Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[mr_highgrade]

3 minutes ago, divad said:

HG - What do you make of this considering the 10th and 12th editions?

They were all over the map. I don't think they really knew which direction to go to.

[500Club]

1 hour ago, divad said:

2 hours ago, mr_highgrade said:

Here's the 11th Edition from 1981-1982

 

    

HG - What do you make of this considering the 10th and 12th editions?

I think they unilaterally decided to establish prices based on feedback about the appearance in 180, and subsequently got further feedback from market advisors that 181 was the book being more sought after.  The fact they list 181 there as a cameo speaks to a pretty poor effort at actually looking at the books. 

In fact, they did it again just recently with Batman 655 and 656.  Two years ago they listed 656 at a higher price, and last year corrected that, almost certainly based on market feedback.

[Juno Beach]

42 minutes ago, 500Club said:

I think they unilaterally decided to establish prices based on feedback about the appearance in 180, and subsequently got further feedback from market advisors that 181 was the book being more sought after.  The fact they list 181 there as a cameo speaks to a pretty poor effort at actually looking at the books. 

In fact, they did it again just recently with Batman 655 and 656.  Two years ago they listed 656 at a higher price, and last year corrected that, almost certainly based on market feedback.

I think that they are noting that 182 has a Wolverine cameo? It's not really clear. 

[PhilipB2k17]

14 hours ago, divad said:

Actually, only you and RMA are wrong on that point. Both OSG nos. 8 and 10 list IH #181 as the first appearance of Wolverine.

 

Yep. 

[PhilipB2k17]

2 hours ago, Juno Beach said:

I think that they are noting that 182 has a Wolverine cameo? It's not really clear. 

They listed182 as a cameo based on the hyphen. I realize folks are out of practice on reading OSG, so I’ll let it slide. 

[PhilipB2k17]

The market at some point decided that IH 180 wasn’t the “real” first appearance of Wolverine, and that his first “full” appearance was 181. I think this was a post-hoc rationalization. Maybe because people wanted the Cover to 181 to represent the 1st Wovly story. Who knows  

 

Edited September 18, 2018 by PhilipB2k17

[PhilipB2k17]

5 hours ago, mr_highgrade said:

They were all over the map. I don't think they really knew which direction to go to.

The values of the books was in flux in the late 70’s to early 80’s. And 181 is coasting on momentum now. No objective reason it should be more valuable than 180 based upon the normal canons of the hobby. 

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

14 hours ago, Michael Browning said:

Yes.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARNAGE-MIND-BOMB-Donny-Cates-Venom-Tie-In-GORGEOUS-NM-1996-Low-Print-Run/132775529057?hash=item1eea09ca61:g:vAUAAOSwd6pbld7s

That's cooling down. They were going for over $100.

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

3 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The market at some point decided that IH 180 wasn’t the “real” first appearance of Wolverine, and that his first “full” appearance was 181. I think this was a post-hoc rationalization. Maybe because people wanted the Cover to 181 to represent the 1st Wovly story. Who knows  

 

The market doesn't decide what the first appearance is. The market decides what is more desirable by voting with dollars.

[Nico Esq]

I talked to a couple dealers at a con in cinci this weekend and asked them "what happened to the CGC boards?"  They suggested that there is a conscious effort by big players in the comic retail market to keep certain information off the boards.  I certainly don’t know to what extent this true or false.  

Regardless, I would like to discuss what people are buying and what people are selling and why in an intelligent way.  So as not to contribute to the downward spiral of bickering and hopeless sarcasm and in an effort to be the change I want to see in the boards - these are some observations off the top of my head after spending the weekend at a convention (please forgive me for using CGC's definition of modern 1975-present for purposes of this post, but it seems to make more sense to do that):

(1) the reddit rumor mill is pumping up Captain Britain / Black Knight keys; with specific emphasis on Marvel Team Up 65.  It sounds too good to be true, and I'm not buying.  I hope the movie gets made and it’s amazing.   

