Moderns that are heating up on ebay! 70 70

[fastballspecial]

The UF #4 variant immediately fell off my personal want list when ChuckGower posted this list earlier this year:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=9137981&fpart=3

 

Under "Ultimate Comics #4" in alphabetical order.

 

I guess they still had some left over even after that sales dump.

 

-J.

In all fairness, that list is from 2013 and there's no way of knowing how many copies were made available. It could be 100 or only 10 and at the time (even a year and a half ago) UF #4 bagged was going for $2 or less.

UF #4 1:25 will still be a major key down the road IMO and it sure looks like a good time to buy now and in the next couple of weeks

 

 

Just stop for a second and ask yourselves. Why is this a 1:25, or a 1:100, or a 1:5000???

Because this is supposed to be working on distribution quantities that are ordered by stores. These are RETAIL INCENTIVES

Weeks after distribution we get a market analysis from comichron which is usually reflected on sales on eBay and the likes.

No where does Marvel tell you that YEARS after said variant is distributed on a ratio basis will there be LEFTOVER STOCK up for grabs by the hundreds, maybe thousands. This is BS if I ever heard of it.

 

You've just summed up the danger of investing in variants quite succinctly.

 

This x 1000

 

Yes if I was a variant collector I would be really worried. I sold several UF4 variants when the book started smoking and I look at prices now and its really telling.

 

All that being said the price will rebound eventually maybe not as high, but it will come back. Ramos variant is the perfect example.

 

But none of the above doesn't mean its still not dirty.

 

Edited August 26, 2016 by Fastballspecial

[Broke as a Joke]

I will say that at least the ASM 4 and Fallout 4 variants have first appearance content that will sustain desirability. The books that have nothing going for them inside I would be wary of.

[carcrawfordfan]

I will say that at least the ASM 4 and Fallout 4 variants have first appearance content that will sustain desirability. The books that have nothing going for them inside I would be wary of.

 

[Jaydogrules]

I will say that at least the ASM 4 and Fallout 4 variants have first appearance content that will sustain desirability. The books that have nothing going for them inside I would be wary of.

 

Maybe. But you don't see "insides" through CGC slabs.

 

So for as long as slabbing books is a thing, rare variants with popular covers will dominate. What happened with ASM 4 and UF 4 is an exception, not the norm (and why I never bought either).

 

The fact that both of them ended up over ordered and blown out later, is again, not a surprise since those are indeed event "first appearance" books.

 

-J.

[Aweandlorder]

All that stuff is speculative at best.

Its the What If issue Marvel should really publish (maybe make it a "retail incentive" variant)

Would Ramos variants be the same price they are currently w/o the added surplus? Maybe. Maybe not

Is Ramos variant a key sustainable book? maybe. Maybe not

Did the news surrounding Ramos variants found in 5 below packs nationwide cause speculators to keep away from further investing in said book? Probably, or maybe not

 

That doesnt change the fact that the rules have been broken. Added inventory fell DIRECTLY to flippers hands time and time again with the help of information revealed online. Which in return, helped oversaturate the market. Facts

Im happy that this was discovered.

Im happy that tens of thousands of speculative dollars with thousands invested by speculators lost on their investment.

No seriously. Soooooo happy

 

 

Just hope the next thousand comes crashing isnt the one in your box/safe

 

 

[Jaydogrules]

All that stuff is speculative at best.

Its the What If issue Marvel should really publish (maybe make it a "retail incentive" variant)

Would Ramos variants be the same price they are currently w/o the added surplus? Maybe. Maybe not

Is Ramos variant a key sustainable book? maybe. Maybe not

Did the news surrounding Ramos variants found in 5 below packs nationwide cause speculators to keep away from further investing in said book? Probably, or maybe not

 

That doesnt change the fact that the rules have been broken. Added inventory fell DIRECTLY to flippers hands time and time again with the help of information revealed online. Which in return, helped oversaturate the market. Facts

Im happy that this was discovered.

Im happy that tens of thousands of speculative dollars with thousands invested by speculators lost on their investment.

No seriously. Soooooo happy

 

 

Just hope the next thousand comes crashing isnt the one in your box/safe

 

 

This is the kind of Chicken Little extrapolation I don't understand.

