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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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Started by thirdgreenham,

63,751 posts in this topic

GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

Just leave it alone he can go on forever. Most of us understand the point you are trying to make. The estimates are a guess at best. Its a good
 indicator, but no where near precise. I use them when looking at a book to give me an idea of a ballpark figure and leave it at that. 

Anyone trying to do more than that is just an educated or non-educated guess.

  

 

Yeah, I get it. I thought laying out all of disclaimers ahead of time might help avoid this, but I was mistaken.

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Mapleleafvann

Mapleleafvann

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

Just leave it alone he can go on forever. Most of us understand the point you are trying to make. The estimates are a guess at best. Its a good indicator, but no where near precise. I use them when looking at a book to give me an idea of a ballpark figure and leave it at that. 

Anyone trying to do more than that is just an educated or non-educated guess which can be dangerous with the wrong
individual or website.

 

 

The best approach to this whole segment that has been posted yet.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, fastballspecial said:

Just leave it alone he can go on forever. Most of us understand the point you are trying to make. The estimates are a guess at best. Its a good indicator, but no where near precise. I use them when looking at a book to give me an idea of a ballpark figure and leave it at that. 

Anyone trying to do more than that is just an educated or non-educated guess which can be dangerous with the wrong
individual or website.

 

 

1. You don't speak for anyone but yourself. Invoking "us" is just a way to bolster...artifically...your own opinion.

2. You should keep your opinions about others to yourself. I don't denigrate you when you go on about the nonsense that bothers you. You can extend the same courtesy. Really. You can't seem to understand that "going on" requires at least two parties. Funny, that.

3. You just completely agreed with me.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Explain to me why you think it's fair to criticize my use of "huge" or "flooding" when you're using "bunch" to back up your claim. Note that you made your claim before mine.

And you're trying to substantiate your claim that "thousands" of books were available in the variant dump by making another unsubstantiated claim, that the books were produced in the thousands?

I have not used "a bunch" to back up anything. Both you and Bleeding Cool used qualitative words, to make opposing points. Pointing that out isn't "backing up my claim." 

If you are unwilling to put a number to your claims, then you won't answer the question. Pretty simple.

As for the rest....this has already been addressed. See above.

You ought to decide if you want a real discussion, or just a petty argument to score points. If you want a real discussion, you should cut out all snarky comments, "joking" or not. Your choice.

 

 

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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Aweandlorder

Aweandlorder

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Brock said:

So, I’m here in the Dominican Republic and decide to check in a see what’s what back home, and have a HOLY SMOKES THERE’S TEN NEW PAGES OF MODERNS HEATING UP THE MARKET MUST BE GOING CRAZY moment...

Sadly, it was short-lived.

Oh man... since this thread has already side-tracked so badly, do you mind sharing some pics of hot babes from DR?

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

I'll note again that I'm looking for a way to best determine the number of copies that might be out there based on the information available. I think the Comichron numbers are a good starting point, 

 

Oh for god's sakes...

Lets' try this again.

Superman Unchained #1 1:300 Jim Lee Sketch Variant - Let's say the regular copy sells 100,000 copies.

How many retailers in the United States can truly afford to go ahead and order at least 300 copies to get this? Maybe 100 different accounts? (Many of the bigger retailers have multiple Diamond Accounts) So let's say those 100 shop accounts all order on average 500 copies, so they get 100 variants. That's 50,000 regular copies and 100 variants.

That's already thrown your math off. 100,000 divided by 300 is 333.

But so far they only have 100.... where are the rest of the books sold? 

If middle store, or 500 accounts around the country order 35,000 copies - (an average of 70 per account) - no variants there

And the other smaller 1400 accounts around the country order the other 15,000 copies - (an average of 10 per small shop) - no variants there either

You're predicting 333 variants and what we have here is only 100

 

Do you see?

You're not even close.

 

 

Think 333 is close... just because? Then where did 500 more of the book come from at the Diamond Retailer Luncheon that was given out for free?

The truth is... we have no idea how many they print, and no matter what math idea you come up with, you just can not know.

The majority of Diamond Accounts in the United States can't buy 300 of any comic without losing big time on it... only a handful can... so dividing the total number of printed KNOWN sold copies (not including all the extras) by the 1:25, 1:300, etc. is completely worthless... it gives no indication whatsoever of how many there are because you have absolutely no idea how many of each a shop buys in the first place.

Edited by Chuck Gower
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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted

Oh AND you can't use those Comichron numbers because the variants numbers are a PART of the print run numbers in the FIRST PLACE!!!!

Another thing jaydoh used to argue that he was proven completely wrong about.

Remember that, champ? When you used to...ha ha ha... used to argue that variants WEREN'T a part of the... ha ha ha ho ho ho...

It's almost too funny...

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Oh for god's sakes...

Lets' try this again.

Superman Unchained #1 1:300 Jim Lee Sketch Variant - Let's say the regular copy sells 100,000 copies.

How many retailers in the United States can truly afford to go ahead and order at least 300 copies to get this? Maybe 100 different accounts? (Many of the bigger retailers have multiple Diamond Accounts) So let's say those 100 shop accounts all order on average 500 copies, so they get 100 variants. That's 50,000 regular copies and 100 variants.

That's already thrown your math off. 100,000 divided by 300 is 333.

But so far they only have 100.... where are the rest of the books sold? 

If middle store, or 500 accounts around the country order 35,000 copies - (an average of 70 per account) - no variants there

And the other smaller 1400 accounts around the country order the other 15,000 copies - (an average of 10 per small shop) - no variants there either

You're predicting 333 variants and what we have here is only 100

 

Do you see?

