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Moderns that are heating up on ebay!
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Started by thirdgreenham,

63,751 posts in this topic

LarrysComics

LarrysComics

Posted
Posted (edited)
Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

 

 

I've been told similar.

By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.

 

But it falls under the CGC board logic category:

Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.

 

I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.

As have many retailers here.

 

 

 

+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !

 

OK now I'm going to keep it short, simple and to the point.

 

WHEN TALKING ABOUT "LIMITED" VARIANTS WITH LOW NUMBERS...

 

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 COPIES AND 675 COPIES.

 

I mean "Hello McFly"

 

275 surplus copies??? Ummmm. That's more than half the amount that is originaly being claimed.

 

Now I'm sure everyone is wondering why I'm going over such simple math.

 

Well it seems some do not understand simple math or it's implications on small print runs.

 

Wake up to reality. Stop claiming 400 when you know that's impossible.

 

It makes you an intentional lier.

 

Why put a print run number on it at all?

You don't know...

I don't know...

The customer doesn't know.

 

Cocgobbler #1 1:75 variant is sufficient

Edited by LarrysComics
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FrankWhite

FrankWhite

Posted
Posted
Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

 

 

I've been told similar.

By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.

 

But it falls under the CGC board logic category:

Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.

 

I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.

As have many retailers here.

 

 

 

+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !

 

OK now I'm going to keep it short, simple and to the point.

 

WHEN TALKING ABOUT "LIMITED" VARIANTS WITH LOW NUMBERS...

 

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 400 COPIES AND 675 COPIES.

 

I mean "Hello McFly"

 

275 surplus copies??? Ummmm. That's more than half the amount that is originaly being claimed.

 

Now I'm sure everyone is wondering why I'm going over such simple math.

 

Well it seems some do not understand simple math or it's implications on small print runs.

 

Wake up to reality. Stop claiming 400 when you know that's impossible.

 

It makes you an intentional lier.

 

Why put a print run number on it at all?

You don't know...

I don't know...

The customer doesn't know.

 

Cocgobbler #1 1:75 variant is sufficient

 

Cocgobbler?

 

1:75??

 

Is the the S.Platt cover???

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Zack1973

Zack1973

Posted
Posted
Because marvel selling of incentive surplus is part of my point. are you reading or just disagreeing on the blind?

 

 

Paul...if you're going to be dismissive, I'm going to bow out of discussing this with you.

 

Let's say I'm stupid, explain it to me as if I don't know anything: How is "Marvel selling of (sic) incentive surplus" part of your point?

 

 

I dont think your stupid and i am not trying to dismiss you !

 

Because by ordering the nearest case pack over the needed amount there probably is always a surplus on the variants... We have seen the sales and the store surplus deals. if marvel needed 400 copies for the diamond final order cutoff they would most likely order 3 cases.. 675 copies.. I have definitely been told things like this. This would leave a surplus of 275 copies if no other copies where needed for damage or whatever.

 

I've been told similar.

By sources at the publishing level & distribution level.

 

But it falls under the CGC board logic category:

Generic "I know things about stuff" boast.

 

I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants.

As have many retailers here.

 

 

 

+10000000 thanks LARRY ! you do know !

 

 

Larry's disputing your point.

 

"I've made obnoxious purchases on rare variants."

 

I'm assuming he means "more than just enough to account for simple overages."

 

hm

 

 

 

Yes.

I mean more than enough to account for overages.

 

Not really a dispute ! if 6000 variants are needed and they over run damage and run it as a percentage formula they could order an extra 5-10 cases... that could be significant.

 

Why the spoiler tags?

 

 

"And one time at bandcamp"

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GeeksAreMyPeeps

GeeksAreMyPeeps

Posted
Posted

Could someone who objects to using the reported sales for an issue as a basis for the *estimate* of the print run of an incentive explain to me what a publisher has to gain by intentionally printing far more than they need, if they're only going to blow them out cheaply later on? What's to gain there? If there was a trail of evidence suggesting that the publisher was selling those variants at a markup later on, then there would be logic to the idea that the print run far exceeds the estimate based on sales, but it makes no sense for them to print far more if they don't need them and are going to sit on them (and pay Diamond to store them), only to let them go for pennies later.

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MrWeen

MrWeen

Posted
Posted
Any moderns heating up or is just the users..........?

 

Superman lois and clark 8 heating up

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Superman-Lois-and-Clark-8-NM-Sold-Out-1st-appearance-of-new-Superboy-/262452995288?hash=item3d1b6ae4d8:g:Q3cAAOSwzchXRO8~

 

While people are buying this and that overpriced Lois and Clark Variant I'll be stockpiling the real first appearance of Jon Kent while it's still inexpensive.