 

Yes, the UF 4 and ASM 4 have shown up in five below packs.

 

Does that therefore mean that all variants can (or will) show up in 5 below packs ?

 

Of course not.

 

It just means that these two did.

 

No one has ever claimed that variants are printed to order. There will be over supply some times on certain books. No one has ever claimed that Marvel pulps these overages. Maybe they some times do ? Who knows.

 

Just looking at the list that I re-linked shows you what kind of variants are the ones that are usually blown out and/or end up in 5 below packs. 95% of it is drek that received little retailer interest. Most of it was not incentive based. Some were over printed "event books" or something commemorating something.

 

And very, very few variants from Marvel's core titles. Just one ASM. A couple FF's and I don't think any from the main X-Men title at the time. You can count them all on one hand.

 

So is the sky falling ? Maybe on UF 4. But in general ?

 

Not even a little.

 

-J.

[fastballspecial]

All that stuff is speculative at best.

Its the What If issue Marvel should really publish (maybe make it a "retail incentive" variant)

Would Ramos variants be the same price they are currently w/o the added surplus? Maybe. Maybe not

Is Ramos variant a key sustainable book? maybe. Maybe not

Did the news surrounding Ramos variants found in 5 below packs nationwide cause speculators to keep away from further investing in said book? Probably, or maybe not

 

That doesnt change the fact that the rules have been broken. Added inventory fell DIRECTLY to flippers hands time and time again with the help of information revealed online. Which in return, helped oversaturate the market. Facts

Im happy that this was discovered.

Im happy that tens of thousands of speculative dollars with thousands invested by speculators lost on their investment.

No seriously. Soooooo happy

 

 

Just hope the next thousand comes crashing isnt the one in your box/safe

 

 

This is the kind of Chicken Little extrapolation I don't understand.

 

Yes, the UF 4 and ASM 4 have shown up in five below packs.

 

Does that therefore mean that all variants can (or will) show up in 5 below packs ?

 

Of course not.

 

It just means that these two did.

 

No one has ever claimed that variants are printed to order. There will be over supply some times on certain books. No one has ever claimed that Marvel pulps these overages. Maybe they some times do ? Who knows.

 

Just looking at the list that I re-linked shows you what kind of variants are the ones that are usually blown out and/or end up in 5 below packs. 95% of it is drek that received little retailer interest. Most of it was not incentive based. Some were over printed "event books" or something commemorating something.

 

And very, very few variants from Marvel's core titles. Just one ASM. A couple FF's and I don't think any from the main X-Men title at the time. You can count them all on one hand.

 

So is the sky falling ? Maybe on UF 4. But in general ?

 

Not even a little.

 

-J.

 

Is your opinion unbiased?

 

Its an honest question.

 

[Jaydogrules]

All that stuff is speculative at best.

Its the What If issue Marvel should really publish (maybe make it a "retail incentive" variant)

Would Ramos variants be the same price they are currently w/o the added surplus? Maybe. Maybe not

Is Ramos variant a key sustainable book? maybe. Maybe not

Did the news surrounding Ramos variants found in 5 below packs nationwide cause speculators to keep away from further investing in said book? Probably, or maybe not

 

That doesnt change the fact that the rules have been broken. Added inventory fell DIRECTLY to flippers hands time and time again with the help of information revealed online. Which in return, helped oversaturate the market. Facts

Im happy that this was discovered.

Im happy that tens of thousands of speculative dollars with thousands invested by speculators lost on their investment.

No seriously. Soooooo happy

 

 

Just hope the next thousand comes crashing isnt the one in your box/safe

 

 

This is the kind of Chicken Little extrapolation I don't understand.

 

Yes, the UF 4 and ASM 4 have shown up in five below packs.

 

Does that therefore mean that all variants can (or will) show up in 5 below packs ?

 

Of course not.

 

It just means that these two did.

 

No one has ever claimed that variants are printed to order. There will be over supply some times on certain books. No one has ever claimed that Marvel pulps these overages. Maybe they some times do ? Who knows.

 

Just looking at the list that I re-linked shows you what kind of variants are the ones that are usually blown out and/or end up in 5 below packs. 95% of it is drek that received little retailer interest. Most of it was not incentive based. Some were over printed "event books" or something commemorating something.