You're not even close.

 

 

Think 333 is close... just because? Then were did 500 more of the book come from at the Diamond Retailer Luncheon that was given out for free?

The truth is... we have no idea how many they print, and no matter what math idea you come up with, you just can not know.

The majority of Diamond Accounts in the United States can't buy 300 of any comic without losing big time on it... only a handful can... so dividing the total number of printed KNOWN sold copies (not including all the extras) by the 1:25, 1:300, etc. is completely worthless... it gives no indication whatsoever of how many there are because you have absolutely no idea how many of each a shop buys in the first place.

Maybe try reading everything I wrote rather than selectively responding to a single line of it. Because some of what you mention was directly addressed.

One thing I do want to address though; if a retailer is big enough to order 500 copies of a book, I would think it's possible they're going to have at least 2 customers in the bunch that are willing to pony up for high-end variants that would make it worth their while to up the order to qualify for another. Either way, I point out in the one comment you chose to address that it's a starting point. Apply a little critical reasoning and you can adjust the estimate. Pay attention to chatter about giveaways and you can adjust it again. The point is arriving at a *best* guess.

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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Oh AND you can't use those Comichron numbers because the variants numbers are a PART of the print run numbers in the FIRST PLACE!!!!

Another thing jaydoh used to argue that he was proven completely wrong about.

Remember that, champ? When you used to...ha ha ha... used to argue that variants WEREN'T a part of the... ha ha ha ho ho ho...

It's almost too funny...

:roflmao:

He dug his heels in so far, I pictured a waterskier still holding the rope, being pulled along with water up to his neck.

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fastballspecial

fastballspecial

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:
3 hours ago, fastballspecial said:

and leave it at that. 

Anyone trying to do more than that is just an educated or non-educated guess which can be dangerous with the wrong
individual or website.

 

 

1. You don't speak for anyone but yourself. Invoking "us" is just a way to bolster...artifically...your own opinion.

2. You should keep your opinions about others to yourself. I don't denigrate you when you go on about the nonsense that bothers you. You can extend the same courtesy. Really. You can't seem to understand that "going on" requires at least two parties. Funny, that.

3. You just completely agreed with me.

lol

 

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Prince Namor

Prince Namor

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, GeeksAreMyPeeps said:

Maybe try reading everything I wrote rather than selectively responding to a single line of it. Because some of what you mention was directly addressed.

One thing I do want to address though; if a retailer is big enough to order 500 copies of a book, I would think it's possible they're going to have at least 2 customers in the bunch that are willing to pony up for high-end variants that would make it worth their while to up the order to qualify for another. Either way, I point out in the one comment you chose to address that it's a starting point. Apply a little critical reasoning and you can adjust the estimate. Pay attention to chatter about giveaways and you can adjust it again. The point is arriving at a *best* guess.

 

And the point is you CAN'T arrive at a best guess.

1. Because the variant print run is INCLUDED in the numbers you're trying to DIVIDE INTO. You're already way off.

2. The 'print run' numbers aren't even ACTUAL print run numbers -they are ESTIMATED numbers based upon what is thought Diamond SALES are to retail stores. So you don't even have ALL of the information you'd need even if your over simplified equation was correct.

3. Because you have no way of knowing how many shops even qualify for a variant like that ALL of their orders added up could be a large percentage of the print run as exampled above.You're even farther off.

4. Marvel and DC are under NO obligation, law, whatever to limit what they print of a book. It makes NO DIFFERENCE to them how many they print in regards to what the 'collector' thinks. It could be considerably less, it could be considerably more. We have absolutely no way of knowing. 

Having been a retailer and going to these summits and seeing the endless amount of variant sales after the fact.... we have NO IDEA how many they print of those books. Best guess doesn't deserve the adjective 'best'.

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Second Blight

Second Blight

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, spreads said:

I have a question for Geeks....why do you care how many copies of a variant might be out there, we don't know how many copies of X-Men #1 are floating around....?   

Some people assume that a lower print run increases demand, regardless of what's inside the book. 

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, spreads said:

I have a question for Geeks....why do you care how many copies of a variant might be out there, we don't know how many copies of X-Men #1 are floating around....?   

If I'm in the market for a book, I want the best information available to determine what I'm willing to pay for it. How many might be available is a factor in that determination.

Edited by GeeksAreMyPeeps
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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

And the point is you CAN'T arrive at a best guess.

1. Because the variant print run is INCLUDED in the numbers you're trying to DIVIDE INTO. You're already way off.

2. The 'print run' numbers aren't even ACTUAL print run numbers -they are ESTIMATED numbers based upon what is thought Diamond SALES are to retail stores. So you don't even have ALL of the information you'd need even if your over simplified equation was correct.

3. Because you have no way of knowing how many shops even qualify for a variant like that ALL of their orders added up could be a large percentage of the print run as exampled above.You're even farther off.

4. Marvel and DC are under NO obligation, law, whatever to limit what they print of a book. It makes NO DIFFERENCE to them how many they print in regards to what the 'collector' thinks. It could be considerably less, it could be considerably more. We have absolutely no way of knowing. 

Having been a retailer and going to these summits and seeing the endless amount of variant sales after the fact.... we have NO IDEA how many they print of those books. Best guess doesn't deserve the adjective 'best'.

By definition, some guess is going to be the *best* guess based on the information available. It may be inaccurate, but it's better than pulling a number out of a hat.

And if you read my earlier comments you'd see that I made no claims about print runs. 

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