Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[natevegas]

The "Diversity Thing "

is pretty good for the medium right now.

There seemed to be quite a diverse crowd at the show. Go figure. Appealing to more people brings in more fans. It would be nice if some of those complaining here would maybe go to a Mary Sue panel at a con to try to understand the perspective of others, rather than fall back o the same straw man perspectives.

 

Honestly is it diversity when you change practically all the A list characters (that have been around for 50-75 plus years and have done well) just to say look at us everyone and pat ourselves on the back how diverse we are?

 

Diversity either is present or not in a society it can't be forced .

The problem is that people seem to think that the people (who aren't straight white males) that want to see themselves represented well in comics are the ones responsible for how companies address that demand.

And those same people want the opposite of this now. How many white male characters are appropriate?

Is there a specific number that have to represent each race and if so who is in charge of this specific number policy?

Is there ever a "right number of people represented" because when diversity is used there is always a number to follow.

Two wrongs don't make a right and sparingly made changes add to the MU not what they are doing now. Its a fast storyline change for money right now but the sad thing about it is while you think it's drawing more new readers to it, its also pushing long time supporters of it away.

 

Then stop reading it.

 

Go collect coins.

 

Because Marvel's REAL reason for doing it is MONEY.

NEW money. REAL money.

 

Thor is selling MORE.

 

For all the talk about Captain America's Brusker run (which was great), Cap is now selling MORE.

 

Spider-Gwen is selling over 100,000 copies.

 

Silk almost sold as many copies of Avengers Ultron Forever which has a movie.

 

Ms. Marvel sells as well as Superior Iron Man which has a movie.

 

And if they didn't sell as well?

 

Then Marvel would cancel them.

 

They're trying to sell to a segment of a market that is UNTAPPED and it isn't comprised of creepy little white male nerds who are only concerned about what book they can flip next. They're going after READERS.

 

Of all kinds.

 

It's not politics is business.

 

And who is it pushing away? The books are selling more copies now than they were.

 

Fact is: The people who person_without_enough_empathy about it, aren't even the one's reading it.

 

I've corrected numerous people in my store complaining about how Marvel 'turned' Thor into a girl - WRONG.

 

Thor collectors overwhelmingly love the storyline (Jason Aaron rocks), and new readers are joining in.

 

Whatever 'long time supporters of it' that are leaving, isn't apparent in the sales numbers.

 

 

 

Bottom line is there are far more people that might be reading comics but aren't, than there are current readers who will be pushed away because not everything is catered to them specifically.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you sell a sandwich that only 10% of the population wants, it would only make sense to either change that sandwich or make more sandwich's that a larger percentage of the population wants.

 

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

First of all how many of these sales are actual "new" readers versus people speculating on new characters / story lines and buying up the rarest variants to pump up the sales numbers?

Spider-Gwen is hovering at the 71 k mark and falling just like every other Marvel book.

 

Just because I don't like that every main A list Marvel character changed for the media applause, diversity champions or PC police doesn't make me a closet racist. Seriously buddy keep the racist naming off these boards. Just because you don't agree with someone's likes or dislikes doesn't make give you the right to insult others.

 

[revat]

Not liking the 'diversity' changes doesn't make a person sound racist. Blaming the changes on the 'PC Police' or 'diversity champions' when its pretty clearly just a strategy (as most business is) to win more (and younger) customers and to capitalize (first) on untapped markets in an increasingly diverse and tolerant market is what makes a person sound racist.

 

Saying there might be smarter ways to introduce diversity into comics doesn't make a person sound racist. Saying that any one way to introduce diversity into comics is unequivocally wrong makes a person sound racist.

 

One other note: Obviously, most racist sounding people don't realize they sound racist.

[krighton]

there's no online retailers that I've found that still have copies of Disciples 1....I got 2 copies from MCS and they sold out right after that.

 

This is the cheapest I could find on ebay and it's $10 shipped.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Disciples-1-Black-Mask-Comics-Unread-High-Grade-Hot-New-Comic-/231583032916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eb6ca654

 

Are you including shipping in the price?