 

Convergence-Superman-2015-002-000_zpsyhbkp4rh.jpg

 

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krighton

krighton

Posted
Posted (edited)
Any moderns heating up or is just the users..........?

 

Superman lois and clark 8 heating up

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Superman-Lois-and-Clark-8-NM-Sold-Out-1st-appearance-of-new-Superboy-/262452995288?hash=item3d1b6ae4d8:g:Q3cAAOSwzchXRO8~

 

While people are buying this and that overpriced Lois and Clark Variant I'll be stockpiling the real first appearance of Jon Kent while it's still inexpensive.

 

Convergence-Superman-2015-002-000_zpsyhbkp4rh.jpg

 

Dude no one cares about babies.... Or so I've been told and just because you're flying around in the cape and your father is superman doesn't make you Superboy until you actually are wearing the costume

Edited by krighton
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the authority

the authority

Posted
Posted
Could someone who objects to using the reported sales for an issue as a basis for the *estimate* of the print run of an incentive explain to me what a publisher has to gain by intentionally printing far more than they need, if they're only going to blow them out cheaply later on? What's to gain there? If there was a trail of evidence suggesting that the publisher was selling those variants at a markup later on, then there would be logic to the idea that the print run far exceeds the estimate based on sales, but it makes no sense for them to print far more if they don't need them and are going to sit on them (and pay Diamond to store them), only to let them go for pennies later.

 

Hypothetically, if someone were to over lets say a case, 200 books at $1000 to $2000 per could be tempting. Drop 10 a year into the market would add up to $10-20,000 per year, per book. It doesn't take long to see how a guy with 5 to 10 cases of books could be sitting very pretty for a very long time. As for the company itself ? I don't see it.

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
Could someone who objects to using the reported sales for an issue as a basis for the *estimate* of the print run of an incentive explain to me what a publisher has to gain by intentionally printing far more than they need, if they're only going to blow them out cheaply later on? What's to gain there? If there was a trail of evidence suggesting that the publisher was selling those variants at a markup later on, then there would be logic to the idea that the print run far exceeds the estimate based on sales, but it makes no sense for them to print far more if they don't need them and are going to sit on them (and pay Diamond to store them), only to let them go for pennies later.

 

 

Few things....

 

1. Who is saying they print "far more than they need"? That's the point: we don't know, but trying to estimate on an unrelated number is misleading at best. That's the reason why the numbers shouldn't be compared, above and beyond any other concerns.

 

For every X amount of copies of this regular book you order, you get/can purchase 1 copy of this incentive. That's the only concrete information we have about the incentive, and the publisher doesn't owe anybody anything beyond fulfilling those orders. That does not therefore mean that the two print runs are tied together by that distribution number. They're not. The publishers print what they want, and always have, for whatever reasons they have, whether it's precisely what they need down to the copy, or 10 times what they need to fulfill the incentive. We don't know.

 

Yes, the estimated sales of the regular version establishes an estimated BASELINE of possible incentive copies printed, true, but it's only a baseline. That is, "there were at least X copies printed." But the other side is open ended.

 

2. Who determines what Marvel "needs"? Doesn't Marvel determine what Marvel needs, for their own purposes?

 

3. Are you aware that Marvel warehoused around 3,000 Spiderman #1 Platinums for 15 years, until they were purchased by Todd McDevitt's New Dimension Comics around 2005? Why did Marvel print "far more than they needed", and then pay to store them for a decade and a half? Because they thought they needed them, and when they no longer thought that, they sold them.

 

And I guarantee you, McDevitt didn't pay anywhere near what they were worth on the market at the time.

 

4. Marvel prints millions of comic books every year. They aren't going to have much problem paying Diamond to store whatever amount they print above and beyond what they need.

 

5. It doesn't cost Marvel much more to print an extra X amount of copies than it does the regular book, since everything but the cover is the same. It costs Marvel about 50 cents a copy...and that's probably a high estimate for the big boys (vs. around $1.00/copy for 5-6k indy books.) So, if they are "blowing out" incentives for $1.25, $1.50, $2 each...they're not losing money. They're just selling books that they had about the same amount into as any other book, for about the same amount as they would get for any other book.

 

And you're right, they're not selling anything at a markup later on. Marvel doesn't care about that. They're not a back issue dealer. To Marvel and DC and others, however, these books are no different at all from every other book. It didn't cost them much more, if anything, to print them, it didn't cost them much more, if anything, to store them, and if they sell them for the same price they get for other books, they're not "selling them for pennies." You're thinking like a collector, or a dealer....not a publisher.