(2) Captain Marvel continues to rule the day.  All of the leaked characters' keys continue to do well.  Avengers 346 (Starforce) appears to be doing better than  Hulk 418 / 419 (Talos the Tamed).  There is obviously some interest in Inhumand 11, Quasar 32 (Korath); Ms. Marvel 9 (Deathbird); Quasar 9 (Captain Atlas); Ultimus (Wonder Man 7); and Cap Vol. 3, 8 (Bron Char), but most of the buzz at the con was around Amazing Spider-Man Annual 16 (Monica Rambeau).  Of course all iterations of Carol Danvers continue to perform well with Ms. Marvel 1 and Avenging Spider-Man 9 leading the way.  I remain shocked with the performance of Captain Marvel 17 2nd print (Kamala Khan) which continues strong sales (a 9.8 just sold for $1,277.  I don't believe that Kamala Khan is necessarily where I will invest, but I respect the price tag its demanding.   

(3) It was Batman Day so I may have Batman on the brain, but people were buying and selling Bat books.  1st appearance of Talia al Ghul was sought after as an undervalued key.  There were no original Detective 880s to be found.  Detective 871 (2nd Print) - is increasing popular and increasingly difficult to find (I'm on the verge of posting about it in the WTB section as I no longer have a personal copy).  In light of the variant reprint of 880, it appears that some collectors are moving towards 871 and that the red cover on the 2nd print is the book that few people are talking about publically, but many are trying to buy privately.  I suspect this book will perform as well as or better than its 1st print counter part for some period of time in the future.  Harley Quinn 1st appearance 2K in 9.8.  I saw one copy and the dealer wasn’t interested in moving from that price tag in light of the recent Ebay sale for that amount.  I was surprised that the White Knight comic was on people’s walls and selling.  I was fearful that I was the only person who loved this series.  That being said, I saw no slabbed copies and don’t see that book moving well on ebay.  I can’t tell if dealers are over invested, hope that others love the book as much as they do or what exactly was the impetus for displaying these books so prominently.   

(4)   Donny Cates - This guy performs.  He legitimately has the midas touch (e.g., he champions Carnage Mind Bomb and the book blows up).  Cosmic Ghostrider stays hot with particular emphasis on Thanos 13 sans the lenticular cover.  Not sure why Redneck doesn’t sell anymore.  I really enjoy the title, but what he is doing with the marvel mashups is really popular right now.  

(5) It's a venom nation and that includes Carnage and most of the rest of the symbiotes.  I'm excited about Tom Hardy's portrayal of character more than I am disappointed about the film straying from the cannon origin story.  I'm real interested in where the heat will go after the final credits role on opening weekend.  I anticipate big numbers at the box office and that should mean continued big numbers on ebay. Concomitantly, Venom 165, Edge of Spidergeddon 2, etc. continue to sell well.  There's a lot of heat around What If 105 (1998) and the Gwen Stacey, Silk and Miles Morales keys continue to do well.  I noticed a number of dealers pushing the 1st appearance of Spider-Woman (Marvel Spotlight 32 (1977) as an undervalued spec book.  I did not pull the trigger.   
-- 

It is an increasingly interesting market for me.  It's hard for me to reconcile why properties like Legion (who has a good TV show even if it has little do with his comic character) and comics like Umbrella Academy (which is coming to netflix) see little to no heat, but books like Captain Britain take off because of a reddit rumor.  

[Mapleleafvann]

1 hour ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

The market doesn't decide what the first appearance is. The market decides what is more desirable by voting with dollars.

It seems these "decisions" on what is a cameo and first full appearance should have some established parameters....especially in such a well established hobby.  Further muddying the waters is the whole argument about the Batman Who Laughs.  Apparently, Snyder even says that the first appearance is in Dark Nights Metal #2....not TT12, but the slab labels claim the opposite.  Strange.  What does the actual writer know anyways?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Mapleleafvann

[seanfingh]

48 minutes ago, Nico Esq said:

I talked to a couple dealers at a con in cinci this weekend and asked them "what happened to the CGC boards?"  They suggested that there is a conscious effort by big players in the comic retail market to keep certain information off the boards.  I certainly don’t know to what extent this true or false.  