 

That's usually what the "shipped" bit means.

 

Yeah I get what it means, I asked the question to draw out the answer to show the disingenuous nature of what's being said.

 

If Turd Man comics sells for $3.99 on eBay, and some clown has $6.00 shipping, it doesn't mean FMV on the book is $10.

 

I realize most of you want to pump up the prices on these worthless modern speculation books, but geez, let's try and be a bit more honest here.

 

When are you going to find FMV on ebay...you have to include what you paid for the entire comic for future sales unless you want to lose money. A comic that's being sold for $10 free shipping and on for $3.99 and $6.01 shipping are being sold for the same price if the sellers shipping cost is $6.01. This is a glass half full/empty discussion so pointless.

 

And, the incorrect usage by young adults of the words racist and sexist are reasons why Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock won't do comedy bits on college campuses any longer.

Edited June 10, 2015 by krighton

[GeeksAreMyPeeps]

there's no online retailers that I've found that still have copies of Disciples 1....I got 2 copies from MCS and they sold out right after that.

 

This is the cheapest I could find on ebay and it's $10 shipped.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Disciples-1-Black-Mask-Comics-Unread-High-Grade-Hot-New-Comic-/231583032916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eb6ca654

 

Are you including shipping in the price?

 

That's usually what the "shipped" bit means.

 

Yeah I get what it means, I asked the question to draw out the answer to show the disingenuous nature of what's being said.

 

If Turd Man comics sells for $3.99 on eBay, and some clown has $6.00 shipping, it doesn't mean FMV on the book is $10.

 

I realize most of you want to pump up the prices on these worthless modern speculation books, but geez, let's try and be a bit more honest here.

 

When are you going to find FMV on ebay...you have to include what you paid for the entire comic for future sales unless you want to lose money. A comic that's being sold for $10 free shipping and on for $3.99 and $6.01 shipping are being sold for the same price if the sellers shipping cost is $6.01. This is a glass half full/empty discussion so pointless.

Does anyone ever actually but just one cheap comic on eBay?

[aelelarkin]

there's no online retailers that I've found that still have copies of Disciples 1....I got 2 copies from MCS and they sold out right after that.

 

This is the cheapest I could find on ebay and it's $10 shipped.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Disciples-1-Black-Mask-Comics-Unread-High-Grade-Hot-New-Comic-/231583032916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eb6ca654

 

Are you including shipping in the price?

 

That's usually what the "shipped" bit means.

 

Yeah I get what it means, I asked the question to draw out the answer to show the disingenuous nature of what's being said.

 

If Turd Man comics sells for $3.99 on eBay, and some clown has $6.00 shipping, it doesn't mean FMV on the book is $10.

 

I realize most of you want to pump up the prices on these worthless modern speculation books, but geez, let's try and be a bit more honest here.

 

When are you going to find FMV on ebay...you have to include what you paid for the entire comic for future sales unless you want to lose money. A comic that's being sold for $10 free shipping and on for $3.99 and $6.01 shipping are being sold for the same price if the sellers shipping cost is $6.01. This is a glass half full/empty discussion so pointless.

Does anyone ever actually but just one cheap comic on eBay?

Yes.

[krighton]

Don't know but this guy was only offering one Comic

[Prince Namor]

there's no online retailers that I've found that still have copies of Disciples 1....I got 2 copies from MCS and they sold out right after that.

 

This is the cheapest I could find on ebay and it's $10 shipped.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Disciples-1-Black-Mask-Comics-Unread-High-Grade-Hot-New-Comic-/231583032916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eb6ca654

 

Are you including shipping in the price?

 

That's usually what the "shipped" bit means.

 

Yeah I get what it means, I asked the question to draw out the answer to show the disingenuous nature of what's being said.

 

If Turd Man comics sells for $3.99 on eBay, and some clown has $6.00 shipping, it doesn't mean FMV on the book is $10.

 

I realize most of you want to pump up the prices on these worthless modern speculation books, but geez, let's try and be a bit more honest here.

 

When are you going to find FMV on ebay...

