Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[Jaydogrules]

5 minutes ago, steveinthecity said:

Just curious where the 5% number comes from?  I've been wondering about certain print runs(particularly Archie) for several years now.  Mostly to better understand the smaller publishers business models and how to best guesstimate total copies printed vs. sell through.

Like Paul mentioned, the entire point of the FOC is to make sure publishers are printing spoil.  They typically round up to the nearest case pack, plus allow for damages. That number used to be as high as 15%, but with margins being so low now it is more like 3-5% according to multiple larger retailers. 

-J.

[paul747]

50 minutes ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

I responded to @Readcomix...not you. Nobody said this was "about me." As @500Club and others have said, your comments are inappropriate and inaccurate.

OMG

[steveinthecity]

11 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Like Paul mentioned, the entire point of the FOC is to make sure publishers are printing spoil.  They typically round up to the nearest case pack, plus allow for damages. That number used to be as high as 15%, but with margins being so low now it is more like 3-5% according to multiple larger retailers. 

-J.

I'm fine with 5% to account for shrink, but going back 5 or 10 years how would one arrive at a ballpark figure that included subs, newsstand, or any foreign distribution?   

[Jaydogrules]

1 minute ago, steveinthecity said:

I'm fine with 5% to account for shrink, but going back 5 or 10 years how would one arrive at a ballpark figure that included subs, newsstand, or any foreign distribution?   

Foreign distribution tops out at about 10%, newsstands probably less than that going back 10 years, but my data on that isn't as certain.  

-J.

[500Club]

1 minute ago, Jaydogrules said:

5 minutes ago, steveinthecity said:

I'm fine with 5% to account for shrink, but going back 5 or 10 years how would one arrive at a ballpark figure that included subs, newsstand, or any foreign distribution?   

Foreign distribution tops out at about 10%, newsstands probably less than that going back 10 years, but my data on that isn't as certain.  

I'm not sure you have ANY data.  All I've seen is a vague reference to 'some larger retailers' claiming the overprint is 5%.

[500Club]

1 hour ago, paul747 said:

JohnJacksonMiller-migratio

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Posted March 2, 2012

Note as well that the Diamond figure is probably going to be only 80-85% of the overall circulation. The drilldowns for Spider-Man, for example, include another 10,000 or so subscribers and an additional 10,000 or so copies sold on newsstands.

 

 This is a reasonable quote. from someone that's in touch with the business.   i would bet many print runs are not much over 20 percent of final order cutoff. just a guess sue me !

It is reasonable.  It also helps to illustrate how tough this proposition is.

Since the quote, newsstand sales no longer exist.  So now, we have a cut point where the actual number changes.  Any guess using Comichron has to take that into account.  In addition, the rise in popularity of comic properties worldwide has likely affected international orders and sales.  Take the orders for Aero's debut in Agents of Atlas, for example.  I think the one Phillipino shop ordered very large on the book, enough to skew percentages.

It really is a guessing game, and the unknown part of the print run varies from book to book, and pre and post newsstand.

PS: Does anyone know if store variants are included in the Comichron numbers? Or, how about when Marvel double ships, as with the above mentioned Agents of Atlas? 

[Second Blight]

20 minutes ago, 500Club said:

It is reasonable.  It also helps to illustrate how tough this proposition is.

Since the quote, newsstand sales no longer exist.  So now, we have a cut point where the actual number changes.  Any guess using Comichron has to take that into account.  In addition, the rise in popularity of comic properties worldwide has likely affected international orders and sales.  Take the orders for Aero's debut in Agents of Atlas, for example.  I think the one Phillipino shop ordered very large on the book, enough to skew percentages.

It really is a guessing game, and the unknown part of the print run varies from book to book, and pre and post newsstand.

PS: Does anyone know if store variants are included in the Comichron numbers? Or, how about when Marvel double ships, as with the above mentioned Agents of Atlas? 

Store variants are included in the Comichron order numbers. Double Ships arent, since they are freebies and not ordered by stores.

