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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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Started by thirdgreenham,

63,751 posts in this topic

RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

No one has said that ALL the errors are faked

Red herring; nobody claimed that anyone said that.

19 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

I think you miss the point.  The point is that the foil CAN be removed and copies CAN (and have) been faked. To varying degrees, depending on the extent of the degradation of whatever embossing process was originally used.  

As stated earlier, these books are not embossed. The issue is not (and never has been) that the foil can be removed and that these can be faked. No one, throughout the entire course of the discussion, has disputed that. The issue is whether or not they can be faked in a manner that will fool CGC, which was your original claim.

23 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

And I know for a fact that CGC has graded faked ones because I know someone who sacrificed a couple dozen copies or so of what he thought were good "candidates", and made 6 of them and got them ALL graded over a year or so period.

I want to make sure I understand you correctly: you know...for a fact, meaning you can prove it...that someone has slipped by faked copies of the Venom black through CGC? Did you notify CGC at the time that someone was defrauding them and collectors? If not, why not? Who is this person who is defrauding people? Where are these faked graded copies?

 If you have proof, show it. You have a duty and an obligation to out those who are cheating others if you have direct knowledge of it. Otherwise, impugning the ability of CGC to tell a fake from a genuine on their own message board is questionable, at best. 

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divad

divad

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

If you have proof, show it. You have a duty and an obligation to out those who are cheating others if you have direct knowledge of it. Otherwise, impugning the ability of CGC to tell a fake from a genuine on their own message board is questionable, at best.

This. This is significantly different than saying they just got the label wrong. (:

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Red herring; nobody claimed that anyone said that.

As stated earlier, these books are not embossed. The issue is not (and never has been) that the foil can be removed and that these can be faked. No one, throughout the entire course of the discussion, has disputed that. The issue is whether or not they can be faked in a manner that will fool CGC, which was your original claim.

I want to make sure I understand you correctly: you know...for a fact, meaning you can prove it...that someone has slipped by faked copies of the Venom black through CGC? Did you notify CGC at the time that someone was defrauding them and collectors? If not, why not? Who is this person who is defrauding people? Where are these faked graded copies?

 If you have proof, show it. You have a duty and an obligation to out those who are cheating others if you have direct knowledge of it. Otherwise, impugning the ability of CGC to tell a fake from a genuine on their own message board is questionable, at best. 

Oh okay, so now you're acknowledging that the "error", can in fact be replicated.  Glad we agree on that now.  However....

First, you don't know what I have or have not notified CGC of.

Second, I have no "duty" or "obligation" to do anything.  

Third, this was years ago.

Fourth, CGC is far from perfect, and are subject to criticism, suggestions, etc from their customers like any business is.

Latsly, you have all the "proof" you're going to get, so consider yourself duly warned.  But in case you missed it from the two other times I said it when the topic became relevant with the sale of that sketchy looking raw copy on ebay- buyer beware on copies of that book.  (thumbsu

-J.

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paul747

paul747

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

So, you know what the answer to that is, then...

YES:foryou:

Be positive and don't get frustrated by better type-rs!

I just want someone to positively verify that they have seen or peeled the foil. I actually think the video i saw a while ago, did show the foil off, If it really is a glue issue, it could be a leftover pattern on the book that could be similar, depending on where the glue was strong on the book. If that is the defect I really don't see how CGC could ever be able to tell the difference? If that is the case someone has been making a fortune slowly making these and submitting them. I wonder if there has been a slow, but constant CGC sub of this RARE mistake? If it can be a manufactured error then it is a crime and CGC should stop recognizing it as a special book. Should say "CAN BE MANIPULATED" and should be 50 bucks,tops!

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Oh okay, so now you're acknowledging that the "error", can in fact be replicated.  Glad we agree on that now.  However....

As I have already said, several times now, these have been faked. The issue is not whether they have been faked, but whether they have been faked  in a manner that will fool CGC,

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

First, you don't know what I have or have not notified CGC of.

That is correct. That is why "Did you notify CGC at the time that someone was defrauding them and collectors?" is in the form of a question, rather than a statement...a question which you have yet to answer.

