Are "acid-free" backing boards truly acid-free? Time to pH test & find out! 13 13

[vacantpassenger]

WOW! Thanks, Mike, I don't know how I missed this post earlier either!

 

I have to agree with BCW on this. Now, I'm not saying that Mike's post was garbage, in fact I found it super informing, and it's actually going to make me switch to BCW.

 

The fact that the pH level changed on the board's surface means that there was an addition of H+ (positively charged hydrogen molecules, which is what an acid is) absorbed by the calcium carbonate.

 

The carbonate is what's called a Lewis base, and donates electrons to 2 positively charged hydrogen molecules to neutralize each other, and forms a weak acid known as carbonic acid (pH slightly above 6 if I remember correctly). The more carbonate molecules are used up with the absorption of acid, the lower the pH of the buffer surface over time.

 

Here's one way you can verify for yourselves if you have any doubts. Mix a small amount of water and white vinegar, and spread over a piece of paper and allow to dry. Test the pH of the paper before using a backing board (also test the surface of a board if you'd like clearer results.) Place the dried vinegar paper in a bag and board and allow for some time to pass. (If you're in a hurry, you can store at a higher heat and wait less time). Now when you remove and test the pH, you should find that the vinegar paper's pH level increased, while the board's should have decreased, showing an exchange of acid. You could also do the same using baking soda, but using the back of the board and looking for opposite pH results.

 

Mike, awesome work.

[vacantpassenger]

Also,

 

buff·er1    

[buhf-er]

–noun

1.

an apparatus at the end of a railroad car, railroad track, etc., for absorbing shock during coupling, collisions, etc.

2.

any device, material, or apparatus used as a shield, cushion, or bumper, especially on machinery.

3.

any intermediate or intervening shield or device reducing the danger of interaction between two machines, chemicals, electronic components, etc.

 

In all my years of collecting have I ever though that "buffered" boards were meant to mean "buffered throughout". The board itself is "buffered", the coating acts as a buffer.

 

Why else would one side be shinier than the other?

[whisp]

Is this a good thing? I can understand the unwanted acids but don't understand how absorbing ink from the comic would be a good thing.

Excellent question, Whisp. Calcium carbonate absorbs the ink when the ink is wet, not once it is dry. That is why it is recommended that your store your comic books in a cool, dry, place. Moisture can cause the ink to be transferred to whatever the comic book is in contact with, including a polypropylene, polyethylene, or polyester (Mylar) comic bag, while heat provides the energy to break the chemical bonds that hold the ink on the paper, and the chemical bonds that hold the paper together, causing accelerated deterioration of your comic books.

 

Ok

 

Thanks

 

 

[BCW Supplies]

The board itself is NOT buffered. The coating is.

The coating is the buffer. It is a coating of calcium carbonate, also referred to as clay coating.

 

No, you do not "clearly state" this at all. You have to go to a separate page to see that the board is actually SBS. On the page showing the 7 boards you sell (which most people order from) you state "- Buffered with 3% calcium carbonate" This clearly implies that the entire board is buffered with 3% calcium carbonate which is patently untrue.

If you reference Mike's original post you'll see that we state very clearly on the package that the board is solid bleached sulfate. Thank you for pointing out that it is not clearly stated in the description of the item on the web page. We will correct this. And, if you can recommend a better way to describe the calcium carbonate coating on the board we will correct that as well. Again, it is not our intention to mislead our customers. We provide a quality product at a competitive price, and we do not try to hide the fact that the board is solid bleached sulfate. In fact, we want to promote the fact that the board is solid bleached sulfate as opposed to clay coated news back (CCNews) for example, which is.recycled paperboard.

[Ze-man]

Wouldn't logic dictate that a 3% buffer in the form of a coating absorb more acid than if the 3% buffer were distributed throughout the board? We believe that is why Mike's data suggests that the used BCW Comic Backing Boards have become acidic on the coated side after a 2 year period and the E. Gerber half-backs are still neutral. It appears that the E. Gerber half-backs are not absorbing any residual acid, which is the purpose of the comic backing board.

 

Not to pick nits here. But I have been led to believe over years of discussion, that the calcium based components in boards and MCP "offest" acids and gasses.. rather then "absorb" them.

 

Hence why CGC magically recommended swapping out MCP every 7 years even though it looks the same. Not because the paper is acidic, but because the papers calcium reservoir was depleted...rendering it non effective in combating off gassing.

 

A buffered board(to me) means the board is buffered throughout. Not that it has a "buffer" on top. One would think a buffered board can draw upon a reserve more then a thin layer.

 

 

 

Keep in mind, I am tired and my thinking hat is not on. Just trying to promote the discussion with a few thoughts after reading the recently bumped thread..

 

Paging Scott Bonsofgasky..to the front desk FFB.

