude oil, anyone? Just as the Damien Hirst Sotheby's sale in September 2008 marked the peak of the contemporary art market, so did the San Diego Comic-Con in late July 2008 mark the peak so far of the comic OA market.

 

That's not to say that some prices haven't kept rising since then, but, any objective person will find it hard to argue that the strength of the overall market is anywhere close to the fever pitch it reached back in mid-2008. Nowhere is this more evident than in the 2nd and 3rd tier pieces where it's often tough to find any bid these days. :sorry:

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Not sure about these specific pieces, but there is little doubt that the OA market as a whole peaked, to date, in the summer of 2008.

 

While it's probably a vast oversimplification, there's probably no coincidence that that date more-or-less corresponds with The Recession as well.

 

But, if you ask me, it seems like the Recession has just been an opportunity for the Big Guys to merely... pause. It doesn't seem like finances are forcing a ton of people into selloffs.

 

But, my collecting focus is pretty narrow. Other people probably have much different observations.

 

Andrew

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Not sure about these specific pieces, but there is little doubt that the OA market as a whole peaked, to date, in the summer of 2008.

 

While it's probably a vast oversimplification, there's probably no coincidence that that date more-or-less corresponds with The Recession as well.

 

But, if you ask me, it seems like the Recession has just been an opportunity for the Big Guys to merely... pause. It doesn't seem like finances are forcing a ton of people into selloffs.

 

But, my collecting focus is pretty narrow. Other people probably have much different observations.

 

Andrew

 

Agreed. There have certainly been few if any fire sales. The few people who have unloaded during the recession have easily been replaced by even more people continuing to enter the market. I suspect that we're already over the hump in terms of the recession's effects on our hobby. Those who got hurt and had to move pieces have done so, and the rest of the collector community is capable of riding it out. Indeed, the fact that prices continue escalate, albeit at a slower pace and more selectively, is a sign off the health of the hobby overall.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

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Not sure about these specific pieces, but there is little doubt that the OA market as a whole peaked, to date, in the summer of 2008.

 

While it's probably a vast oversimplification, there's probably no coincidence that that date more-or-less corresponds with The Recession as well.

 

But, if you ask me, it seems like the Recession has just been an opportunity for the Big Guys to merely... pause. It doesn't seem like finances are forcing a ton of people into selloffs.

 

But, my collecting focus is pretty narrow. Other people probably have much different observations.

 

Andrew

 

Agreed. There have certainly been few if any fire sales. The few people who have unloaded during the recession have easily been replaced by even more people continuing to enter the market. I suspect that we're already over the hump in terms of the recession's effects on our hobby. Those who got hurt and had to move pieces have done so, and the rest of the collector community is capable of riding it out. Indeed, the fact that prices continue escalate, albeit at a slower pace and more selectively, is a sign off the health of the hobby overall.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

From my personal experience, i have found that during these last 2 years very few larger peices have been offered to me privately, regardless of the fact hat i have extended my offers on some of these pieces to ensure that parties are aware of my interest.

 

To me this is a sign that people who have these pieces, are not in need of releasing equity from hard assets just yet. The few that have sold pieces are doing so because they find it easier to sell a number of covers (at higher prices than 2008), than to sell other items that due to the economic climate have fallen in price.

 

I know this has been said before but 1st rate OA is still on the rise and i would hapily purchase most of the covers mentioned in the article at those prices today, if they were offered.

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Not sure about these specific pieces, but there is little doubt that the OA market as a whole peaked, to date, in the summer of 2008.

 

While it's probably a vast oversimplification, there's probably no coincidence that that date more-or-less corresponds with The Recession as well.

 

But, if you ask me, it seems like the Recession has just been an opportunity for the Big Guys to merely... pause. It doesn't seem like finances are forcing a ton of people into selloffs.

 

But, my collecting focus is pretty narrow. Other people probably have much different observations.

 

Andrew

 

Agreed. There have certainly been few if any fire sales. The few people who have unloaded during the recession have easily been replaced by even more people continuing to enter the market. I suspect that we're already over the hump in terms of the recession's effects on our hobby. Those who got hurt and had to move pieces have done so, and the rest of the collector community is capable of riding it out. Indeed, the fact that prices continue escalate, albeit at a slower pace and more selectively, is a sign off the health of the hobby overall.

 

Just my 2 cents...

 

From my personal experience, i have found that during these last 2 years very few larger peices have been offered to me privately, regardless of the fact hat i have extended my offers on some of these pieces to ensure that parties are aware of my interest.

 

To me this is a sign that people who have these pieces, are not in need of releasing equity from hard assets just yet. The few that have sold pieces are doing so because they find it easier to sell a number of covers (at higher prices than 2008), than to sell other items that due to the economic climate have fallen in price.

 

I know this has been said before but 1st rate OA is still on the rise and i would hapily purchase all the covers mentioned in the article at those prices today, if they were offered.

 

At the time the article came out, most people felt those prices were set where no one was realistically making offers. In other words, that's where the individual collectors put the value because they really didn't want to sell them. In today's market, I too agree they would sell easily at those prices, I know back then I valued my Crisis 8 cover at 50K or so, but today.... considerably more.

 

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>>Black Goliath #5 cover Gil Kane $2,500

 

i think after the hype of the death of Black Goliath in Civil War, you can safely square that price, add its original cover price, take the square-root and subtract one-half of the ratio of the original cover price and 50^2.

but that's just the formula i would use...

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>>Black Goliath #5 cover Gil Kane $2,500

 

i think after the hype of the death of Black Goliath in Civil War, you can safely square that price, add its original cover price, take the square-root and subtract one-half of the ratio of the original cover price divided by 50^2.

but that's just the formula i would use...