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Second, I have no "duty" or "obligation" to do anything.  

I want this on record: you, Jaydogrules, are publicly declaring that you have no duty or obligation to out cheating when you encounter it, and do not care that other people are defrauded by such cheating. Is that correct?

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Third, this was years ago.

Does time change the facts?

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Fourth, CGC is far from perfect, and are subject to criticism, suggestions, etc from their customers like any business is.

Absolutely, and you will find no one claiming otherwise. But criticizing them for mistakes, and willfully covering up fraud which you say FOR A FACT is occurring, are two entirely different things.

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Latsly, you have all the "proof" you're going to get, so consider yourself duly warned.  But in case you missed it from the two other times I said it when the topic became relevant with the sale of that sketchy looking raw copy on ebay- buyer beware on copies of that book

So, you come onto the CGC board, accuse a seller of selling a "fake" copy of Venom #1 black, accuse CGC of being incapable of detecting faked copies of same, offer absolutely no proof of any of this...and you're complicit in fraudulent activity by refusing to notify anyone that you know...for a fact, mind...that someone successfully slipped faked copies by CGC, and sitting back while others are defrauded by said fake copies.

Wow. 

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, paul747 said:

YES:foryou:

Be positive and don't get frustrated by better type-rs!

I just want someone to positively verify that they have seen or peeled the foil. I actually think the video i saw a while ago, did show the foil off, If it really is a glue issue, it could be a leftover pattern on the book that could be similar, depending on where the glue was strong on the book. If that is the defect I really don't see how CGC could ever be able to tell the difference? If that is the case someone has been making a fortune slowly making these and submitting them. I wonder if there has been a slow, but constant CGC sub of this RARE mistake? If it can be a manufactured error then it is a crime and CGC should stop recognizing it as a special book. Should say "CAN BE MANIPULATED" and should be 50 bucks,tops!

It's not a "glue" issue. Your logic doesn't follow: if these books can be faked in the manner that you and Jaydogrules are claiming, then they are damaged books, and should be worth little to nothing....not "50 bucks", tops or not. 

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paul747

paul747

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

It's not a "glue" issue. Your logic doesn't follow: if these books can be faked in the manner that you and Jaydogrules are claiming, then they are damaged books, and should be worth little to nothing....not "50 bucks", tops or not. 

I am not claiming anything ! There was a site and i don't remember exactly what it was , I discounted it and the book it self. . also many many people have claimed that people have manipulated this book. Also your logic is off the error is damage!

Edited by paul747
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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, paul747 said:

I am not claiming anything !

My apologies. I will revise the statement to "suggesting." 

Quote

also many many people have claimed that people have manipulated this book

Yes...I am one of them. The issue isn't that people have claimed that people have manipulated this book. The issue is that people have claimed that people have manipulated this book in a manner that will fool CGC.

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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paul747

paul747

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

My apologies. I will revise the statement to "suggesting." 

How many people have you seen suggest a similar thing? seriously cut the absolute proff BS  . Have you ever heard this before? from multiple sources?

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, paul747 said:
5 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

My apologies. I will revise the statement to "suggesting." 

How many people have you seen suggest a similar thing? seriously cut the absolute proff BS  . Have you ever heard this before? from multiple sources?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Sorry.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Just now, paul747 said:

Have you ever heard that this book can be manipulated?

 

8 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:
Quote

paul747 said: also many many people have claimed that people have manipulated this book

Yes...I am one of them. The issue isn't that people have claimed that people have manipulated this book. The issue is that people have claimed that people have manipulated this book in a manner that will fool CGC.

 

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the authority

the authority

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted

Making accusations without proof or evidence is unfair and potentially financially damaging to that eBay seller. 

If there are people cheating the system, make sure it and please identify them. If you don’t know for a fact, you should research it further before pointing fingers  at that person.

I don’t know the seller, don’t want the book without the red foil, and would defend you if the roles were reversed. 

“I think” should be replaced with “I can demonstrate how..”, otherwise, there is a lack of credibility involved in the debate. 

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