Wizard First Program - Not April's Fools

[Aces]

Wizard First

 

 

Who wants a 9.5?

I thought the Modern collectors wanted 9.8 or bust?

[blowout]

Wizard First

 

 

 

As Khaos said (and I hate to agree with him ) there are so many things wrong with this that its hard to know where to start.

CGC has been a great thing for our hobby, creating a more reliable and consistent way to buy and sell comics. But is getting involved in rampant speculation really the way best way forward?

 

...And don't even get me started on the grading scale changes.

[drice6900]

Unbelievable. Un-flippin' believable...

[THE_BEYONDER]

And then there is this quote....

“We’re very excited to team up with Wizard on this,” said Steve Borock, Vice President and Primary Grader at CGC. “Getting books straight from the printer reduces the number of hands they have to pass through.”

 

 

 

Paging Steve B.....Paging Steve B.....

 

If ever there was a time for CGC to post a response.....this is it.

 

It is beginning to feel more and more like 1993 everyday. Manufactured collectibles? How soon everyone forgets about THE FEAR .

[awe4one]

It is beginning to feel more and more like 1993 everyday. Manufactured collectibles? How soon everyone forgets about THE FEAR .

 

"Those that forget the past, are doomed to repeat it...."

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

If this is true, I am definitely out. I've been on the edge of just dropping comic collecting, and waiting out the inevitable storm, but the Wizard First BS coupled with Bob Overstreet racking 9.2 prices to the stratosphere, are looking like the final straws.

 

We all know how comic speculation is going to turn out, and this is just like when I saw a foil-enhanced copy of Bloodshot #1 staring at me from the shelf. I had been hedging, hoping that rampant speculation and parabolic price increases would slow down.... but that moment, I sold all my Valiants, dropped new issues completely, and just bought the odd Bronze book at deep discount.

 

I've learned to trust my intuition in these matters, and it's high time to get out of collecting for a bit, and just sell my excess books.

[Rocketeer]

When you think about it CGC has already moved the small dealer out of the Modern market,.....just by having to wait three month,...yes three months to get a Modern submission back,...that alone has poked the small dealer up the bung hole in regards to getting new shelf books graded....why submit your Conan #1 when you are going to be last in the market to get it to the public,......which makes you stop and think for a moment......and wonder (well me at least) if the recent slow down in returns all been orchestrated to perhaps ween the small dealer out of the new book market so by this time he doesn't put up a big a fight as he would have before when he was getting his books back in a month,...like everyone else??.....just my paranoid view of the day.....

[Ares]

IS THE CGC CRASH COMMING SOON AND COMMING HARD?

[Kevin Boyd]

I'm definitely not a fan of Wizard First, I think it's a pretty dumb idea, but it was Wizard's, and well, they have been known to have some lame ducks from time to time. But here's a few things to consider:

 

- only Wizard is doing this, every other submitter gets their books graded the same way, with the regular grading system.

 

- Wizard has been getting books graded for years now, they have been selling them at conventions for at least a year, and they only do a handful of titles - not every and any book out there - just the ones they think will be speculated on. I could have bought Secret War #1 9.8 for them for $50 at their booth in LA, and they had stacks of them... So to say that Wizard will be adding volume to CGC's workload is not quite correct unless this thing really takes off - which is uncertain. They are already in the existing workload and have been for years.

 

- if you were a buyer, would a Wizard 10.0 - which is not the same as a regular 10.0 - mean anything to you? It's essentially a 9.8 rounded up, just as a 9.5 is a 9.6 or a 9.4 in disguise.

 

Frankly... I think Wizard paid a boatload of cash to get their own grading system within the legitimate grading company. I am not optimistic that it will be a big success, and I think those books that make their way into the market outside of Wizard's "world" will be treated like [!@#%^&^] step-children - largely ignored by everyone except for the people that Joe feels he must protect - the ignorant, hard-core speculator.