 

Well considering eBay is one of the bigger comic markets, I'd say all over it. If someone has the book for $3.99 with $2.95 shipping and someone else has it for $3.99 and $6.00 shipping, what is the FMV price? $8?

 

Of course not. You don't determine a books market value by it's shipping cost.

 

Are you seriously arguing this point?

 

you have to include what you paid for the entire comic for future sales unless you want to lose money. A comic that's being sold for $10 free shipping and on for $3.99 and $6.01 shipping are being sold for the same price if the sellers shipping cost is $6.01. This is a glass half full/empty discussion so pointless.

 

So I should take into consideration everyone's PnR sheet when looking at what people say a FMV is for some book in Modern.

 

What if they buy multiple copies and get shipping discount? Does that change the FMV price of the book?

 

Seriously.

 

And, the incorrect usage by young adults of the words racist and sexist are reasons why Jerry Seinfeld and Chris Rock won't do comedy bits on college campuses any longer.

 

Good for them.

[Prince Namor]

The "Diversity Thing "

is pretty good for the medium right now.

There seemed to be quite a diverse crowd at the show. Go figure. Appealing to more people brings in more fans. It would be nice if some of those complaining here would maybe go to a Mary Sue panel at a con to try to understand the perspective of others, rather than fall back o the same straw man perspectives.

 

Honestly is it diversity when you change practically all the A list characters (that have been around for 50-75 plus years and have done well) just to say look at us everyone and pat ourselves on the back how diverse we are?

 

Diversity either is present or not in a society it can't be forced .

The problem is that people seem to think that the people (who aren't straight white males) that want to see themselves represented well in comics are the ones responsible for how companies address that demand.

And those same people want the opposite of this now. How many white male characters are appropriate?

Is there a specific number that have to represent each race and if so who is in charge of this specific number policy?

Is there ever a "right number of people represented" because when diversity is used there is always a number to follow.

Two wrongs don't make a right and sparingly made changes add to the MU not what they are doing now. Its a fast storyline change for money right now but the sad thing about it is while you think it's drawing more new readers to it, its also pushing long time supporters of it away.

 

Then stop reading it.

 

Go collect coins.

 

Because Marvel's REAL reason for doing it is MONEY.

NEW money. REAL money.

 

Thor is selling MORE.

 

For all the talk about Captain America's Brusker run (which was great), Cap is now selling MORE.

 

Spider-Gwen is selling over 100,000 copies.

 

Silk almost sold as many copies of Avengers Ultron Forever which has a movie.

 

Ms. Marvel sells as well as Superior Iron Man which has a movie.

 

And if they didn't sell as well?

 

Then Marvel would cancel them.

 

They're trying to sell to a segment of a market that is UNTAPPED and it isn't comprised of creepy little white male nerds who are only concerned about what book they can flip next. They're going after READERS.

 

Of all kinds.

 

It's not politics is business.

 

And who is it pushing away? The books are selling more copies now than they were.

 

Fact is: The people who person_without_enough_empathy about it, aren't even the one's reading it.

 

I've corrected numerous people in my store complaining about how Marvel 'turned' Thor into a girl - WRONG.

 

Thor collectors overwhelmingly love the storyline (Jason Aaron rocks), and new readers are joining in.

 

Whatever 'long time supporters of it' that are leaving, isn't apparent in the sales numbers.

 

 

 

Bottom line is there are far more people that might be reading comics but aren't, than there are current readers who will be pushed away because not everything is catered to them specifically.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you sell a sandwich that only 10% of the population wants, it would only make sense to either change that sandwich or make more sandwich's that a larger percentage of the population wants.

 

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

First of all how many of these sales are actual "new" readers versus people speculating on new characters / story lines and buying up the rarest variants to pump up the sales numbers?

 

I have very few speculators come into my store. And those books sell very well for me. Most retailers will tell you they're seeing more women, especially, starting to come into their stores to read.

 

Spider-Gwen is hovering at the 71 k mark and falling just like every other Marvel book.

 

Uh... the industry just had it's best year in about 20 years... Marvel is having a banner year.... I don't know where you got 71,000 from, but i show the last icv2 actual numbers was from April 2015 at over 100,000.