[500Club]

3 minutes ago, Second Blight said:

24 minutes ago, 500Club said:

PS: Does anyone know if store variants are included in the Comichron numbers? Or, how about when Marvel double ships, as with the above mentioned Agents of Atlas? 

Store variants are included in the Comichron order numbers. Double Ships arent, since they are freebies and not ordered by stores.

How often have these freebie overships been happening over the last couple of years?  I know of a few examples.  Any B+M store owners here to answer?

[fastballspecial]

Its the best we have to get a good estimate. The petty arguing over this is really dumb. Its the same personal vendettas. 

I can understand all this if this was a new boardie for educational purposes.

This is just 

[porcupine48]

I haven't fully read the last two pages yet but I have to post this or I'll burst

Goated   

[followtheleader]

Why is Last Avengers heating up? 

It was pretty stagnant up to recently. 

The only book that I found in my past travels on a frequent basis. 

Patrick

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 hours ago, 500Club said:

Since the quote, newsstand sales no longer exist.  So now, we have a cut point where the actual number changes. 

They also no longer offer subscriptions, because that would require they be mailed, and that would force a SOO...which we haven't seen since 2011.

1 hour ago, fastballspecial said:

ts the best we have to get a good estimate. The petty arguing over this is really dumb. Its the same personal vendettas. 

I agree with you completely. There are people who have a personal problem with correctly identifying what Comichron/Diamond numbers are, what they represent, and why it's important to use them correctly...and that problem makes no sense.

Being the "best we have"...for what it's worth (which isn't really all that much, to be honest)...is fine, so long as it's identified for what it is...especially when it's NOT a "good estimate." It's just basic honesty. 

It's incredibly bizarre that people have any problem with that. Personal vendettas, as you suggest, I guess.

1 hour ago, fastballspecial said:

I can understand all this if this was a new boardie for educational purposes.

New people read these threads all the time...whether they post or not. It is a great point of pride to hold up this board as a place where people can get the facts, rather than repeating the same endless misinformation that has been spread throughout the hobby for literal decades...long before you or I were ever involved.

Tolerating false and misleading information ruins that. We should all strive to be good stewards of the hobby we have, and not pass along misinformation...especially those of us who have been here a long time.

Don't you agree....?

[paul747]

13 hours ago, steveinthecity said:

Just curious where the 5% number comes from?  I've been wondering about certain print runs(particularly Archie) for several years now.  Mostly to better understand the smaller publishers business models and how to best guesstimate total copies printed vs. sell through.

RMA has very valid points. It definitely is an educated guess. But its your choice to figure out how to estimate it. Back in the past with statement of ownership, subscriptions, multiple distributors, foreign distribution  and newsstands it seems like it definitely is a lot harder to put a solid estimate on the print run. I believe personally that since the times of Diamond as the only distribution and the F.O. cutoff system, it is easier to take an educated guess that includes hear say from industry insiders. I would never personally put a hard number on it . I also definitely know how to discern comic cron numbers.

 

RMA wants to give the correct exact information and i don't believe that will happen. It would be great if he put some of his writing skills and energy into getting some facts from some credible sources. I have zero vendettas!

Edited September 24, 2019 by paul747

[RockMyAmadeus]

Anyone who believes the issue is about getting exact numbers is mistaken. That's never been the issue. The issue is in the repetition of the claim that Diamond and Comichron reports print runs.

Sometimes the numbers reported by Diamond ARE good estimates.

Sometimes they are wildly off.

The problem? We don't know which is which. We don't have the information necessary, because the publishers do not reveal this information. It's not an issue of "you're wrong and I'm right", and never has been. It's an issue of "none of us KNOWS, and anyone claiming otherwise has a responsibility to prove it." 

There is nothing wrong with estimates. Estimates are perfectly fine, provided they acknowledge where they come from and how they were arrived at.

