Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[Illustrious]

Since you don't follow logic and are quite delusional as some have mentioned, I'll keep posting this as a response:

 

Gonna have to add you to the block list, if someone quotes you with a new point I'll be happy to respond. Too bad, as I have bought books from you before.

 

Captain Marvel #1 remains the book where Carol Danvers becomes Captain Marvel, and its part 1 of a two part story, released out of order, not an origin story.

 

Peace

 

If I'd known how delusional you were, that would have never happened.

 

 

[MrWeen]

This is correct. Plus on the first page Avenging #9, it says on the first page check Captain Marvel #1 on sale next week to see how it happens. This is classic ASM 252 vs SW #8.

 

CBT you would be correct if Avenging Spiderman was a cameo, but it's not. Importance of storyt and market value are irrelevant. Avenging Spider-man is First Appearance of Carl Danvers as Captain Marvel.

 

First person with a valid point of debate, and not surprisingly, unlike everything that went on last night, you've actually read the book in question.

 

I did point out already, that the 7 day offset, (of the two that go together clearly), was to help boost the sales of Captain Marvel.

 

ComicVine lists Amazing Spider-man 252 as May 1st, and Secret Wars 8 as December 1st. These books were then 7 months apart, with SW8 being a throw back in December to a story from the spring.

 

They were not "the issues" from that month for both series (apparently SW 1 was the same month as ASM252).

 

 

 

This one came out in January of 84. First black costume.

 

 

 

Also Marvel Age 19 has the Black Costume Spider-Man on a cover in October of 1984, months before SW 8.

 

I'm not trying to rip you or anything but 252 is considered the first and it just isn't. I think the iconic cover comes into play when considering how wrong the market place and most web resources are on this one. I'm still wondering how Team-Up 141 isn't mistaken more as the first black costume? From what I can gather it came out in May 1984 too.

[CBT]

 

This one came out in January of 84. First black costume.

 

Also Marvel Age 19 has the Black Costume Spider-Man on a cover in October of 1984, months before SW 8.

 

I'm not trying to rip you or anything but 252 is considered the first and it just isn't. I think the iconic cover comes into play when considering how wrong the market place and most web resources are on this one. I'm still wondering how Team-Up 141 isn't mistaken more as the first black costume? From what I can gather it came out in May 1984 too.

 

I wasnt advocating anything with respect to the black costume. I was just replying to the comparison of the two books ASM252 and SW8. They came out 7 months apart, and are related. But its not the same as one continuous story, released a few days apart (and out of order). That was the only reason I mentioned it.

 

As far as the market goes, I definitely agree, it is often wrong. I dont think either book CM1 or AS should be valuable. This thread, this board, and its offshoots, move the market a lot on books, even more so on dirt cheap books.

Edited November 6, 2014 by CBT

[MrWeen]

How about you leave this thread, go outside, and settle this like men?

 

I'm a Type 1 diabetic south paw with a bum knee and I'd still rock 90 percent of you fuks but the only person I would fight in here is Larry for pumping up an obscure cross between Bucky O hair and The Mask as the next Deadpool or Harley!

[Solar]

 

This one came out in January of 84. First black costume.

 

 

 

Also Marvel Age 19 has the Black Costume Spider-Man on a cover in October of 1984, months before SW 8.

 

I'm not trying to rip you or anything but 252 is considered the first and it just isn't. I think the iconic cover comes into play when considering how wrong the market place and most web resources are on this one. I'm still wondering how Team-Up 141 isn't mistaken more as the first black costume? From what I can gather it came out in May 1984 too.

 

Except that's not a comic book.

 

It may be the first time the black costume is depicted, but collectors want the first appearance in an actual comic book. I mean if it were even a story preview it would have a bit of appeal, but as an illustration accompanying a text piece...that's a stretch, IMO.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Solar

[MrWeen]

 

This one came out in January of 84. First black costume.

 

Also Marvel Age 19 has the Black Costume Spider-Man on a cover in October of 1984, months before SW 8.

 

I'm not trying to rip you or anything but 252 is considered the first and it just isn't. I think the iconic cover comes into play when considering how wrong the market place and most web resources are on this one. I'm still wondering how Team-Up 141 isn't mistaken more as the first black costume? From what I can gather it came out in May 1984 too.

 

I wasnt advocating anything with respect to the black costume. I was just replying to the comparison of the two books ASM252 and SW8. They came out 7 months apart, and are related. But its not the same as one continuous story, released a few days apart (and out of order). That was the only reason I mentioned it.

 

As far as the market goes, I definitely agree, it is often wrong. I dont think either book CM1 or AS should be valuable. This thread, this board, and its offshoots, move the market a lot on books, even more so on dirt cheap books.

ok agreed.