 

Just because I don't like that every main A list Marvel character changed for the media applause, diversity champions or PC police doesn't make me a closet racist.

 

You're right. It doesn't.

 

However if you're culturally ignorant or a racist, using phrases like PC Police is very natural.

 

Seriously buddy keep the racist naming off these boards. Just because you don't agree with someone's likes or dislikes doesn't make give you the right to insult others.

 

I didn't call YOU a racist. I didn't specifically call anyone a racist.

[Staroline-migration]

I'm said I wasn't touching the diversity argument with a 10 foot pole, but I have to chime in. As a minority comic book reader, I'm not buying Silk because its the first representation of an Asian-American leading her own title, I love Stacey Lee's art and the stories intriguing.

 

The female Thor story has been amazing, Jason Aaron's whole run has been amongst the best in history IMO.

 

I've always loved Miles Morales, but I didn't identify with him because we have similar ethnic backgrounds, I just liked to see a young teenage spider-man again and Bendis and Sara were pumping gold out of those books.

 

Kamala Khan is one of the best new original characters, and to be honest I never bought Ms. Marvel titles with Carol Danvers, because the non-powered scenes were lacking, I buy Ms. Marvel for the scenes at home, a culture I know nothing about and am being educated on.

 

People who think this is the PC police, or some mandate to make things diverse are completely making the point. They aren't pandering to minorities like me. Lets think about this logically, if you're a business, why would you try to sell books that are aimed at the minority of the population. That's not what they are doing, they are selling books that sell, and its not because of race or gender, these stories are intriguing, a shot in the arm to Marvel and the industry.

 

And quite frankly going all the way back to the days of Golden Age books and before, are people seriously person_without_enough_empathying about diversity in comics after 60-70 years of 90+% White Male superheroes?

[Zacreth]

there's no online retailers that I've found that still have copies of Disciples 1....I got 2 copies from MCS and they sold out right after that.

 

This is the cheapest I could find on ebay and it's $10 shipped.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Disciples-1-Black-Mask-Comics-Unread-High-Grade-Hot-New-Comic-/231583032916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35eb6ca654

 

Are you including shipping in the price?

 

That's usually what the "shipped" bit means.

 

Yeah I get what it means, I asked the question to draw out the answer to show the disingenuous nature of what's being said.

 

If Turd Man comics sells for $3.99 on eBay, and some clown has $6.00 shipping, it doesn't mean FMV on the book is $10.

 

I realize most of you want to pump up the prices on these worthless modern speculation books, but geez, let's try and be a bit more honest here.

 

When are you going to find FMV on ebay...you have to include what you paid for the entire comic for future sales unless you want to lose money. A comic that's being sold for $10 free shipping and on for $3.99 and $6.01 shipping are being sold for the same price if the sellers shipping cost is $6.01. This is a glass half full/empty discussion so pointless.

Does anyone ever actually but just one cheap comic on eBay?

 

Actually yes quite a few people often do from me which I don't understand. When you buy a book that costs $3.50 and I charge $4.00 for shipping why not buy another comic to make it worth it.

[jcjames]

.

.

.

Lets think about this logically, if you're a business, why would you try to sell books that are aimed at the minority of the population.

.

.

.

Because your base of customers that sustained you in the past is declining and so you're trying to draw in a new growing base of customers with characters that you think they can superficially relate to better. IOW, to bring in new customers and make more money.

 

It's really not that complicated.

 

 

ETA: The same writers and artists can create JUST as interesting stories using existing characters regardless of race, ethnicity etc. but instead they write interesting stories using new/changed/different characters to draw in new readers.

 

 

 

 

 

[8802]

I'm said I wasn't touching the diversity argument with a 10 foot pole, but I have to chime in. As a minority comic book reader, I'm not buying Silk because its the first representation of an Asian-American leading her own title, I love Stacey Lee's art and the stories intriguing.

 

The female Thor story has been amazing, Jason Aaron's whole run has been amongst the best in history IMO.

