Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[paul747]

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

 

No one is (really) disputing that Marvel "prints to the case" (even though Marvel hasn't confirmed this, it's a reasonable assumption to make.)

 

That's not the issue.

 

The issue is that neither you, I, nor anyone else who is not the printer and not the publisher has any idea how many they print, and why.

 

And in your example, what happened to the 450? If they only needed 400, why wouldn't they only print 450, instead of 675?

 

And....the Diamond sales have been farrrr in excess of simple "overages."

 

For example....I own roughly 50 copies of New Avengers #4, the 1:...I want to say 17? variant, one of the earliest of the incentive variants. These came from Wizard, when they sold all their stock in 2007. And Wizard sold several hundred of these copies. How did they get them? And how does that account for the "case theory"? After all, it was an incentive variant....right? So, logically, they would only print what was necessary to fulfill order, "plus a little more" to cover everything.

 

So how did Wizard end up with hundreds of these books...? The certainly didn't order thousands of copies of the regular books to qualify for these incentives.

 

Same with House of M #1 (the Quesada Scarlet Witch cover), and other incentive variants of the time period. How did Wizard end up with so many, if Marvel only printed roughly to order?

read above where i stated convention or special order ! wizard had a deal/ promotion. This is not the case on the JIM. man you really cant see what i am saying?

 

and the 400 hundred was assuming it was a 200 case pack, i have since done the research to make an educated guess with what i know about how the system works.

Edited May 25, 2016 by paul747

[Jimmy Linguini]

[Jimmy Linguini]

[Jimmy Linguini]

[LarrysComics]

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

 

No one is (really) disputing that Marvel "prints to the case" (even though Marvel hasn't confirmed this, it's a reasonable assumption to make.)

 

That's not the issue.

 

The issue is that neither you, I, nor anyone else who is not the printer and not the publisher has any idea how many they print, and why.

 

And in your example, what happened to the 450? If they only needed 400, why wouldn't they only print 450, instead of 675?

 

And....the Diamond sales have been farrrr in excess of simple "overages."

 

For example....I own roughly 50 copies of New Avengers #4, the 1:...I want to say 17? variant, one of the earliest of the incentive variants. These came from Wizard, when they sold all their stock in 2007. And Wizard sold several hundred of these copies. How did they get them? And how does that account for the "case theory"? After all, it was an incentive variant....right? So, logically, they would only print what was necessary to fulfill orders, "plus a little more" to cover everything.

 

So how did Wizard end up with hundreds of these books...? The certainly didn't order thousands of copies of the regular books to qualify for these incentives.

 

Same with House of M #1 (the Quesada Scarlet Witch cover), and other incentive variants of the time period. How did Wizard end up with so many, if Marvel only printed roughly to order?

 

all the Wizard incentives were printed by Wizard...

The sold off more than hundreds....

They had obnoxious qty's...

Cases and cases.

 

Factoid.

Jacktoid.

Edited May 25, 2016 by LarrysComics

[RockMyAmadeus]

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

 

No one is (really) disputing that Marvel "prints to the case" (even though Marvel hasn't confirmed this, it's a reasonable assumption to make.)

 

That's not the issue.

 

The issue is that neither you, I, nor anyone else who is not the printer and not the publisher has any idea how many they print, and why.

 

And in your example, what happened to the 450? If they only needed 400, why wouldn't they only print 450, instead of 675?

 

And....the Diamond sales have been farrrr in excess of simple "overages."

 

For example....I own roughly 50 copies of New Avengers #4, the 1:...I want to say 17? variant, one of the earliest of the incentive variants. These came from Wizard, when they sold all their stock in 2007. And Wizard sold several hundred of these copies. How did they get them? And how does that account for the "case theory"? After all, it was an incentive variant....right? So, logically, they would only print what was necessary to fulfill order, "plus a little more" to cover everything.

 

So how did Wizard end up with hundreds of these books...? The certainly didn't order thousands of copies of the regular books to qualify for these incentives.

 

Same with House of M #1 (the Quesada Scarlet Witch cover), and other incentive variants of the time period. How did Wizard end up with so many, if Marvel only printed roughly to order?

read above where i stated convention or special order ! wizard had a deal/ promotion. This is not the case on the JIM. man you really cant see what i am saying?