 

6. Nobody unintentionally prints much of anything. :D

 

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted
Could someone who objects to using the reported sales for an issue as a basis for the *estimate* of the print run of an incentive explain to me what a publisher has to gain by intentionally printing far more than they need, if they're only going to blow them out cheaply later on? What's to gain there? If there was a trail of evidence suggesting that the publisher was selling those variants at a markup later on, then there would be logic to the idea that the print run far exceeds the estimate based on sales, but it makes no sense for them to print far more if they don't need them and are going to sit on them (and pay Diamond to store them), only to let them go for pennies later.

 

Few things....

 

1. Who is saying they print "far more than they need"? That's the point: we don't know, but trying to estimate on an unrelated number is misleading at best.That's the reason why the numbers shouldn't be compared, above and beyond any other concerns.

 

For every X amount of copies of this regular book you order, you get/can purchase 1 copy of this incentive. That's the only concrete information we have about the incentive, and the publisher doesn't owe anybody anything beyond fulfilling those orders. That does not therefore mean that the two print runs are tied together by that distribution number. They're not. The publishers print what they want, and always have, for whatever reasons they have, whether it's precisely what they need down to the copy, or 10 times what they need to fulfill the incentive. We don't know.

 

Yes, the estimated sales of the regular version establishes an estimated BASELINE of possible incentive copies printed, true, but it's only a baseline. That is, "there were at least X copies printed." But the other side is open ended.

 

2. Who determines what Marvel "needs"? Doesn't Marvel determine what Marvel needs, for their own purposes?

 

3. Are you aware that Marvel warehoused around 3,000 Spiderman #1 Platinums for 15 years, until they were purchased by Todd McDevitt's New Dimension Comics around 2005? Why did Marvel print "far more than they needed", and then pay to store them for a decade and a half? Because they thought they needed them, and when they no longer thought that, they sold them.

 

And I guarantee you, McDevitt didn't pay anywhere near what they were worth on the market at the time.

 

4. Marvel prints millions of comic books every year. They aren't going to have much problem paying Diamond to store whatever amount they print above and beyond what they need.

 

5. It doesn't cost Marvel much more to print an extra X amount of copies than it does the regular book, since everything but the cover is the same. It costs Marvel about 50 cents a copy...and that's probably a high estimate for the big boys (vs. around $1.00/copy for 5-6k indy books.) So, if they are "blowing out" incentives for $1.25, $1.50, $2 each...they're not losing money. They're just selling books that they had about the same amount into as any other book, for about the same amount as they would get for any other book.

 

And you're right, they're not selling anything at a markup later on. Marvel doesn't care about that. They're not a back issue dealer. To Marvel and DC and others, however, these books are no different at all from every other book. It didn't cost them much more, if anything, to print them, it didn't cost them much more, if anything, to store them, and if they sell them for the same price they get for other books, they're not "selling them for pennies." You're thinking like a collector, or a dealer....not a publisher.

 

6. Nobody unintentionally prints much of anything. :D

 

No.

 

If anything, it is closer to a MAXIMUM CEILING of potential copies printed, since not every store will order enough quantities of a book to qualify for the incentive.

 

But in reality, once you factor back in printing overages for damages (placed at 10-15% tops by boardies knowledgeable of the printing industry) and courtesy copies, rounded up to the nearest case pack, it is VERY reasonable to use Comichron's N.A. distribution numbers to ESTIMATE a ratio variant's print run (which is all that I have seen anyone do on here, and they should be able to do so without being harassed, barked at or condescended to every single time).

 

-J.

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songsaboutclouds

songsaboutclouds

Posted
Posted
Could someone who objects to using the reported sales for an issue as a basis for the *estimate* of the print run of an incentive explain to me what a publisher has to gain by intentionally printing far more than they need, if they're only going to blow them out cheaply later on? What's to gain there? If there was a trail of evidence suggesting that the publisher was selling those variants at a markup later on, then there would be logic to the idea that the print run far exceeds the estimate based on sales, but it makes no sense for them to print far more if they don't need them and are going to sit on them (and pay Diamond to store them), only to let them go for pennies later.

 

No idea but on the last Diamond UK open day we were invited to look through their stock & note down any we wanted to order, we weren't allowed to pull copies as their staff would do this later for us to keep their stock levels correct.

We were after a copy of Wolverine Origins #2 for a customer but found they had none left.

However, they did have 2 full longboxes (600 copies) of Wolverine Origins #2 - 1:100 Canadian Flag Variant! We weren't allowed one.

They were blown out at 25 pence each about 5 months later & we managed to get 50 copies.

This is not a limited incident either, still happens quite a lot

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