 

I've always loved Miles Morales, but I didn't identify with him because we have similar ethnic backgrounds, I just liked to see a young teenage spider-man again and Bendis and Sara were pumping gold out of those books.

 

Kamala Khan is one of the best new original characters, and to be honest I never bought Ms. Marvel titles with Carol Danvers, because the non-powered scenes were lacking, I buy Ms. Marvel for the scenes at home, a culture I know nothing about and am being educated on.

 

People who think this is the PC police, or some mandate to make things diverse are completely making the point. They aren't pandering to minorities like me. Lets think about this logically, if you're a business, why would you try to sell books that are aimed at the minority of the population. That's not what they are doing, they are selling books that sell, and its not because of race or gender, these stories are intriguing, a shot in the arm to Marvel and the industry.

 

And quite frankly going all the way back to the days of Golden Age books and before, are people seriously person_without_enough_empathying about diversity in comics after 60-70 years of 90+% White Male superheroes?

 

Great reply, first logical thing I've seen on here in a few days. Your point about the Kamala scenes at home are exactly how I feel about that book.

[natevegas]

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

 

Since you don't know me let me tell you a little about myself. I was born with a physical disability that basically will never go away. I've dealt with the PC police my whole life. I won't go into all the details but let me just say I've had many terms used for "my people" or "my specific minority". I'm an American and choose to think of myself as not part of a minority but every 5-10 years politicians and the media come around and try to focus on this issue and how they can exploit it to their advantage. Currently the new catch phrase trying to be applied to me is "Disabled American".

 

Guess what I don't buy into political correctness and that is my right not to. Don't come onto a fun comic book board and paint everyone you don't know with a broad paint brush

[Prince Namor]

I'm said I wasn't touching the diversity argument with a 10 foot pole, but I have to chime in. As a minority comic book reader, I'm not buying Silk because its the first representation of an Asian-American leading her own title, I love Stacey Lee's art and the stories intriguing.

 

The female Thor story has been amazing, Jason Aaron's whole run has been amongst the best in history IMO.

 

I've always loved Miles Morales, but I didn't identify with him because we have similar ethnic backgrounds, I just liked to see a young teenage spider-man again and Bendis and Sara were pumping gold out of those books.

 

Kamala Khan is one of the best new original characters, and to be honest I never bought Ms. Marvel titles with Carol Danvers, because the non-powered scenes were lacking, I buy Ms. Marvel for the scenes at home, a culture I know nothing about and am being educated on.

 

People who think this is the PC police, or some mandate to make things diverse are completely making the point. They aren't pandering to minorities like me. Lets think about this logically, if you're a business, why would you try to sell books that are aimed at the minority of the population. That's not what they are doing, they are selling books that sell, and its not because of race or gender, these stories are intriguing, a shot in the arm to Marvel and the industry.

 

And quite frankly going all the way back to the days of Golden Age books and before, are people seriously person_without_enough_empathying about diversity in comics after 60-70 years of 90+% White Male superheroes?

 

Exactly.

 

It proves the real point, which is that people, who are used to having everything voiced their way are using 'PC Police' as a way of trying to turn it around and make it seem as if THEY are the victim.

 

Nonsense.

 

Not being able to make a remark about someone's boobs or the color of their skin is no more a societal pressure than wearing deodorant or not cussing in proper company. A civilized society shouldn't have an issue with it.

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

 

Since you don't know me let me tell you a little about myself. I was born with a physical disability that basically will never go away. I've dealt with the PC police my whole life. I won't go into all the details but let me just say I've had many terms used for "my people" or "my specific minority".

 

How is having a 'term' for what it is you have, a 'PC Police' thing?

 

Because people want to come up with a phrase for something that is the least offensive to the people it's referring to, you think that's some kind of censorship?

 

I'm an American and choose to think of myself as not part of a minority but every 5-10 years politicians and the media come around and try to focus on this issue and how they can exploit it to their advantage. Currently the new catch phrase trying to be applied to me is "Disabled American".

 

You've been labeled?

 

Is that the severity of the harshness you're trying to explain to me? Surely it must be worse than that. You're not going on and on because some politician labeled a segment of the population that you just happen to be a part of are you?