[MrWeen]

Except that's not a comic book.

 

It may be the first time the black costume is depicted, but collectors want the first appearance in an actual comic book. I mean if it were even a story preview it would have a bit of appeal, but as an illustration accompanying a text piece...that's a stretch, IMO.

I hear ya but I am not saying it should be more valuable than 252 or 141 or sw 8 only that it should be recognized as the first time the black costume appears in print.

Edited November 6, 2014 by MrWeen

[CBT]

How about you leave this thread, go outside, and settle this like men?

 

I'm a Type 1 diabetic south paw with a bum knee and I'd still rock 90 percent of you fuks but the only person I would fight in here is Larry for pumping up an obscure cross between Bucky O hair and The Mask as the next Deadpool or Harley!

 

to both parts

 

But, one thing his post last night made me think. Marvel is Disney, Star Wars is Disney. If Marvel is going to make him a Deadpool like character for fun variant covers. It's very possible he will be used in the comics themselves, and then maybe even appear in some Star Wars property (movie, tv show, etc).

 

If that happens, it will go bonkers.

 

It's just to be seen whether its a one off variant, or something more. That's probably the kind of speculation that one can educatedly take a gamble on.

[jsilverjanet]

what's the over/under how many new blocked members will come of this discussion (CBT blocks + boardies who block CBT)

 

 

[AnhDepTrai]

I am not argue who's wrong, who's right or which book is first appearance of CM. Just saying the market so far: AVSM9 beating out CM1 in sold price and more consistent. Market determines which appearance is more important even if they are wrong.

 

CM #1, Sales of Single issue, not in combination of any other book, from Nov 1 to Nov 6:

 

Nov 6 $22.99

 

Nov 4 $5 sold 28 copies

 

Nov 3 $15

 

Nov 3 $3.29

 

Nov 2 $49.99

 

Nov 2 $1.29

 

AVSM9, Sales of single issue, not in combination of any other book:

 

Nov 4 $34

 

Nov 4 $3.99

 

Nov 3 $34.99

 

Nov 3 $34.99

 

Nov 3 $23.70

 

Nov 2 $24

 

Nov 2 $23

 

Nov 2 $27.99

 

Nov 1 $23

[mysterio]

Try responding to this then:

 

Marvel Superheroes #13 - First appearance of Carol Danvers

Ms. Marvel #1 - Carol Danvers becomes Ms. Marvel

Avenging Spider-Man #9 - First reference to Carol Danvers as Captain Marvel (follows directly from CM1, released 7 days earlier)

Captain Marvel #1 (2012) - Carol Danvers becomes Captain Marvel

 

Again, no amount of wailing and flailing can change those facts.

 

FTFY, even worded it more in favor of your view, but you cant cram "origin story" on to CM1, its just not true.

 

So the difference between "first reference" (nice to see you've allowed that much) and "first appearance" would be what, exactly? Please explain.

 

sure, didnt see your post before I am happy to, but you miss-quoted, let me restore that for you.

 

The debate isnt about the release dates. The argument started because I said people were missing the forest for the trees, chasing a date instead of the actual event.

 

CM1 and AS9 are part 1 and part 2 of a two part story. They were released offset (out of order), to help boost part 1's sales, because part 2 was placed in a much more popular book (for the sole purpose of said sales boost).

 

Carol becomes Captain Marvel in Captain Marvel #1 (part 1 of the two part story).

 

Because of the offset release dates, he was attempting to call CM1 an origin story. The pointing being to diminish the fact that that is the book where she becomes Captain Marvel. But, saying it doesnt make it true. It is not an origin story, its part 1 of a two part story released out of order.

 

If people want to buy a release date (part 2, released out of order), they can (trees). I am saying they are missing the forest (part 1, where she becomes Captain Marvel).

 

In a way, its very validating that the debate has turned to trying to diminish the fact that Carol becomes Captain Marvel in Captain Marvel, by attempting to label it an origin story. At least that means what actually matters is the focus now, instead of nonsense, name calling, and straw-men.

 

But if we are talking about first appearances, emphasis on the first in that sentence, it is odd that you are arguing that the release dates are immaterial to this issue. CM #1 has basically been turned into a flashback origin story because of the release dates. It doesn't matter that these happened only a week apart; Avenging #9 came out a week earlier and is thus the first appearance.

 

It is quite clear that Marvel intended to release the books in this order, otherwise Avenging #9 wouldn't reference the stories in this order in the recap. This establishes in my mind, and obviously for most of the folks posting in this thread, that Avenging #9 is the first appearance (excepting the Summer of Spider-man one shot, which is chronologically earlier but simply previews story pages from Avenging #9). If anything, the Summer one shot establishes the precedence of Avenging #9, as "introducing the New Captain Marvel" is right there on the cover in reference to that issue. If Avenging #9 isn't the first appearance, why would Marvel call it such? They could have easily said "guest starring the new Captain Marvel". They didn't.