 

As for pv's criticism of the Signature Series... sure, it's a manufactured collectible - manufactured at the behest of the collector or dealer who submits it... much in the same way that a Hulk 181 magically becomes more collectible when it gets graded and encapsulated the regular way. It did not "suddenly" become a 9.6 at CGC - it was like that before it went there. People just don't believe a regular seller if he were to sell such a book raw and claim it was a 9.6 - just as they can't fully trust a seller with a rare signature that the sig truly authentic unless it has been verified.

 

(CGC isn't hiring a signature expert, although that wouldn't be a bad idea, I think it's probably not cost effective as signed comics are barely a fraction of their total output.)

 

On the other hand, if you don't care about the verification and believe the signature is authentic, then who cares? Do you need acknowledgement on the label? If it's green (or blue with a notation) and says "Stan Lee written on cover" and it looks like Stan's sig - it STILL leaves the decision with the buyer/collector - CGC isn't getting involved either way, except to say they don't know.

 

With the yellow label CGC is saying, yes, we saw Stan sign it on this date at this time and that there is no debate at CGC that it is authentic. That doesn't mean that the buyer/collector WON'T be skeptical, as I have seen here on this board.

 

You might as well call all graded comics manufactured collectibles.

[dam60]

Same with their signature series which is turning into nothing more than a big joke.

 

Hold on one second - I am not saying that I approve of this Wizard First program because I do not and I do think it gives them an unfair advantage but the signature series is something that I strongly believe in. Think of it like this - a CGC rep witnesses a signature and then proceeds to take possession of a book and eventually grade and slab it. With all the unscrupulous people out there, I sincerely don't get what's wrong with this program.

 

Pov, in regards to "signature authenticators" for the added expense of having one on retainer is it really worth it? Furthermore, these "authenticators" can make mistakes. A VERY public example was with the forged mickey mantle baseball - forged by the Fox news reported literally 5 minutes before the signature authenticator came on the show!

 

The signature series is a good thing and will continue to increase as people learn more about it.

 

DAM

[joe_collector]

With all the unscrupulous people out there, I sincerely don't get what's wrong with this program.

 

My beef, is that CGC should be grading comics, and not looking to create new "manufactured collectibles" when the mood hits them.

 

This Wizard First program is another example of this, and it seems that if you wave enough cash in front of CGC (as with Chuck getting MH2 on his books, or Dallas Stephens), then they act like a puppet on a string.

[Red Hook]

Stunned is the word.

 

Yesterday I picked out the top 20 silver age books in my collection with the goal of finally biting the bullet and submitting them for economy service, realizing I would see them until I was a 50 year old man. (I turn 50 end of July). But after reading this, I am putting my raw books back in the drawer. CGC can't be serious about speeding up the turnaround time if they are going to take this on. I did resent paying close to $50 a book standard for my last submisssion and getting the equivalent of economy service for it. I'm not a big time dealer looking to flip for a profit. I just wanted my books graded and protected. Well, that plan is now out the window.

 

And yes, Manufactured Collectible is a filthy phrase. This does not bode well.

 

Anybody got CGG's web address handy?

 

(Calm down RS, I got it.)

 

But seriously, if there was ever an opening for a legitimate competitor to CGC, Steve B. just handed them an engraved invitation.

[Foolkiller]

First off, My public apology goes out to Marvelous for completely ripping on him for being stupid and not getting the April Fool's joke. Marv, I still think you're insane, but you obviously called it right on this one, and I was totally wrong to make the "insufficiently_thoughtful_person" comment now...

 

 

However... this is a terrible, terrible idea. Stevie B. although I love CGC for a lot of things and love the company, this idea is just horofic on so many levels. Talk about truly taking us back to the 90s -- this is just the new kind of foil cover or third variant or whatever, it's rediculous. Plus, there's a new grading tier!!!! what the -- ? I understand CGC is a business and that to a large degree, this is a marketing ploy designed to get your product further exposure, generate more busienss, and keep a continuous supply of product available, but c'mon, this has to be the most absurd idea ever. It's soooo outrageous because it basically just feeds into the idea that anything will be done to make money in the short term without an eye towards the impact this have on the market as a whole.

 

I like the signature series and am happy with the idea that things are progressing well for CGC... but this is a short sighted business plan that I think much of the comics community will not be happy with. My recommendation is to nix this... FAST.