 

That's what's got you angry because Marvel let a girl pick up Thor's hammer?

 

Guess what I don't buy into political correctness and that is my right not to.

 

You betcha.

 

Don't come onto a fun comic book board and paint everyone you don't know with a broad paint brush

 

Oh... I have a feeling I'm very much painting within the numbers.

 

 

[F For Fake]

The "Diversity Thing "

is pretty good for the medium right now.

There seemed to be quite a diverse crowd at the show. Go figure. Appealing to more people brings in more fans. It would be nice if some of those complaining here would maybe go to a Mary Sue panel at a con to try to understand the perspective of others, rather than fall back o the same straw man perspectives.

 

Honestly is it diversity when you change practically all the A list characters (that have been around for 50-75 plus years and have done well) just to say look at us everyone and pat ourselves on the back how diverse we are?

 

Diversity either is present or not in a society it can't be forced .

The problem is that people seem to think that the people (who aren't straight white males) that want to see themselves represented well in comics are the ones responsible for how companies address that demand.

And those same people want the opposite of this now. How many white male characters are appropriate?

Is there a specific number that have to represent each race and if so who is in charge of this specific number policy?

Is there ever a "right number of people represented" because when diversity is used there is always a number to follow.

Two wrongs don't make a right and sparingly made changes add to the MU not what they are doing now. Its a fast storyline change for money right now but the sad thing about it is while you think it's drawing more new readers to it, its also pushing long time supporters of it away.

 

Then stop reading it.

 

Go collect coins.

 

Because Marvel's REAL reason for doing it is MONEY.

NEW money. REAL money.

 

Thor is selling MORE.

 

For all the talk about Captain America's Brusker run (which was great), Cap is now selling MORE.

 

Spider-Gwen is selling over 100,000 copies.

 

Silk almost sold as many copies of Avengers Ultron Forever which has a movie.

 

Ms. Marvel sells as well as Superior Iron Man which has a movie.

 

And if they didn't sell as well?

 

Then Marvel would cancel them.

 

They're trying to sell to a segment of a market that is UNTAPPED and it isn't comprised of creepy little white male nerds who are only concerned about what book they can flip next. They're going after READERS.

 

Of all kinds.

 

It's not politics is business.

 

And who is it pushing away? The books are selling more copies now than they were.

 

Fact is: The people who person_without_enough_empathy about it, aren't even the one's reading it.

 

I've corrected numerous people in my store complaining about how Marvel 'turned' Thor into a girl - WRONG.

 

Thor collectors overwhelmingly love the storyline (Jason Aaron rocks), and new readers are joining in.

 

Whatever 'long time supporters of it' that are leaving, isn't apparent in the sales numbers.

 

 

 

Bottom line is there are far more people that might be reading comics but aren't, than there are current readers who will be pushed away because not everything is catered to them specifically.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you sell a sandwich that only 10% of the population wants, it would only make sense to either change that sandwich or make more sandwich's that a larger percentage of the population wants.

 

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

 

This x1000

 

 

[krighton]

Ok you guys can stop quoting the wall of text now

[400yrs]

"Turd Man comics"

 

Turd Man Comics is all about the speculation on variants which may or may not float for a while. I buy from Dingleberry Man Comics because he tells me which storylines have been hanging strong.

 

 

I'm not reading it, but what I've tried from this new Marvel stuff has been good. It's wise for them to spread out. America is a big melting pot so why shouldn't comics reflect that? The crotchety people who complain are old timers who hate any kind of change. The times pass them by as they complain about how things were soooo much better, be it comics, neighborhoods, porn mags or whatever. Just ignore them, rub their heads as you walk by them so they feel they still have some relevance.

[Gunnz]

The "Diversity Thing "

is pretty good for the medium right now.

There seemed to be quite a diverse crowd at the show. Go figure. Appealing to more people brings in more fans. It would be nice if some of those complaining here would maybe go to a Mary Sue panel at a con to try to understand the perspective of others, rather than fall back o the same straw man perspectives.