 

 

 

 

[BCW Supplies]

Not to pick nits here. But I have been led to believe over years of discussion, that the calcium based components in boards and MCP "offest" acids and gasses.. rather then "absorb" them.

We can use the terms "offset" and "absorb" interchangeably in this situation per vacantpassenger's explanation above. When the carbonate donates electrons to positively charged hydrogen molecules to neutralize each other we could say that the elements "offset" each other (because both elements are trying to achieve neutrality. The carbonate becomes more acidic and the hydrogen becomes more alkaline), or we could say that the carbonate "absorbs" the acid.

 

A buffered board(to me) means the board is buffered throughout. Not that it has a "buffer" on top. One would think a buffered board can draw upon a reserve more then a thin layer.

Think of it this way; we have a total of 3% calcium carbonate to "offset" or "absorb" acid regardless of whether that 3% is distributed throughout the board or sitting on top. Solid bleached sulfate is washed in an acid bath, and as Mike's data clearly demonstrates, the uncoated board is acidic with a pH level of 4. If the board is buffered throughout then most of the calcium carbonate is offsetting, or absorbing, the acid from the board itself and not the comic book. Therefore, if the board is buffered throughout, you would need much more than 3% to achieve the same result as a board with a 3% coating of calcium carbonate as demonstrated by the fact that the used E. Gerber half-back is still neutral after 2 years according to Mike's data.

[Darth Corgi]

My brain hurts.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

 

A buffered board(to me) means the board is buffered throughout. Not that it has a "buffer" on top. One would think a buffered board can draw upon a reserve more then a thin layer.

Think of it this way; we have a total of 3% calcium carbonate to "offset" or "absorb" acid regardless of whether that 3% is distributed throughout the board or sitting on top. Solid bleached sulfate is washed in an acid bath, and as Mike's data clearly demonstrates, the uncoated board is acidic with a pH level of 4. If the board is buffered throughout then most of the calcium carbonate is offsetting, or absorbing, the acid from the board itself and not the comic book. Therefore, if the board is buffered throughout, you would need much more than 3% to achieve the same result as a board with a 3% coating of calcium carbonate as demonstrated by the fact that the used E. Gerber half-back is still neutral after 2 years according to Mike's data.

 

Where did you get the information that your boards have a "total 3% calcium carbonate" buffer "sitting on top" in the coating?

 

[divad]

B-b-b-but, we like Mike!

We like Mike, too.

 

WTTB, and thanks for participating - good to have you here. It shows you care! (thumbs u

[PurpleZeke]

WOW!!! What an awesome thread!

[cloudofwit]

Backing board battles.

Edited June 10, 2011 by cloudofwit

[JediTrix]

My brain hurts.

 

Same here... too much info. I don't have the mental bandwidth to process it.

[BCW Supplies]

Where did you get the information that your boards have a "total 3% calcium carbonate" buffer "sitting on top" in the coating?

To clarify, the coating of calcium carbonate is the buffer. The buffer is not in the coating. It is the coating. To answer your specific question, the information is provided by the paper mills and verified by independent laboratory tests.

[mschmidt]

In the images that Mike provides in his article he demonstrates that the coated side of the BCW Comic Backing Board is indeed neutral with a pH level of 7, as are the other brands of comic boards. However, in his test results, Mike states that “the 2-year old E Gerber half-back shows hardly any change in its surface pH, the shiny coating on the 2-year old BCW backing board has broken down & both the front and the back of the board is now acidic.” Consider this; a comic backing board serves only two purposes. One is to act as a stiffener to prevent damage and the other is to absorb the residual acid migrating from the pages of the comic book (this is the reason that it is recommended that you change your bags and boards every 3 to 5 years). If the 2-year old E. Gerber half-back shows hardly any change in its surface pH as Mike has aptly demonstrated, then it isn’t absorbing any residual acid that migrates from the pages of the comic book.

Welcome to the boards.

 

The reason the E Gerber board shows close to zero change in its surface pH is because the calcium carbonate buffer is still active, which, in turn, ensures that the board maintains a neutral pH. Claiming that this proves the E Gerber board is ineffective in absorbing the acidic build-up within the comic book is utterly false - the whole point of a true archival-storage backing board is that not only is it pH neutral "at the time of manufacture", it also remains that way even after long-term use.

 

(And, no, I don't change my bags/boards every 3-5 years - I use mylar & true acid-free backing boards, so I don't have to.)

 

 

Also in the images that Mike provides, he demonstrates that the uncoated side of the new BCW Comic Backing Board is acidic with a pH level of 4. Further, he demonstrates that the pH level of the 2-year old BCW Comic Backing Board is acidic, also with a pH level of 4. Mike states in his conclusion that “these boards will actively contribute, on a molecular level, to the decay of your comic book from the moment they're placed inside the bag.” However, the fact that the pH level of the uncoated side of the BCW Comic Backing Board remains constant is evidence that the acid within the solid bleached sulfate board does not migrate to the comic book. Mike’s assertion that “it would be safer for your comic book to store them in a bag without a coated backing board” is absolutely false. Since there would be nothing to absorb the residual acid, your comic book would deteriorate more quickly.