 

 

Now there's smoke coming out of my calculator....thanks. rantrant

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I just read Glen Gold's 2004 Playboy article about comic art for the first time, when Nick K included a link to his website on a different forum. Glen's article is well written with great anecdotal stories about many of the same collectors and dealers that we deal with today. What stood out to me were the prices and the estimates in the article.

 

Crisis #7 cover George Perez $75,000

Daredevil #43 cover Jack Kirby $75,000

X-men #142 title page John Byrne $35,000

ASM # 121 (entire story) Gil Kane $250,000

Black Goliath #5 cover Gil Kane $2,500

Batman #255 cover Neal Adams $55,000

 

 

For all the talk about escalating prices for OA, have prices really gone up dramatically in the past six years? What would be the 2010 estimates for the same examples above?

 

 

 

hold on a minute folks, lets step back and take an objective look at this okay.

 

Now WHEN did Playboy start adding articles to their fine magazine? I have noticed any when I looked through the magazine (shrug)

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hold on a minute folks, lets step back and take an objective look at this okay.

 

Now WHEN did Playboy start adding articles to their fine magazine? I have noticed any when I looked through the magazine (shrug)

 

Avtually, I was used to get reference material for an article in Playboy once. They even asked me for a scan to the cover of a comic I own for the piece. Whenever I go back an look at the piece, I always smile when I see that cover, because I know it's my personal copy being shown. I've even impressed people with this tale, because I tell them I "got into" Playboy magazine, without having my wife pose nude or having to spill the intimate details of my sex life.

 

For those interested, it's in the April 2000 issue of the mag. The story is titled "Holy Drug Wars, Batman!" and my cover is on the second page of the feature. ;)

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hold on a minute folks, lets step back and take an objective look at this okay.

 

Now WHEN did Playboy start adding articles to their fine magazine? I have noticed any when I looked through the magazine (shrug)

 

Avtually, I was used to get reference material for an article in Playboy once. They even asked me for a scan to the cover of a comic I own for the piece. Whenever I go back an look at the piece, I always smile when I see that cover, because I know it's my personal copy being shown. I've even impressed people with this tale, because I tell them I "got into" Playboy magazine, without having my wife pose nude or having to spill the intimate details of my sex life.

 

For those interested, it's in the April 2000 issue of the mag. The story is titled "Holy Drug Wars, Batman!" and my cover is on the second page of the feature. ;)

You can't tell this story without pictures. :sumo:
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I just read Glen Gold's 2004 Playboy article about comic art for the first time, when Nick K included a link to his website on a different forum. Glen's article is well written with great anecdotal stories about many of the same collectors and dealers that we deal with today. What stood out to me were the prices and the estimates in the article.

 

Crisis #7 cover George Perez $75,000

Daredevil #43 cover Jack Kirby $75,000

X-men #142 title page John Byrne $35,000

ASM # 121 (entire story) Gil Kane $250,000

Black Goliath #5 cover Gil Kane $2,500

Batman #255 cover Neal Adams $55,000

 

 

For all the talk about escalating prices for OA, have prices really gone up dramatically in the past six years? What would be the 2010 estimates for the same examples above?

 

 

 

Those values were likely high to begin with. As Hari pointed out, a lot of those appraisals were from collectors with vested interests. So I'm not sure how much, if any, those numbers would have increased since 2004. Strictly in terms of cash price; if any of those pieces exchange hands via trade, any number could be slapped on them.

 

Anyhow, the real run-up happened in the years prior. IIRC (and I'll admit my memory is a little fuzzy here), Kevin Eastman sold the CRISIS covers as a lot for only $6K when he was dismantling his OA collection circa 1999/2000. What would that end up being...less than 3% of its total value four years later? Scary.

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Anyhow, the real run-up happened in the years prior. IIRC (and I'll admit my memory is a little fuzzy here), Kevin Eastman sold the CRISIS covers as a lot for only $6K when he was dismantling his OA collection circa 1999/2000. What would that end up being...less than 3% of its total value four years later? Scary.

 

 

 

Scary?

 

That's probably heart-attack inducing...

 

...at least for the guy who sold early.

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Yes, I remember when those prices were listed in 2004, some seemed high for the day. Some were wishful thinking and/or cash/trade values.

 

Now, with some 80's/90's covers selling in the $60k-100k+ mark, I think there are actual public sales that can be pointed to that would justify the prices that were quoted. Before it was based on occasional private sales of high end items.

 

Anyway, here's my take on what those pieces would go for nowadays.

 

- Crisis #7 cover George Perez - $90-100k (I hesitate to even put it this high, but some would argue the value is a lot higher. I'd argue that there are only a handful of people that would be willing to shell out that this kind of money. $100k cash is hard to get for any comic art piece. Although this is a memorable cover from the 80's, there are other Miller, Byrne or Bolland covers that would likely go for more.)

 

- Daredevil #43 cover Jack Kirby - $80-90k (seems like this should go for more than an iconic 80's cover, but there are other nice Kirby covers from the 60's and not many have gone over $100k)

 

- X-men #142 title page John Byrne - $30k (the price on this one was optimistic in 2004. Most Byrne X-Men splashes were selling for around $12-20k at that time. This one is one of the nicer ones but Byrne X-Men prices haven't gone up much in a few years)

 

- ASM # 121 (entire story) Gil Kane - $400-500k (with the Kraven books going for so much, I think this classic story's break up value would set some records)

 

- Black Goliath #5 cover Gil Kane - $3-$4k (solid 70's cover, but not super in demand)

 

Batman #255 cover Neal Adams: $50k (this is one that seemed overpriced at the time. You see very high asking prices on Adams covers, but rarely see them sell for large cash sums in public. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice cover, but to get straight cash out of this one would be harder than cash/trade)

 

Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the subject.

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