 

Honestly is it diversity when you change practically all the A list characters (that have been around for 50-75 plus years and have done well) just to say look at us everyone and pat ourselves on the back how diverse we are?

 

Diversity either is present or not in a society it can't be forced .

The problem is that people seem to think that the people (who aren't straight white males) that want to see themselves represented well in comics are the ones responsible for how companies address that demand.

And those same people want the opposite of this now. How many white male characters are appropriate?

Is there a specific number that have to represent each race and if so who is in charge of this specific number policy?

Is there ever a "right number of people represented" because when diversity is used there is always a number to follow.

Two wrongs don't make a right and sparingly made changes add to the MU not what they are doing now. Its a fast storyline change for money right now but the sad thing about it is while you think it's drawing more new readers to it, its also pushing long time supporters of it away.

 

Then stop reading it.

 

Go collect coins.

 

Because Marvel's REAL reason for doing it is MONEY.

NEW money. REAL money.

 

Thor is selling MORE.

 

For all the talk about Captain America's Brusker run (which was great), Cap is now selling MORE.

 

Spider-Gwen is selling over 100,000 copies.

 

Silk almost sold as many copies of Avengers Ultron Forever which has a movie.

 

Ms. Marvel sells as well as Superior Iron Man which has a movie.

 

And if they didn't sell as well?

 

Then Marvel would cancel them.

 

They're trying to sell to a segment of a market that is UNTAPPED and it isn't comprised of creepy little white male nerds who are only concerned about what book they can flip next. They're going after READERS.

 

Of all kinds.

 

It's not politics is business.

 

And who is it pushing away? The books are selling more copies now than they were.

 

Fact is: The people who person_without_enough_empathy about it, aren't even the one's reading it.

 

I've corrected numerous people in my store complaining about how Marvel 'turned' Thor into a girl - WRONG.

 

Thor collectors overwhelmingly love the storyline (Jason Aaron rocks), and new readers are joining in.

 

Whatever 'long time supporters of it' that are leaving, isn't apparent in the sales numbers.

 

 

 

Bottom line is there are far more people that might be reading comics but aren't, than there are current readers who will be pushed away because not everything is catered to them specifically.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you sell a sandwich that only 10% of the population wants, it would only make sense to either change that sandwich or make more sandwich's that a larger percentage of the population wants.

 

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

 

This x1000

 

 

We should rename this thread, "controvertial topics heating up".

 

So, I can honestly say that when I was a kid, it kind of sucked that all the cool superheroes (or most of the comic industry) were white. Not the fact that they were white, but the fact that I wanted to be superman so bad, but you pretend to be him and are told by friends the obvious, supermans not brown... Thanks Sherlock.

 

So from the viewpoint of marketing it makes sense to diversify to appeal to a wider audience. From a consumer standpoint, I think it's nice to see new ethnicities in comics. Should said ethnicities replace current white characters for the sake of diversity? No. Does it cheapen the whole idea of diversity when a white Batman is now black but everything else about him remains the same? Yes.

 

You can't replace a legacy with a new coat of paint. It's cutting corners and sad.

 

Introduce a new Mexican, black, Asian, male/female character and let them create their own legacy. Comics are about imagination, not politics. But it's heading in that direction.

 

Lastly, racism is a thing. I'm not sure if it will ever be gone. It is a problem. But so is being super sensitive and taking offense to everything you see and hear. Have I been called a n!gger, a packy, a terrorist because of my color? Yes. Did I punch out everyone that said it? No. Why? Because I know better. I'm smarter than that, and I know that no matter what I do to that person it will not change their mind, only reinforce their beliefs.

 

I love Steve Rogers. I love Falcon. But there is only 1 Captain America.

 

That's my rant for the day.

 

PM me for further inspiring conversation and opinions.

 

Justin.

[Prince Namor]

The "Diversity Thing "

is pretty good for the medium right now.

There seemed to be quite a diverse crowd at the show. Go figure. Appealing to more people brings in more fans. It would be nice if some of those complaining here would maybe go to a Mary Sue panel at a con to try to understand the perspective of others, rather than fall back o the same straw man perspectives.

