Are "acid-free" backing boards truly acid-free? Time to pH test & find out! 13 13

[thunderstick]

[font:Comic Sans MS]THIS[/font]

 

[font:Comic Sans MS]THREAD[/font]

 

[font:Comic Sans MS]KEEPS[/font]

 

[font:Comic Sans MS]GETTING[/font]

 

[font:Comic Sans MS]BETTER![/font]

 

[Tomega]

If the 2-year old E. Gerber half-back shows hardly any change in its surface pH as Mike has aptly demonstrated, then it isn’t absorbing any residual acid that migrates from the pages of the comic book.

 

 

That is not true, it means that it is still doing it's job - just like a microchamber not showing any PH change in the same amount of time. It tells me that your board loses it effectiveness much faster than the eGerber. Of course that is not the complete story, they may be a price difference .

[OldGuy]

[BCW Supplies]

We apologize for the delay in our response. We are calling on professionals in the paper industry and gathering the information necessary to address your questions. One thing that we would like to stress is that we have a common goal; to determine, beyond any reasonable doubt, the facts regarding the use of solid bleached sulfate for comic backing boards. It should be noted that we do not recommend solid bleached sulfate boards for long term storage of comic books. Our BCW Comic Backing Boards are offered as a cost effective short term storage solution which is why we recommend that you change your backing boards every 3 to 5 years as outlined in the information regarding the storage of comics and magazines provided on bcwsupplies.com.

 

In response to Mike's request that we address his dubious award, we have not been presented with any evidence that would support Mike's claims that BCW Comic Extenders "..are certain to cause undue strain on the staples which can lead to the staples popping through the paper." While we understand that the information regarding comic backing boards is important, ultimately this conversation is about the preservation of comic books themselves. With this is mind we will state that no comic books, damaged or otherwise, have been presented as proof of Mike's claims.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Who were you again?

[BCW Supplies]

Exactly. BCW is flat out wrong about the utility of its coating vs. the Gerber board, which has fully 3% of its total content being calcium carbonate (CaCO3). It would take a highly acidic book decades to neutralize enough CaCO3 to render a Gerber Half Back acidic, whereas the BCW board is already acidic except for the thin coating of CaCO3 sitting on top of one side of the board and will turn acidic on its own without any external acid being introduced (which cannot happen to the Gerber board).

We have been able to confirm that E. Gerber full-backs and half-backs are made from Archival Mat Board which is pH neutral and inert. By design, Archival Mat Board will not absorb the residual acid that migrates from the pages of a comic book. It should be noted that nowhere on their web site or packaging does E. Gerber state that their full-backs or half-backs will absorb acid. E. Gerber claims only that their product will not contribute to the deterioration of comic books. E. Gerber full-backs and half backs are intended to be an archival safe stiffener and nothing more.

 

What worries me most of all is that BCW does not seem to understand how an alkaline reserve actually works, and yet they are making erroneous representations that collectors might rely on in making purchase decisions.

We are well aware of how an alkaline reserve works. As vacantpassenger has stated, the calcium carbonate is a Lewis base. A Lewis base is any species that donates lone pair electrons. When a Lewis base reacts with a Lewis acid it forms a Lewis adduct by sharing the electron pair. This concept should be familiar to anyone who took (and paid attention in) a high school chemistry class. What concerns us is that there are individuals who are making erroneous claims about our products and our company that collectors might rely on in making purchases.

[faster friends]

[Aman619]

seems the best longterm solution might be the totally inert (Gerber) boards, plus microchamber paper (swapped out periodically) to NOT add acid to the environment and absorb the acid from the comic. Better this way than adding an acid releasing boars in a closed space plus an acid releasing comic, and better than than a board with a 3% (temporary) coating to absorbs acids from the comic AND the board, as it will be acidic too soon.

 

do I get a B+ at least?

[OldGuy]

seems the best longterm solution might be the totally inert (Gerber) boards, plus microchamber paper (swapped out periodically) to NOT add acid to the environment and absorb the acid from the comic. Better this way than adding an acid releasing boars in a closed space plus an acid releasing comic, and better than than a board with a 3% (temporary) coating to absorbs acids from the comic AND the board, as it will be acidic too soon.

 

do I get a B+ at least?

 

 

[BCW Supplies]

vacantpassenger you are missing the forest for the trees. The coating is not absorbing the acid from the comic it is absorbing the acid from the board!

If this statement were true then solid bleached sulfate boards would turn yellow while they are still sealed in the package.

[BCW Supplies]

seems the best longterm solution might be the totally inert (Gerber) boards, plus microchamber paper (swapped out periodically) to NOT add acid to the environment and absorb the acid from the comic. Better this way than adding an acid releasing boars in a closed space plus an acid releasing comic, and better than than a board with a 3% (temporary) coating to absorbs acids from the comic AND the board, as it will be acidic too soon.

 

do I get a B+ at least?

As we stated before, we agree that MCP is the best long term storage solution for your comic books. However, Mike's study shows that even after two years of use the uncoated side of the solid bleached sulfate backing board still has a pH level of 4 which means that the acid in the board does not migrate to your comic book. And, if the calcium carbonate absorbs the residual acid from the book itself, isn't that better than a pH neutral board, or no board at all?

[Aman619]

so, how about neutral PH boards with the 3% coating added! thats one louder!

 

seriously, why not?

 

of course adding microchamber paper would be similar to adding an acid eating buffer coating.