A comic book in a bag with a board is a semi-sealed environment - if the board isn't buffered & pH neutral throughout, the acidic side of the board will actively contribute to the decay of said comic book, even as the coated side fights to break down the acids that are generated as the paper ages. There's no question that having one coated side is better than having two sides that are both uncoated, but I don't believe that having one coated side magically nullifies the inherent acidity of the uncoated side.

 

Also ... considering how fast the coating actually breaks down, you're going to end up with a board that's acidic throughout inside your little bag environment sooner than you think, so I have no problem whatsoever standing by my previous statement - not having a backing board in the bag is better than using a coated one.

 

 

One of the controls that appear to be lacking in this study is the description and/or images of the comic books used. Consider the fact that comic books can be in various degrees of deterioration depending on what materials were used and when the book was produced. Are we left to assume that Mike used 4 copies of the same comic book for his study? Another control that is missing from this study is the time period. Mike states that the E. Gerber half-backs and the BCW brand used boards are 1 1/2 – 2 years old. Is that 2 years for the E. Gerber half-backs and 1 1/2 years for the BCW Comic Backing Boards or vice versa? Is Mike implying that the boards have been used for the same period of time as the reader is left to assume?

 

We at BCW Supplies believe that Mike has gathered some useful data, but the study is lacking some scientific controls and does not support his conclusion.

This was a simple test, meant to reinforce what people have assumed for years - that if you're looking for a backing board suitable for archival storage you really only have two options: the ones from E Gerber and the ones from Bill Cole.

 

I think a true scientific test with double-blind controls & accelerated paper aging, all done in a sealed environment, would be absolutely fascinating, and I would urge you to initiate such a study - after all, you are the ones selling these backing boards.

 

In regards to this test not supporting my conclusion, I fail to see how that is correct, though - what my simple test clearly shows is:

 

a) the buffered coating on a regular backing board wears off over time which leaves the entire board acidic

b) this does not happen with the boards manufactured by E Gerber & Bill Cole

 

Would you care to respond to the "Pants on fire" rating I gave to your BCW Extenders?

[NP_Gresham]

This is by far the best thread EVER.

Huge Kudos to mschmidt

[divad]

 

 

(thumbs u

[mschmidt]

I have to agree with BCW on this. Now, I'm not saying that Mike's post was garbage, in fact I found it super informing, and it's actually going to make me switch to BCW.

 

The fact that the pH level changed on the board's surface means that there was an addition of H+ (positively charged hydrogen molecules, which is what an acid is) absorbed by the calcium carbonate.

 

The carbonate is what's called a Lewis base, and donates electrons to 2 positively charged hydrogen molecules to neutralize each other, and forms a weak acid known as carbonic acid (pH slightly above 6 if I remember correctly). The more carbonate molecules are used up with the absorption of acid, the lower the pH of the buffer surface over time.

 

Here's one way you can verify for yourselves if you have any doubts. Mix a small amount of water and white vinegar, and spread over a piece of paper and allow to dry. Test the pH of the paper before using a backing board (also test the surface of a board if you'd like clearer results.) Place the dried vinegar paper in a bag and board and allow for some time to pass. (If you're in a hurry, you can store at a higher heat and wait less time). Now when you remove and test the pH, you should find that the vinegar paper's pH level increased, while the board's should have decreased, showing an exchange of acid. You could also do the same using baking soda, but using the back of the board and looking for opposite pH results.

 

Mike, awesome work.

 

Far be it for me to say where you should buy your backing boards, but it seems like you're missing the point here.

 

Simplistically speaking, the sole purpose of an alkaline buffer such as calcium carbonate is to accept the protons donated by acids and neutralize them before they wreak havoc upon the paper. The larger the alkaline buffer, the more protons it can accept before the buffer is rendered inert and the item itself starts becoming acidic.

 

Seeing that the BCW boards (and every other regular backing board for that matter) have just a thin coated buffer on one side, their ability to absorb these protons is highly limited - which is why their coating breaks down fast and you see such a drastic change in the surface pH.

 

The archival safe boards, however, have a much larger alkaline buffer throughout and can therefore absorb a much larger amount of protons - the fact that the surface pH of the archival safe board doesn't change noticeably over time is a very good thing, because it means that the buffer is still active & is still working to absorb the protons.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I have to agree with BCW on this. Now, I'm not saying that Mike's post was garbage, in fact I found it super informing, and it's actually going to make me switch to BCW.

 

The fact that the pH level changed on the board's surface means that there was an addition of H+ (positively charged hydrogen molecules, which is what an acid is) absorbed by the calcium carbonate.