[FlComicFan]

Manufactured Collectible! Says it all. CGC and Wizard and Overstreet can all kiss my behind. Can you spell GGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDD. No excuse whatsover for CGC doing this [!@#%^&^]. The company was supposed to be there for the collector to help with confidence on vintage comics and screen out restortion WTF does slabbing new comics have to do with anything other than making cash All the fools buying the slabbed Moderns fresh from the printer go back to buying your collectiblem on Home Shopping Channel please You have a better chance of getting a return on some of the garbage they sell there. Thanks Overstreet for changing the grades yet again for the umpteenth time. Lets just escalate the unsustainable prices some more.

[Marvelous]

I will be taking apologies from everyone who doubted me now starting with JC, MK, and Foolkiller. This one must really make you guys feel inadequate. I am trying not to gloat here.

[joe_collector]

I will be taking apologies from everyone who doubted me now starting with JC, MK, and Foolkiller. This one must really make you guys feel inadequate. I am trying not to gloat here.

 

Actually, I find this part even scarier for CGC.

 

After all, CGC has agreed to a patently-insane, Wizard-orchestrated scheme, that only the similarly-insane Marvelous didn't think was an April Fool's joke.

 

The End is Near.

[sborock]

O.K. real quick ( I do have books to grade) and I will answer ANY other questions at the chat board dinner this weekend.

 

1: Wizard wanted to sell a "First Look" product.

 

2: They contacted us because they like us and like working with us. We also like working with them. They are the ones that make on-site grading possible and put on the best conventions in the country.

 

3: The deal is that Wizard will get a limited amount of copies of only a few titles from Marvel right off the press and they CONTRACTED us to grade their books using WIZARD'S NEW GRADING SCALE. This is stated on the back of the label.

 

4: There is NO change in the CGC grading scale.

 

5: The label says "CGC GRADED" and is red. It does not say Universal like a blue CGC label does. It is a Wizard product that they sell. There should be very little if any confusion in the market place.

 

6: We are a Business and I would rather grade their product then Wizard going somewhere else or grading it themselves. We like the additional revenue and I would much rather have our team grade the books then someone else who does not know how to grade properly.

 

7: In no way does this affect the CGC certified market. If a Wizard First book is re-submitted, it will not get that designation and will be put in a CGC Universal label using the CGC grading scale. The two products are NOT interchangable.

 

8: This will not affect turn around times. As most of you have probably noticed, turn times are getting better. Not only that, but we have hired a new person in the Modern dept., a new customer service/recieving person, two new people in encapsulation, and the big news is that I have hired a superstar of a grader whose name most of you know and I will announce who he is later today or tomorrow.

 

See some of you in San Francisco and save me a dinner seat next to the guys with the most questions (like Garth) so I can get you even more info to post here about CGC.

 

Later,

Steve

[dam60]

With all the unscrupulous people out there, I sincerely don't get what's wrong with this program.

 

My beef, is that CGC should be grading comics, and not looking to create new "manufactured collectibles" when the mood hits them.

 

This Wizard First program is another example of this, and it seems that if you wave enough cash in front of CGC (as with Chuck getting MH2 on his books, or Dallas Stephens), then they act like a puppet on a string.

 

Understood - but if you are in the market for a high grade book with a verified signature this fills that void

[joe_collector]

Understood - but if you are in the market for a high grade book with a verified signature this fills that void

 

Assuming you're not a Kirby fan.

[Marvelous]

I will be taking apologies from everyone who doubted me now starting with JC, MK, and Foolkiller. This one must really make you guys feel inadequate. I am trying not to gloat here.

 

Actually, I find this part even scarier for CGC.

 

After all, CGC has agreed to a patently-insane, Wizard-orchestrated scheme, that only the similarly-insane Marvelous didn't think was an April Fool's joke.

 

The End is Near.

 

Let it all out JC. Tell us all how foolish you feel. Show a little humility, it is good for the soul. Go have a good cry with the other doubters who ribbed me earlier this month.

 

I don't know, but for some reason I feel soooo good today.