 

[namisgr]

We have been able to confirm that E. Gerber full-backs and half-backs are made from Archival Mat Board which is pH neutral and inert. By design, Archival Mat Board will not absorb the residual acid that migrates from the pages of a comic book.

 

This comment is incorrect. E. Gerber fullbacks are manufactured with a 3% calcium carbonate buffer throughout the board. The board is pH neutral but, rather than being inert, contains the carbonate buffer capable of absorbing any acidic gases given off by comic book paper or inks.

 

As for the utility of microchamber paper, I believe a main function is to block the transfer staining that occurs between inside cover/splash page and outer cover page.

 

Finally, it would be easy to perform a controlled test of the buffering capacity of different types of backing boards, which is a different issue from the one addressed by mschmidt's original test. It could be done by adding to a fixed volume of a weak acid a standard size piece of each type of backing board, allowing the board to sit in the weak acid for a fixed time period, and measuring the pH of the residual weak acid after removing the piece of board (and comparing it with the pH before adding the piece of board). The better the buffering capacity of the board, the higher the pH of the residual weak acidic solution.

[BCW Supplies]

The reason the E Gerber board shows close to zero change in its surface pH is because the calcium carbonate buffer is still active, which, in turn, ensures that the board maintains a neutral pH. Claiming that this proves the E Gerber board is ineffective in absorbing the acidic build-up within the comic book is utterly false - the whole point of a true archival-storage backing board is that not only is it pH neutral "at the time of manufacture", it also remains that way even after long-term use.

As stated previously, we have been able to confirm that E.Gerber full-backs and half-backs are made from Archival Mat Board and they are inert which means that they do not absorb the residual acid from the pages of a comic book.

 

(And, no, I don't change my bags/boards every 3-5 years - I use mylar & true acid-free backing boards, so I don't have to.)

While this statement may be true, Mike has done nothing to hinder the deterioration of his comic books.

[namisgr]

The reason the E Gerber board shows close to zero change in its surface pH is because the calcium carbonate buffer is still active, which, in turn, ensures that the board maintains a neutral pH. Claiming that this proves the E Gerber board is ineffective in absorbing the acidic build-up within the comic book is utterly false - the whole point of a true archival-storage backing board is that not only is it pH neutral "at the time of manufacture", it also remains that way even after long-term use.

As stated previously, we have been able to confirm that E.Gerber full-backs and half-backs are made from Archival Mat Board and they are inert which means that they do not absorb the residual acid from the pages of a comic book.

 

Not according to the E. Gerber website:

 

Fullbacks -

Genuine acid-free, cellular fiber.

Meets strict U.S. Government standards for archival storage.

3% calcium carbonate buffer throughout, maintains a neutral pH.

 

I'm curious as to the source of your information on the E. Gerber fullbacks, particularly since you're suggesting that E. Gerber misrepresents the composition of their boards.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

I can see why you don't want to identify yourself.

Anyone who is spewing this much disinformation should definitely remain anonymous.

 

The poster making the most erroneous claims about your products (and those of other manufacturers) is you.

[BCW Supplies]

This comment is incorrect. E. Gerber fullbacks are manufactured with a 3% calcium carbonate buffer throughout the board. The board is pH neutral but, rather than being inert, contains the carbonate buffer capable of absorbing any acidic gases given off by comic book paper or inks.

Please feel free to contact E. Gerber on this issue directly. They make no claim that their full-backs or half-backs absorb any residual acid from the pages of a comic book. And, Mike's study demonstrates that they do not. If they did the surface pH of the E. Gerber boards in Mike's study would show a lower pH level.

 

Here's a thought; rather than take our word for it you can perform vacantpassenger's vinegar paper test using E. Gerber full-backs or half-backs and see for yourself.

[comicdonna]

I can see why you don't want to identify yourself.

Anyone who is spewing this much disinformation should definitely remain anonymous.

 

The poster making the most erroneous claims about your products (and those of other manufacturers) is you.

I have notice that he has ignored you about 3 times when you asked. I think it was a fair question.

[namisgr]

This comment is incorrect. E. Gerber fullbacks are manufactured with a 3% calcium carbonate buffer throughout the board. The board is pH neutral but, rather than being inert, contains the carbonate buffer capable of absorbing any acidic gases given off by comic book paper or inks.

Please feel free to contact E. Gerber on this issue directly. They make no claim that their full-backs or half-backs absorb any residual acid from the pages of a comic book. And, Mike's study demonstrates that they do not. If they did the surface pH of the E. Gerber boards in Mike's study would show a lower pH level.

 

You're wrong on two fronts.

1. No matter what E. Gerber fails to claim about acid absorption by their fullbacks, it remains a stated fact that they contain calcium carbonate, a buffer that will react with acidic gases that come in contact with it.

 

2. Because the E. Gerber boards are buffered, their pH will not decline to an appreciable degree as they absorb acidic gases given off by a comic. It is instead the boards with a poor buffering capacity that will change in pH after being exposed to an acidic comic book.

[BCW Supplies]

Not according to the E. Gerber website:

 

Fullbacks -

Genuine acid-free, cellular fiber.

Meets strict U.S. Government standards for archival storage.

3% calcium carbonate buffer throughout, maintains a neutral pH.

 

I'm curious as to the source of your information on the E. Gerber fullbacks, particularly since you're suggesting that E. Gerber misrepresents the composition of their boards.

The information came directly from E. Gerber, and we did not suggest that E. Gerber has misrepresented their products. As for the quote from the E. Gerber web site, where does it state that full-backs and half-backs absorb any acid?