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Grading Help? What am I missing here?

37 posts in this topic

Steve,

That is very interesting, since I can't see what your talking about on the book. My question is "Even if the crease doesn't break color should you still be able to see a line indentation on the paper under bright light?" Well there is none- front or back! And stress! Where? On the back cover? If it is there it is also infinitesimal. Is stress supposed to break color also or is that something that can also be a hidden defect?

I guess my beef is that I have seen a lot worse on higher graded books. I can also compare it to 50 other high grade CGC books I own and in several instances the higher grade is inferior. conservo.

 

 

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One thing to keep in mind is the sort of problem that steve described there is impossible to see inside the case. It's one of the flaws with using CGC graded books as grading specimens. Creases that don't break color can disappear inside the case (just like they can inside the bag on non-cgc graded books.) I have no idea what's up with your specific book of course...

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Mud Buddha,

That sounds like a reasonable explanation (although I do know what a spine stress and crease on a white cover book looks like I will take your word for it). But one of the laments by me and many others is that there are no posted standards (how do invisible defects affect grade for instance?) by CGC and probably won't be in the near future. So CGC comparison is the "only" standard I can base my complaints on.

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Would wouldn't exterior creases be invisible through the CGC case?

 

Can everyone see the crease on the left side of the back of the comic at this link? This has the front of a 9.6, but I think due to the back it's a 9.2.

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if the above guess is true, then... have you never seen a book with a non color breaking crease that looked great in the bag? The crease doesn't actually break any of the paper fibers. You have to pull it out of the bag and look at it from an angle to see it? The exact same way you have to angle a book to see certain types of surface wear. That sort of damage is hidden by the holder. I actually did a test case book. It's the sort of book that, in the holder (or in a bag or scan) looks like at least a 9.4, but when you look at it naked you see enough surface wear to drop it down to an 8.5. Don't ask me why it works that way, I'm not an expert in optics.

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Look over at the General Comics Discussion forum. They have a 9.6 book they are debating about- now that is tanning! And 9.6!!!! Someone please explain that one to me!
Here's the explanation--the darkness you see on that book is most likely a dust or sun shadow, not tanning. Here's a definition of the difference between the three, quoted from forum member NativeNewYorker: "Tanning is oxidation of the paper that results in brittleness. Dust shadow is years worth of dust embedded into the exposed cover of a book and takes away from aesthetics. Sun shadow is similar in appearance to a dust shadow and is actually a burn mark on the exposed cover of a book."

 

Tanning typically affects multiple pages on both the front and back. Dust shadows affect the exterior only on one side; I'm not sure if sun shadows show through to the interior cover or not.

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> Tanning typically affects multiple pages on both the front and back. Dust shadows affect the exterior only on one side; I'm not sure if sun shadows show through to the interior cover or not.

 

I've noticed that CGC seems to be much tougher on tanning (as in this pic) than on dust shadows. Too see an example of a 9.6 GA book with clear dust shadows, go to www.pgcmint.com and search (upper right corner) for Four Color 159. Browsing through Heritage's catalogs, you can see many even more dramatic examples of how CGC seems to ignore dust shadows. I wonder why that is?

 

 

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I think that CGC is fair when it comes to downgrading for tanning. I have a Cap #111 that, structurally, looks like a 9.4. Very solid book, but the cover is considerably tanned. It got a 9.0 (unfortunately for me frown.gif ). Although it would have been nice to get the 9.4, b/c of the tanning, I think it got the grade it deserved. Tanning takes so much away from the look of a book.

 

Chris

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I'm not sure why they don't downgrade more for dust/sun shadows, but I know why they downgrade more for tanning. It often affects a much larger portion of the book than a shadow, and even more importantly, it's a sign of advanced deterioration of the paper. Shadows don't damage the paper as much as tanning; I hear some shadows can even be removed.

 

CGC just doesn't seem to downgrade much for most types of light shmutz on the cover, including shadows, soiling, or ink splotches.

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