 

Dates may not matter to you, but when establishing a first appearance they do matter to everyone else.

Edited November 6, 2014 by mysterio

[JTLarsen]

fixed.

 

As much as you'd like that to be true, unfortunately its not. It's one story, released out of order to boost sales.

 

Right. So the day after she appeared in Avenging Spider-Man but had not yet appeared in Captain Marvel 1, the reality was--she hadn't appeared at all! Or, it was her second appearance, and people were just going to have to wait a week for her first appearance, which would appear second, following her second appearance, which appeared first.

 

I can see why you do this now. It's fun!

[CBT]

I am not argue who's wrong, who's right or which book is first appearance of CM. Just saying the market so far: AVSM9 beating out CM1 in sold price and more consistent.

 

I dont think people should buy either for more than cover. But the majority of those sales, for both books, will be to people here, and likely its people here selling to other people here as well. Neither book has been cared about long enough to define as the "market"

 

 

[jsilverjanet]

I am not argue who's wrong, who's right or which book is first appearance of CM. Just saying the market so far: AVSM9 beating out CM1 in sold price and more consistent. Market determines which appearance is more important even if they are wrong.

 

CM #1, Sales of Single issue, not in combination of any other book, from Nov 1 to Nov 6:

 

Nov 6 $22.99

 

Nov 4 $5 sold 28 copies

 

Nov 3 $15

 

Nov 3 $3.29

 

Nov 2 $49.99

 

Nov 2 $1.29

 

AVSM9, Sales of single issue, not in combination of any other book:

 

Nov 4 $34

 

Nov 4 $3.99

 

Nov 3 $34.99

 

Nov 3 $34.99

 

Nov 3 $23.70

 

Nov 2 $24

 

Nov 2 $23

 

Nov 2 $27.99

 

Nov 1 $23

 

great news! I found AVSM#9 at the LCS for $4 but can't find Captain Marvel #1

 

[JTLarsen]

Captain marvel 17 plus ms marvel 1 is hot

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=captain+marvel+17&_from=R40%7CR40&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&_osacat=900&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1.A0.H0.Xcaptain+marvel+17+ms&_nkw=captain+marvel+17+ms&_sacat=900

 

I've even seen the 2nd print of 17 doing okay because the new Ms. Marvel is on the cover. I'm a 1st print guy only because you can reprint indefinitely but it is a neat feature imo.

 

Keep in mind, if the second printing comes out a week later, it's actually a first printing. Because science.

[CBT]

Right. So the day after she appeared in Avenging Spider-Man but had not yet appeared in Captain Marvel 1, the reality was--she hadn't appeared at all!

 

This is the definition of a straw man. You are arguing against things that no one said, and setting up fake examples to knock down.

 

"CM1 is the book where Carol becomes Captain Marvel, its not an origin story."

 

 

 

[JTLarsen]

Right. So the day after she appeared in Avenging Spider-Man but had not yet appeared in Captain Marvel 1, the reality was--she hadn't appeared at all!

 

This is the definition of a straw man. You are arguing against things that no one said, and setting up fake examples to knock down.

 

"CM1 is the book where Carol becomes Captain Marvel, its not an origin story."

 

I don't care whether it's her origin or not and haven't argued regarding that at all (see: ACTUAL definition of straw man). I have argued that a week that comes before another week comes first. If you're saying Avenging Spider-Man 9 was not her first appearance, she must not have appeared in it.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I've got a hot lead on Batman 404, his first appearance.

[CBT]

You are arguing against things that no one said, and setting up fake examples to knock down."

 

see: ACTUAL definition of straw man). I have argued that a week that comes before another week comes first.

 

Now if you'll excuse me,

 

natch, and i didnt say i was defining the expression straw man, I said your post was the definition of it

like your new post is the definition of ironic

Edited November 6, 2014 by CBT

[the authority]

How about you leave this thread, go outside, and settle this like men?

 

I'm a Type 1 diabetic south paw with a bum knee and I'd still rock 90 percent of you fuks but the only person I would fight in here is Larry for pumping up an obscure cross between Bucky O hair and The Mask as the next Deadpool or Harley!

 

This whole thread has turned crazy but this made my day !

 

A lefty huh ? Marvelous Marvin Hagler and Michael Moorer would be proud.

 

ROCKY ROCKY ROCKY

[true_story1011]

Anyone else grabbing copies of Battle Scars #1 & #6?