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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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63,730 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, kevhtx said:

So, someone not knowing something about a subject gives license to a seller taking advantage? If thats the case, why would ebay even have it in their rules to include such info in the description. Even if "no returns" truly meant no returns in ebay world, I think there is no question or argument ebay would refund this due to reprint not being included in the description. The buyer easily has a case here and as others have pointed out, it looks like this has been returned before. Equating $125 with spending $10,000 is not comparable. The amount of research should definitely go up as the amount goes up, but thats more common sense than anything. It still doesn't give a seller license to screw someone over ethically by leaving out crucial information simply because they think the buyer should be the one to look that information up or just simply know it. If you look at other sellers for this book, you will see the word reprint in their listings. 

The listing wasn't perfect, but there are many far worse listings that require much more than just basic knowledge to see through. This listing provided the proper title, the issue date, and great pictures.

If you don't know anything and are still willing to spend large amounts of money, there are only three relevant questions:

1. When are you going to get screwed?

2. How badly are you going to get screwed?

3. How many times are you going to get screwed before you realize it?

Of course, this is all assuming the buyer didn't understand exactly what they were buying.

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On 2/20/2018 at 7:31 PM, the blob said:

He looks like a panther and his name is taken from a pretty famous name.

Sorry to sidetrack the discussion, but I'm a HUGE Black Panther fan, and I try to correct the myth about the name. The Black Panther comic book character (first published July 1966) pre-existed the establishment of the Black Panther Party (established October 1966).

In fact, Marvel temporarily changed his name to the Black Leopard to disassociate him from the group. It obviously didn't stick and they changed it back.

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18 hours ago, Bird said:

Bloodshot 1 heating up in 9.8. At least this copy is

https://www.ebay.com/itm/263491479358?_trksid=p2380057.m570.l5999&_trkparms=gh1g%3DI263491479358.N36.S2.R1.TR1

 

I sold 20 beautiful raw copies last week for $3 each but I may need to toss a few in a pile for cgc. I got 1 9.8 from my batch a year or so ago and it did not exactly fly off the shelf although I did sell it eventually (on here perhaps?).

I regularly pass on those in the 3 for $2 box, criminey, I need to buy them now?

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15 hours ago, Lazyboy said:

The listing wasn't perfect, but there are many far worse listings that require much more than just basic knowledge to see through. This listing provided the proper title, the issue date, and great pictures.

If you don't know anything and are still willing to spend large amounts of money, there are only three relevant questions:

1. When are you going to get screwed?

2. How badly are you going to get screwed?

3. How many times are you going to get screwed before you realize it?

Of course, this is all assuming the buyer didn't understand exactly what they were buying.

Mom buys this for kid for 13th birthday or whatever because he can't stop raving abount BP, thinking it is the real deal. Comic collecting ruined for kid, mom won't have anything to do with it, etc. I look at a listing like this, which is obviously meant to not be fraudulent, but to trick the clueless, and I see something bad for the hobby/industry.

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1 hour ago, Alondo said:

Sorry to sidetrack the discussion, but I'm a HUGE Black Panther fan, and I try to correct the myth about the name. The Black Panther comic book character (first published July 1966) pre-existed the establishment of the Black Panther Party (established October 1966).

In fact, Marvel temporarily changed his name to the Black Leopard to disassociate him from the group. It obviously didn't stick and they changed it back.

The Black Panthers, I believe were the 66th regiment, a famous black military unit in WW II.  I dunno if the BP party took the name from that. Probably. Regardless, people today recognize the name because of the BP party.

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3 hours ago, the blob said:

The Black Panthers, I believe were the 66th regiment, a famous black military unit in WW II.  I dunno if the BP party took the name from that. Probably. Regardless, people today recognize the name because of the BP party.

The 761st Tank Battalion wasnt "famous" as Black Panthers, so this statement is wrong:

On 2/20/2018 at 7:31 PM, the blob said:

He looks like a panther and his name is taken from a pretty famous name

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4 hours ago, the blob said:

Mom buys this for kid for 13th birthday or whatever because he can't stop raving abount BP, thinking it is the real deal. Comic collecting ruined for kid, mom won't have anything to do with it, etc.

Why? Is the kid an expert and already owns the story in some format? Does she tell him how much she paid for the gift? (Who does that?) Was the price actually too high?

 

Buying collectibles as a gift for somebody else is fraught with peril. You can do it if:

  • You know exactly what they want and can properly identify it
  • You have a good understanding of the hobby and what they have and what they would like

but it is a very difficult thing to do. And that's only about choosing the right item, not pricing.

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1 hour ago, Aweandlorder said:

The 761st Tank Battalion wasnt "famous" as Black Panthers, so this statement is wrong:

HOw old are you? Were you even alive in 1966? My father was a Marine in WW II. Although he served in the Pacific, he knew about them. He was irritated that the BP Party used the name because he figured they were all communists.