 

and the 400 hundred was assuming it was a 200 case pack, i have since done the research to make an educated guess with what i know about how the system works.

 

 

I can see what you're saying just fine.

 

You say "Wizard had a special deal/promotion"...so, you're saying that the incentive variants are NOT tied to the estimated North American sales to the Direct market, and that Marvel instead prints whatever they want, for whatever purpose they have, and doesn't reveal that information to the public....?

 

 

[LarrysComics]

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

I've been told similar.

By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.

 

But it falls under the CGC board logic category:

Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.

 

I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.

As have many retailers here.

 

 

 

+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !

 

 

Larry's disputing your point.

 

"I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants."

 

I'm assuming he means "more than just enough to account for simple overages."

 

 

 

 

Yes.

I mean more than enough to account for overages.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

 

No one is (really) disputing that Marvel "prints to the case" (even though Marvel hasn't confirmed this, it's a reasonable assumption to make.)

 

That's not the issue.

 

The issue is that neither you, I, nor anyone else who is not the printer and not the publisher has any idea how many they print, and why.

 

And in your example, what happened to the 450? If they only needed 400, why wouldn't they only print 450, instead of 675?

 

And....the Diamond sales have been farrrr in excess of simple "overages."

 

For example....I own roughly 50 copies of New Avengers #4, the 1:...I want to say 17? variant, one of the earliest of the incentive variants. These came from Wizard, when they sold all their stock in 2007. And Wizard sold several hundred of these copies. How did they get them? And how does that account for the "case theory"? After all, it was an incentive variant....right? So, logically, they would only print what was necessary to fulfill orders, "plus a little more" to cover everything.

 

So how did Wizard end up with hundreds of these books...? The certainly didn't order thousands of copies of the regular books to qualify for these incentives.

 

Same with House of M #1 (the Quesada Scarlet Witch cover), and other incentive variants of the time period. How did Wizard end up with so many, if Marvel only printed roughly to order?

 

all the Wizard incentives were printed by Wizard...

The sold off more than hundreds....

They had obnoxious qty's...

Cases and cases.

 

Factoid.

Jacktoid.

 

 

"New Avengers #4" and others like it were not Wizard incentives. They were simple retailer incentives. You know, the ones with the fancy label on the back cover, saying what it is?

 

But yes, they sold cases and cases of those retailer incentives, too.

 

But, how can that be, if they were printed to order, "plus a bit for overage"...?

 

[FutureFlash]

Ah! The good old monthly print run argument. Hey next month you guys should argue who is better Kirk vs Picard for a bit of variety.

 

Maybe there should be a sticky-ed thread with print run information, that way we don't have to this dance every month. I think at this point nobody is changing anybodies opinions on the matter.

 

 

 

If it bothers you, you ought to not tolerate the spread of misinformation. If you want to boil it down to "he said, she said", then you're giving tacit approval to it.

 

There is no "argument", because there's nothing to argue. This isn't "opinion" being argued. This is cold, hard fact against misinformation. So pick a side, FutureFlash: the side of sober, critical analysis, or the side of "let's make stuff up because it sounds good, for whatever reason."

 

And if you think it's just one "valid opinion" vs. another equally "valid opinion", you're not paying attention.

 

 

My point was, can we just have a separate print run thread?

 

 

[paul747]

OMG ! larry is a huge retailer with connections (insider) bad communication but factual ! I was a small retailer as a hobby for years but was connected to the industry and very well networked. There are others that lurk here as well . there is INSIDER INFO in some of these statements. Unless some of the guys I have personal relationships have been BS-ing my constant questioning. Some of these rebuttals are not factual and totally reaching for arguments sake !

[paul747]

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

I've been told similar.

By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.

 

But it falls under the CGC board logic category:

Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.

 

I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.

As have many retailers here.

 

 

 

+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !

 

 

Larry's disputing your point.

 

"I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants."

 

I'm assuming he means "more than just enough to account for simple overages."

 

 

 

 

Yes.

I mean more than enough to account for overages.

 

Not really a dispute ! if 6000 variants are needed and they over run damage and run it as a percentage formula they could order an extra 5-10 cases... that could be significant.