Regardless, I would like to discuss what people are buying and what people are selling and why in an intelligent way.  So as not to contribute to the downward spiral of bickering and hopeless sarcasm and in an effort to be the change I want to see in the boards - these are some observations off the top of my head after spending the weekend at a convention (please forgive me for using CGC's definition of modern 1975-present for purposes of this post, but it seems to make more sense to do that):

(1) the reddit rumor mill is pumping up Captain Britain / Black Knight keys; with specific emphasis on Marvel Team Up 65.  It sounds too good to be true, and I'm not buying.  I hope the movie gets made and it’s amazing.   

(2) Captain Marvel continues to rule the day.  All of the leaked characters' keys continue to do well.  Avengers 346 (Starforce) appears to be doing better than  Hulk 418 / 419 (Talos the Tamed).  There is obviously some interest in Inhumand 11, Quasar 32 (Korath); Ms. Marvel 9 (Deathbird); Quasar 9 (Captain Atlas); Ultimus (Wonder Man 7); and Cap Vol. 3, 8 (Bron Char), but most of the buzz at the con was around Amazing Spider-Man Annual 16 (Monica Rambeau).  Of course all iterations of Carol Danvers continue to perform well with Ms. Marvel 1 and Avenging Spider-Man 9 leading the way.  I remain shocked with the performance of Captain Marvel 17 2nd print (Kamala Khan) which continues strong sales (a 9.8 just sold for $1,277.  I don't believe that Kamala Khan is necessarily where I will invest, but I respect the price tag its demanding.   

(3) It was Batman Day so I may have Batman on the brain, but people were buying and selling Bat books.  1st appearance of Talia al Ghul was sought after as an undervalued key.  There were no original Detective 880s to be found.  Detective 871 (2nd Print) - is increasing popular and increasingly difficult to find (I'm on the verge of posting about it in the WTB section as I no longer have a personal copy).  In light of the variant reprint of 880, it appears that some collectors are moving towards 871 and that the red cover on the 2nd print is the book that few people are talking about publically, but many are trying to buy privately.  I suspect this book will perform as well as or better than its 1st print counter part for some period of time in the future.  Harley Quinn 1st appearance 2K in 9.8.  I saw one copy and the dealer wasn’t interested in moving from that price tag in light of the recent Ebay sale for that amount.  I was surprised that the White Knight comic was on people’s walls and selling.  I was fearful that I was the only person who loved this series.  That being said, I saw no slabbed copies and don’t see that book moving well on ebay.  I can’t tell if dealers are over invested, hope that others love the book as much as they do or what exactly was the impetus for displaying these books so prominently.   

(4)   Donny Cates - This guy performs.  He legitimately has the midas touch (e.g., he champions Carnage Mind Bomb and the book blows up).  Cosmic Ghostrider stays hot with particular emphasis on Thanos 13 sans the lenticular cover.  Not sure why Redneck doesn’t sell anymore.  I really enjoy the title, but what he is doing with the marvel mashups is really popular right now.  

(5) It's a venom nation and that includes Carnage and most of the rest of the symbiotes.  I'm excited about Tom Hardy's portrayal of character more than I am disappointed about the film straying from the cannon origin story.  I'm real interested in where the heat will go after the final credits role on opening weekend.  I anticipate big numbers at the box office and that should mean continued big numbers on ebay. Concomitantly, Venom 165, Edge of Spidergeddon 2, etc. continue to sell well.  There's a lot of heat around What If 105 (1998) and the Gwen Stacey, Silk and Miles Morales keys continue to do well.  I noticed a number of dealers pushing the 1st appearance of Spider-Woman (Marvel Spotlight 32 (1977) as an undervalued spec book.  I did not pull the trigger.   
-- 

It is an increasingly interesting market for me.  It's hard for me to reconcile why properties like Legion (who has a good TV show even if it has little do with his comic character) and comics like Umbrella Academy (which is coming to netflix) see little to no heat, but books like Captain Britain take off because of a reddit rumor.  

via Imgflip Meme Generator

[awakeintheashes]

[500Club]

9 hours ago, Juno Beach said:

10 hours ago, 500Club said:

I think they unilaterally decided to establish prices based on feedback about the appearance in 180, and subsequently got further feedback from market advisors that 181 was the book being more sought after.  The fact they list 181 there as a cameo speaks to a pretty poor effort at actually looking at the books. 