 

The carbonate is what's called a Lewis base, and donates electrons to 2 positively charged hydrogen molecules to neutralize each other, and forms a weak acid known as carbonic acid (pH slightly above 6 if I remember correctly). The more carbonate molecules are used up with the absorption of acid, the lower the pH of the buffer surface over time.

 

Here's one way you can verify for yourselves if you have any doubts. Mix a small amount of water and white vinegar, and spread over a piece of paper and allow to dry. Test the pH of the paper before using a backing board (also test the surface of a board if you'd like clearer results.) Place the dried vinegar paper in a bag and board and allow for some time to pass. (If you're in a hurry, you can store at a higher heat and wait less time). Now when you remove and test the pH, you should find that the vinegar paper's pH level increased, while the board's should have decreased, showing an exchange of acid. You could also do the same using baking soda, but using the back of the board and looking for opposite pH results.

 

Mike, awesome work.

 

Far be it for me to say where you should buy your backing boards, but it seems like you're missing the point here.

 

Simplistically speaking, the sole purpose of an alkaline buffer such as calcium carbonate is to accept the protons donated by acids and neutralize them before they wreak havoc upon the paper. The larger the alkaline buffer, the more protons it can accept before the buffer is rendered inert and the item itself starts becoming acidic.

 

Seeing that the BCW boards (and every other regular backing board for that matter) have just a thin coated buffer on one side, their ability to absorb these protons is highly limited - which is why their coating breaks down fast and you see such a drastic change in the surface pH.

 

The archival safe boards, however, have a much larger alkaline buffer throughout and can therefore absorb a much larger amount of protons - the fact that the surface pH of the archival safe board doesn't change noticeably over time is a very good thing, because it means that the buffer is still active & is still working to absorb the protons.

 

vacantpassenger you are missing the forest for the trees. The coating is not absorbing the acid from the comic it is absorbing the acid from the board! That is why the coating breaks down so fast. The SBS board they use is HIGHLY acidic by the time it reaches your comic shop.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Can we get a Name and Title of the person responding on behalf of BCW Supplies?

 

I can't recall any other "corporate" type account on the board that does not provide this information.

[FFB]

I have to agree with BCW on this. Now, I'm not saying that Mike's post was garbage, in fact I found it super informing, and it's actually going to make me switch to BCW.

 

The fact that the pH level changed on the board's surface means that there was an addition of H+ (positively charged hydrogen molecules, which is what an acid is) absorbed by the calcium carbonate.

 

The carbonate is what's called a Lewis base, and donates electrons to 2 positively charged hydrogen molecules to neutralize each other, and forms a weak acid known as carbonic acid (pH slightly above 6 if I remember correctly). The more carbonate molecules are used up with the absorption of acid, the lower the pH of the buffer surface over time.

 

Here's one way you can verify for yourselves if you have any doubts. Mix a small amount of water and white vinegar, and spread over a piece of paper and allow to dry. Test the pH of the paper before using a backing board (also test the surface of a board if you'd like clearer results.) Place the dried vinegar paper in a bag and board and allow for some time to pass. (If you're in a hurry, you can store at a higher heat and wait less time). Now when you remove and test the pH, you should find that the vinegar paper's pH level increased, while the board's should have decreased, showing an exchange of acid. You could also do the same using baking soda, but using the back of the board and looking for opposite pH results.

 

Mike, awesome work.

 

Far be it for me to say where you should buy your backing boards, but it seems like you're missing the point here.

 

Simplistically speaking, the sole purpose of an alkaline buffer such as calcium carbonate is to accept the protons donated by acids and neutralize them before they wreak havoc upon the paper. The larger the alkaline buffer, the more protons it can accept before the buffer is rendered inert and the item itself starts becoming acidic.

 

Seeing that the BCW boards (and every other regular backing board for that matter) have just a thin coated buffer on one side, their ability to absorb these protons is highly limited - which is why their coating breaks down fast and you see such a drastic change in the surface pH.

 

The archival safe boards, however, have a much larger alkaline buffer throughout and can therefore absorb a much larger amount of protons - the fact that the surface pH of the archival safe board doesn't change noticeably over time is a very good thing, because it means that the buffer is still active & is still working to absorb the protons.

 

Exactly. BCW is flat out wrong about the utility of its coating vs. the Gerber board, which has fully 3% of its total content being calcium carbonate (CaCO3). It would take a highly acidic book decades to neutralize enough CaCO3 to render a Gerber Half Back acidic, whereas the BCW board is already acidic except for the thin coating of CaCO3 sitting on top of one side of the board and will turn acidic on its own without any external acid being introduced (which cannot happen to the Gerber board).

 

What worries me most of all is that BCW does not seem to understand how an alkaline reserve actually works, and yet they are making erroneous representations that collectors might rely on in making purchase decisions.