 

Why the spoiler tags?

Edited May 25, 2016 by paul747

[Real Elijah Snow]

bump

[Kyle R.]

Any moderns heating up or is just the users..........?

[Aweandlorder]

Elijah's sig line is heating up

[krighton]

Any moderns heating up or is just the users..........?

 

Superman lois and clark 8 heating up

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Superman-Lois-and-Clark-8-NM-Sold-Out-1st-appearance-of-new-Superboy-/262452995288?hash=item3d1b6ae4d8:g:Q3cAAOSwzchXRO8~

Edited May 25, 2016 by krighton

[Jaydogrules]

OMG ! larry is a huge retailer with connections (insider) bad communication but factual ! I was a small retailer as a hobby for years but was connected to the industry and very well networked. There are others that lurk here as well . there is INSIDER INFO in some of these statements. Unless some of the guys I have personal relationships have been BS-ing my constant questioning. Some of these rebuttals are not factual and totally reaching for arguments sake !

 

What you're saying makes perfect sense to anyone who's reading and doesn't have an axe to grind. Even boardies with independent backgrounds in publishing have come on and validated on more than one occasion exactly what you and Larry are saying.

 

But it will never stop until you either stop responding or agree with the preposterous conceit that no one has any business even estimating the print run of a ratio variant, ever. There's no changing his (and a couple others') opinion on the matter so there's no point in allowing yourself to come to aggravation over it.

 

-J.

 

PS: I owe you an edible arrangement for that deal you gave me on that 9.8 Nyx 3 a couple months back.

[Real Elijah Snow]

My sig line is on Fiyah!

Elijah's sig line is heating up

[LarrysComics]

OMG ! larry is a huge retailer with connections (insider) bad communication but factual ! I was a small retailer as a hobby for years but was connected to the industry and very well networked. There are others that lurk here as well . there is INSIDER INFO in some of these statements. Unless some of the guys I have personal relationships have been BS-ing my constant questioning. Some of these rebuttals are not factual and totally reaching for arguments sake !

 

I'm middle of the pack.

Not a large account.

Not small...

 

I've been around a bit.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Any moderns heating up or is just the users..........?

 

 

Is someone heated...? I'm not. Enjoyed the discussion (which seems to be over for now.)

 

 

OMG ! larry is a huge retailer with connections (insider) bad communication but factual ! I was a small retailer as a hobby for years but was connected to the industry and very well networked. There are others that lurk here as well . there is INSIDER INFO in some of these statements. Unless some of the guys I have personal relationships have been BS-ing my constant questioning. Some of these rebuttals are not factual and totally reaching for arguments sake !

 

What you're saying makes perfect sense to anyone who's reading and doesn't have an axe to grind. Even boardies with independent backgrounds in publishing have come on and validated on more than one occasion exactly what you and Larry are saying.

 

But it will never stop until you either stop responding or agree with the preposterous conceit that no one has any business even estimating the print run of a ratio variant, ever. There's no changing his (and a couple others') opinion on the matter so there's no point in allowing yourself to come to aggravation over it.

 

-J.

 

PS: I owe you an edible arrangement for that deal you gave me on that 9.8 Nyx 3 a couple months back.

 

 

Larry and Paul are making opposing points, as Larry confirmed earlier. The only axe ground here is yours. As predicted, you have again used hyperbole to argue a "point" no one was disputing. No one said you couldn't estimate....but those estimations can't be based on fictitious reasoning.

 

[FrankWhite]

Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

I've been told similar.

By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.

 

But it falls under the CGC board logic category:

Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.

 

I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.

As have many retailers here.

 

 

 

+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !

 

OK now I'm going to keep it short, simple and to the point.

 

WHEN TALKING ABOUT "LIMITED" VARIANTS WITH LOW NUMBERS...

 

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 COPIES AND 675 COPIES.

 

I mean "Hello McFly"

 

275 surplus copies??? Ummmm. That's more than half the amount that is originaly being claimed.

 

Now I'm sure everyone is wondering why I'm going over such simple math.

 

Well it seems some do not understand simple math or it's implications on small print runs.

 

Wake up to reality. Stop claiming 400 when you know that's impossible.

 

It makes you an intentional lier.

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by FrankWhite