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33 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Why? Is the kid an expert and already owns the story in some format? Does she tell him how much she paid for the gift? (Who does that?) Was the price actually too high?

 

Buying collectibles as a gift for somebody else is fraught with peril. You can do it if:

  • You know exactly what they want and can properly identify it
  • You have a good understanding of the hobby and what they have and what they would like

but it is a very difficult thing to do. And that's only about choosing the right item, not pricing.

Be a decent person and don't word listings in a way that you know is going to confuse a decent % of the people looking at it. Pretty simple. The purchase is going to get cancelled, a credit card company called, or returned via ebay's "I didn't get what was described" policy if they figure it out, so there is downside.

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5 minutes ago, the blob said:

Be a decent person and don't word listings in a way that you know is going to confuse a decent % of the people looking at it. Pretty simple. The purchase is going to get cancelled, a credit card company called, or returned via ebay's "I didn't get what was described" policy if they figure it out, so there is downside.

Agree 100%. Seller's should not assume that the buyer is a collector and knows everything about the item. They should assume that the buyer is a novice and needs more information. That will help avoid issues like returns and negative feedback. It will also most likely gain the seller a follower and possibly get the buyer more interested in the hobby if they have a good experience. It's pretty clear. 

This is not in any way saying buyers should not go into a sale without knowing what they are buying. They should absolutely research what they are buying. But, that doesn't take away the responsibility of the seller to still provide as much info as they can to make sure the buyer knows what they are buying. They shouldn't just leave that responsibility up to the buyer. 

Deceptively leaving out info and describing it as something it is not (the first appearance of black panther without saying it is a reprint) in the title like this seller is doing is absolutely unethical and is why ebay has rules against it. It's an easy win for a buyer in a case against them.

Since it was relisted 8 days after the initial sale, that is probably what happened versus the buyer simply asking to cancel. Just a guess though.

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23 minutes ago, the blob said:

HOw old are you? Were you even alive in 1966? My father was a Marine in WW II. Although he served in the Pacific, he knew about them. He was irritated that the BP Party used the name because he figured they were all communists.

Dont give me the "how old are you" routine when youre caught in a lie

The 761st Tank Battalion were FAR less known back then than they were now. Definitely not "famous" then, nor now.

The only reason why they are known today (to certain people who google black panthers probably just like you did), NOT famous, is BECAUSE of the Black Panther activist group

 

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29 minutes ago, the blob said:

HOw old are you? Were you even alive in 1966? My father was a Marine in WW II. Although he served in the Pacific, he knew about them. He was irritated that the BP Party used the name because he figured they were all communists.

Alternatively it was named after the Lowndes County Freedom Organization, a political party which used the black panther as its logo.

https://www.quora.com/Where-did-the-Black-Panther-Party-get-their-name

https://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/No-Black-Panther-Was-Not-Named-After-the-12627366.php

 

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11 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

Dont give me the "how old are you" routine when youre caught in a lie

The 761st Tank Battalion were FAR less known back then than they were now. Definitely not "famous" then, nor now.

The only reason why they are known today (to certain people who google black panthers probably just like you did), NOT famous, is BECAUSE of the Black Panther activist group

 

I assume the party was named after the military unit because that's what my veteran father thought, and he was well aware of the exploits of black military units in WW II, that perhaps didn't get as much white press as they should have. I consider them famous because this sort of stuff was taught in my liberal NYC public school. Despite being paranoid about commies, he was pretty enlightened on racial issues for a guy born in 1924. You can have a seance to discuss it with him, he's been dead a long time. Based on what exnihilo posted, maybe he was wrong. Won't be the first time I find out he was wrong about something after he is dead.

So when do you think the Tuskegee airmen became famous? Before or after the internet?

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2 minutes ago, the blob said:

I assume the party was named after the military unit because that's what my veteran father thought, and he was well aware of the exploits of black military units in WW II, that perhaps didn't get as much white press as they should have. I consider them famous because this sort of stuff was taught in my liberal NYC public school. Despite being paranoid about commies, he was pretty enlightened on racial issues for a guy born in 1924. You can have a seance to discuss it with him, he's been dead a long time. Based on what exnihilo posted, maybe he was wrong. Won't be the first time I find out he was wrong about something after he is dead.

So when do you think the Tuskegee airmen became famous? Before or after the internet?

You can write a whole essay about them and your life story. But what you really need to look up is the word "famous" in the dictionary 

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12 minutes ago, Aweandlorder said:

You can write a whole essay about them and your life story. But what you really need to look up is the word "famous" in the dictionary 

Sorry, i grew up in a house where my folks were both well educated, people read, we had newspapers, and watched a lot of pbs. So i supposs i have a distorted view of what the normal person might have been aware of.

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It's been reported by comic creator' alike that black panther did not come from an "organization" it was before it's time with the one group and why they changed the name to leapord and it was mentioned that they just liked the name. It was a Stan Lee Facebook post or I'd link it. Perhaps I can find what Stan linked. 

 

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
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