Why does this matter? Because people make financial decisions based on this information, and we owe it to everyone to not repeat misinformation that could lead to people making financial decisions that could hurt them.

PS. Personal commentary about other people is not appropriate. It's completely possible to disagree...even vehemently...without making assumptions, assertions, claims, psychological analyses about others. It would be great if people put some of their writing skills and energy into remembering that, rather than making erroneous assumptions about what others do and have done. Hoping we can be done with this...

[ygogolak]

On 9/23/2019 at 1:12 PM, 500Club said:

The record is broken because people keep playing the same  song.

Comichron  numbers are not synonymous with accurate print run data.   Stop pushing that selection on the jukebox.

This guy really didn't understand the meaning behind a broken record?

[Jimmy Linguini]

21 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Like Paul mentioned, the entire point of the FOC is to make sure publishers are printing spoil.  They typically round up to the nearest case pack, plus allow for damages. That number used to be as high as 15%, but with margins being so low now it is more like 3-5% according to multiple larger retailers. 

-J.

If this conversation died four years ago when it originally started we would never have hilarious gems like this.
 

[Jaydogrules]

45 minutes ago, Jimmy Linguini said:

If this conversation died four years ago when it originally started we would never have hilarious gems like this.
 

Yes, and it is totally fine for you to not know what you don't know. 

-J.

[fastballspecial]

18 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

They also no longer offer subscriptions, because that would require they be mailed, and that would force a SOO...which we haven't seen since 2011.

I agree with you completely. There are people who have a personal problem with correctly identifying what Comichron/Diamond numbers are, what they represent, and why it's important to use them correctly...and that problem makes no sense.

Being the "best we have"...for what it's worth (which isn't really all that much, to be honest)...is fine, so long as it's identified for what it is...especially when it's NOT a "good estimate." It's just basic honesty. 

It's incredibly bizarre that people have any problem with that. Personal vendettas, as you suggest, I guess.

New people read these threads all the time...whether they post or not. It is a great point of pride to hold up this board as a place where people can get the facts, rather than repeating the same endless misinformation that has been spread throughout the hobby for literal decades...long before you or I were ever involved.

Tolerating false and misleading information ruins that. We should all strive to be good stewards of the hobby we have, and not pass along misinformation...especially those of us who have been here a long time.

Don't you agree....?

Yes I can agree on this. 

 

[TrayKnight]

3 hours ago, RockMyAmadeus said:

Anyone who believes the issue is about getting exact numbers is mistaken. That's never been the issue. The issue is in the repetition of the claim that Diamond and Comichron reports print runs.

Sometimes the numbers reported by Diamond ARE good estimates.

Sometimes they are wildly off.

The problem? We don't know which is which. We don't have the information necessary, because the publishers do not reveal this information. It's not an issue of "you're wrong and I'm right", and never has been. It's an issue of "none of us KNOWS, and anyone claiming otherwise has a responsibility to prove it." 

There is nothing wrong with estimates. Estimates are perfectly fine, provided they acknowledge where they come from and how they were arrived at.

Why does this matter? Because people make financial decisions based on this information, and we owe it to everyone to not repeat misinformation that could lead to people making financial decisions that could hurt them.

PS. Personal commentary about other people is not appropriate. It's completely possible to disagree...even vehemently...without making assumptions, assertions, claims, psychological analyses about others. It would be great if people put some of their writing skills and energy into remembering that, rather than making erroneous assumptions about what others do and have done. Hoping we can be done with this...

[Jimmy Linguini]

19 hours ago, followtheleader said:

Why is Last Avengers heating up? 

It was pretty stagnant up to recently. 

The only book that I found in my past travels on a frequent basis. 

Patrick

September 16: Bleeding Cool did an article saying Benji Parker was the main character in the new JJ Abrams Spider-man Comic and that the first appearance was Spider-girl #59.

September 21: Bleeding Cool posted an article saying Last Avengers Story #2 features Benji Parker and predated Spider-Girl #59 by ten years.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jimmy Linguini