 

Honestly is it diversity when you change practically all the A list characters (that have been around for 50-75 plus years and have done well) just to say look at us everyone and pat ourselves on the back how diverse we are?

 

Diversity either is present or not in a society it can't be forced .

The problem is that people seem to think that the people (who aren't straight white males) that want to see themselves represented well in comics are the ones responsible for how companies address that demand.

And those same people want the opposite of this now. How many white male characters are appropriate?

Is there a specific number that have to represent each race and if so who is in charge of this specific number policy?

Is there ever a "right number of people represented" because when diversity is used there is always a number to follow.

Two wrongs don't make a right and sparingly made changes add to the MU not what they are doing now. Its a fast storyline change for money right now but the sad thing about it is while you think it's drawing more new readers to it, its also pushing long time supporters of it away.

 

Then stop reading it.

 

Go collect coins.

 

Because Marvel's REAL reason for doing it is MONEY.

NEW money. REAL money.

 

Thor is selling MORE.

 

For all the talk about Captain America's Brusker run (which was great), Cap is now selling MORE.

 

Spider-Gwen is selling over 100,000 copies.

 

Silk almost sold as many copies of Avengers Ultron Forever which has a movie.

 

Ms. Marvel sells as well as Superior Iron Man which has a movie.

 

And if they didn't sell as well?

 

Then Marvel would cancel them.

 

They're trying to sell to a segment of a market that is UNTAPPED and it isn't comprised of creepy little white male nerds who are only concerned about what book they can flip next. They're going after READERS.

 

Of all kinds.

 

It's not politics is business.

 

And who is it pushing away? The books are selling more copies now than they were.

 

Fact is: The people who person_without_enough_empathy about it, aren't even the one's reading it.

 

I've corrected numerous people in my store complaining about how Marvel 'turned' Thor into a girl - WRONG.

 

Thor collectors overwhelmingly love the storyline (Jason Aaron rocks), and new readers are joining in.

 

Whatever 'long time supporters of it' that are leaving, isn't apparent in the sales numbers.

 

 

 

Bottom line is there are far more people that might be reading comics but aren't, than there are current readers who will be pushed away because not everything is catered to them specifically.

 

Absolutely.

 

If you sell a sandwich that only 10% of the population wants, it would only make sense to either change that sandwich or make more sandwich's that a larger percentage of the population wants.

 

And then closet racists/mysogynists, as well as socially awkward nerds could claim politics and pc police were ruing their sandwich hobby.

 

This x1000

 

 

We should rename this thread, "controvertial topics heating up".

 

So, I can honestly say that when I was a kid, it kind of sucked that all the cool superheroes (or most of the comic industry) were white. Not the fact that they were white, but the fact that I wanted to be superman so bad, but you pretend to be him and are told by friends the obvious, supermans not brown... Thanks Sherlock.

 

So from the viewpoint of marketing it makes sense to diversify to appeal to a wider audience. From a consumer standpoint, I think it's nice to see new ethnicities in comics. Should said ethnicities replace current white characters for the sake of diversity? No. Does it cheapen the whole idea of diversity when a white Batman is now black but everything else about him remains the same? Yes.

 

You can't replace a legacy with a new coat of paint. It's cutting corners and sad.

 

Introduce a new Mexican, black, Asian, male/female character and let them create their own legacy. Comics are about imagination, not politics. But it's heading in that direction.

 

Lastly, racism is a thing. I'm not sure if it will ever be gone. It is a problem. But so is being super sensitive and taking offense to everything you see and hear. Have I been called a n!gger, a packy, a terrorist because of my color? Yes. Did I punch out everyone that said it? No. Why? Because I know better. I'm smarter than that, and I know that no matter what I do to that person it will not change their mind, only reinforce their beliefs.

 

I love Steve Rogers. I love Falcon. But there is only 1 Captain America.

 

That's my rant for the day.

 

PM me for further inspiring conversation and opinions.

 

Justin.

 

Some great points.

 

And I doubt we've seen the last of Steve Rogers.