In fact, they did it again just recently with Batman 655 and 656.  Two years ago they listed 656 at a higher price, and last year corrected that, almost certainly based on market feedback.

I think that they are noting that 182 has a Wolverine cameo? It's not really clear. 

Yeah, possible...    Like you say, it's an ambiguous listing.

Are there any long term dealers here who want to chime in on what they actually saw circa 1979-1982 in terms of prices being paid?  WAs there a brief period 180 commanded higher prices?  Did 182 ever fetch similar prices to 181?  I started collecting in 1980, and to my recollection, 180 and 182 were always secondary books to 181.

[500Club]

4 hours ago, Les Tunes said:

7 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The values of the books was in flux in the late 70’s to early 80’s. And 181 is coasting on momentum now. No objective reason it should be more valuable than 180 based upon the normal canons of the hobby. 

When I see someone who can't figure out the difference between the two I assume they're not much of a reader, and therefore cannot fathom a reader's mentality.  #181 Is worth more because it is a better read than #180. Imagine me as a 10 year old back in the day with $1.50 in my pocket, and I have to choose between a 180 for $1 or a 181 for $1.50. As a huge Wolverine fan, which would I choose? The book he appears in one small panel at the very end or a whole book (with cover) of Wolverine fighting The Hulk and Wendigo. Pretty easy to see why 181 wins.

This.

The hobby arose on the back of reading.  Kids wanted to read issues they missed, and wanted to read issues about characters they liked.  That's what drove desirability, and thus value.

[500Club]

4 hours ago, Nico Esq said:

 I was surprised that the White Knight comic was on people’s walls and selling.  I was fearful that I was the only person who loved this series.  That being said, I saw no slabbed copies and don’t see that book moving well on ebay.  I can’t tell if dealers are over invested, hope that others love the book as much as they do or what exactly was the impetus for displaying these books so prominently.

BWK has been grassroots popular since its release.  I bought a couple extra copies of number 1, and they sold quickly over the summer.

[divad]

4 hours ago, Nico Esq said:

 

I talked to a couple dealers at a con in cinci this weekend and asked them "what happened to the CGC boards?"  They suggested that there is a conscious effort by big players in the comic retail market to keep certain information off the boards.  I certainly don’t know to what extent this true or false.

 

Let's take these one  at a time: It's pretty far-fetched that a couple of dealers at the cinci con would know "what happened to the CGC boards?" "[A] conscious effort by big players in the comic retail market to keep certain information off the boards," smacks of a conspiracy theorist, and absolutely makes no sense. The truest statement above is:  "I certainly don’t know to what extent this true or false."

 

[divad]

7 hours ago, Nico Esq said:

Regardless, I would like to discuss what people are buying and what people are selling and why in an intelligent way.  So as not to contribute to the downward spiral of bickering and hopeless sarcasm and in an effort to be the change I want to see in the boards - these are some observations off the top of my head after spending the weekend at a convention (please forgive me for using CGC's definition of modern 1975-present for purposes of this post, but it seems to make more sense to do that).

Ok, Ghandi. (With all due respect.)

Edited September 18, 2018 by divad

[divad]

5 hours ago, Nico Esq said:

(1) the reddit rumor mill is pumping up Captain Britain / Black Knight keys; with specific emphasis on Marvel Team Up 65.  It sounds too good to be true, and I'm not buying.  I hope the movie gets made and it’s amazing.  

WhoTF believes anything they read on reddit? But I'm all for any rumor mill that will take Captain Britain or BlackKnight keys off my hands at a respectable price. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy them both, but they aren't even in my selling radar at current prices. I would much sooner go back and just read them. 

[fastballspecial]

5 hours ago, Nico Esq said:

I talked to a couple dealers at a con in cinci this weekend and asked them "what happened to the CGC boards?"  They suggested that there is a conscious effort by big players in the comic retail market to keep certain information off the boards.  I certainly don’t know to what extent this true or false.  

Regardless, I would like to discuss what people are buying and what people are selling and why in an intelligent way.  So as not to contribute to the downward spiral of bickering and hopeless sarcasm and in an effort to be the change I want to see in the boards - these are some observations off the top of my head after spending the weekend at a convention (please forgive me for using CGC's definition of modern 1975-present for purposes of this post, but it seems to make more sense to do that):

(1) the reddit rumor mill is pumping up Captain Britain / Black Knight keys; with specific emphasis on Marvel Team Up 65.  It sounds too good to be true, and I'm not buying.  I hope the movie gets made and it’s amazing.   

(2) Captain Marvel continues to rule the day.  All of the leaked characters' keys continue to do well.  Avengers 346 (Starforce) appears to be doing better than  Hulk 418 / 419 (Talos the Tamed).  There is obviously some interest in Inhumand 11, Quasar 32 (Korath); Ms. Marvel 9 (Deathbird); Quasar 9 (Captain Atlas); Ultimus (Wonder Man 7); and Cap Vol. 3, 8 (Bron Char), but most of the buzz at the con was around Amazing Spider-Man Annual 16 (Monica Rambeau).  Of course all iterations of Carol Danvers continue to perform well with Ms. Marvel 1 and Avenging Spider-Man 9 leading the way.  I remain shocked with the performance of Captain Marvel 17 2nd print (Kamala Khan) which continues strong sales (a 9.8 just sold for $1,277.  I don't believe that Kamala Khan is necessarily where I will invest, but I respect the price tag its demanding.   

(3) It was Batman Day so I may have Batman on the brain, but people were buying and selling Bat books.  1st appearance of Talia al Ghul was sought after as an undervalued key.  There were no original Detective 880s to be found.  Detective 871 (2nd Print) - is increasing popular and increasingly difficult to find (I'm on the verge of posting about it in the WTB section as I no longer have a personal copy).  In light of the variant reprint of 880, it appears that some collectors are moving towards 871 and that the red cover on the 2nd print is the book that few people are talking about publically, but many are trying to buy privately.  I suspect this book will perform as well as or better than its 1st print counter part for some period of time in the future.  Harley Quinn 1st appearance 2K in 9.8.  I saw one copy and the dealer wasn’t interested in moving from that price tag in light of the recent Ebay sale for that amount.  I was surprised that the White Knight comic was on people’s walls and selling.  I was fearful that I was the only person who loved this series.  That being said, I saw no slabbed copies and don’t see that book moving well on ebay.  I can’t tell if dealers are over invested, hope that others love the book as much as they do or what exactly was the impetus for displaying these books so prominently.   

(4)   Donny Cates - This guy performs.  He legitimately has the midas touch (e.g., he champions Carnage Mind Bomb and the book blows up).  Cosmic Ghostrider stays hot with particular emphasis on Thanos 13 sans the lenticular cover.  Not sure why Redneck doesn’t sell anymore.  I really enjoy the title, but what he is doing with the marvel mashups is really popular right now.  

(5) It's a venom nation and that includes Carnage and most of the rest of the symbiotes.  I'm excited about Tom Hardy's portrayal of character more than I am disappointed about the film straying from the cannon origin story.  I'm real interested in where the heat will go after the final credits role on opening weekend.  I anticipate big numbers at the box office and that should mean continued big numbers on ebay. Concomitantly, Venom 165, Edge of Spidergeddon 2, etc. continue to sell well.  There's a lot of heat around What If 105 (1998) and the Gwen Stacey, Silk and Miles Morales keys continue to do well.  I noticed a number of dealers pushing the 1st appearance of Spider-Woman (Marvel Spotlight 32 (1977) as an undervalued spec book.  I did not pull the trigger.   
-- 

It is an increasingly interesting market for me.  It's hard for me to reconcile why properties like Legion (who has a good TV show even if it has little do with his comic character) and comics like Umbrella Academy (which is coming to netflix) see little to no heat, but books like Captain Britain take off because of a reddit rumor.  

Thank  you for this I will have some more follow up later today when I have more time.