 

And very, very few variants from Marvel's core titles. Just one ASM. A couple FF's and I don't think any from the main X-Men title at the time. You can count them all on one hand.

 

So is the sky falling ? Maybe on UF 4. But in general ?

 

Not even a little.

 

-J.

 

Is your opinion unbiased?

 

Its an honest question.

 

Of course it's biased But it's based on facts and what I've observed on the market and information gathered from numerous retailers over the years.

 

-J.

[IntoAnother]

I will say that at least the ASM 4 and Fallout 4 variants have first appearance content that will sustain desirability. The books that have nothing going for them inside I would be wary of.

 

Maybe. But you don't see "insides" through CGC slabs.

 

So for as long as slabbing books is a thing, rare variants with popular covers will dominate. What happened with ASM 4 and UF 4 is an exception, not the norm (and why I never bought either).

 

The fact that both of them ended up over ordered and blown out later, is again, not a surprise since those are indeed event "first appearance" books.

 

-J.

 

So you chose to not buy first appearance books of characters within the ASM family that you state you care for so deeply because you had a feeling they had a large print run for a 1:25?

 

Why do you buy the comics in your signature line?

 

Once upon a time I thought it was out of love for those characters, now it doesn't appear to be the case. Everyone has a right to collect what they want and why, I'm just trying to make sense of what you buy and why. If it's solely because you see them as an investment then you should just say that and stop playing games that cater to your arguments. Yet it does appear you buy them as invenstments as you are very quick to report the sales that trend upward and sheepishly make some excuse about a sale that's trending downward that conveniently someone else other than yourself brings up.

 

So much passion is lost when collections are made solely as an investment in my opinion. Not to mention it's absolutely mad when some of those books you continue to argue are wise invenstments like the 1:blah blah JSC or the 1:blah blah Dell'Otto when the guts inside them are borderline meaningless to many of the storylines. To see them as continuing to dominate the market is as absurd as can be and horrible advice to be passing out to those that are less informed.

 

Heck, even several members of your beloved variant threads have come and gone. Perhaps they knew it was better to cash out now while the books they were holding were being hyped, rather than gamble on the future. It is without a doubt a sellers market, especially on books you continue to hype with threads devoted to them. When it's no longer a sellers market these gutless variants you rave about are destined to be among the first to fall to an extreme price correction.

 

[Aweandlorder]

Nothing here is "opinionated". These are all facts.

None of what you wrote is what u assume.

It's all overly analyzed interpreted jargon which is based on nothing.

A 1:x ratio retailer incentive variant should not be redistributed by its original distributor for further market exploitation. Period

[Aweandlorder]

Just to be clear the above reply was directed at jay's comment. Got lazy and typed it on my phone soz

[jsilverjanet]

Nothing here is "opinionated". These are all facts.

None of what you wrote is what u assume.

It's all overly analyzed interpreted jargon which is based on nothing.

A 1:x ratio retailer incentive variant should not be redistributed by its original distributor for further market exploitation. Period

 

I thought several people had clarified this information a long time ago. There's a reason they are 1:xx vs 1/xx

 

the only limited variants are the ones that are limited to a specific print run.

[Aweandlorder]

Nothing here is "opinionated". These are all facts.

None of what you wrote is what u assume.

It's all overly analyzed interpreted jargon which is based on nothing.

A 1:x ratio retailer incentive variant should not be redistributed by its original distributor for further market exploitation. Period

 

I thought several people had clarified this information a long time ago. There's a reason they are 1:xx vs 1/xx

 

the only limited variants are the ones that are limited to a specific print run.

 

Yes

but were talking about re-distribution of overages now.

Thats past the initial distribution point

[Aweandlorder]

Every trend in this hobby since it first showed signs of collectible attributions is with the collector's pocket in mind. From the packaging of books through print limits to variant covers, through grading companies, different slab series, census, and yes, ratio retailer incentives. DONT PRETEND LIKE YOU DONT KNOW THIS. Were all in this together because we love the hobby and we understand its worth to our personal collection as well as others.

There are things that make or break a book's value

The retailer incentive variant program is one of them.

By introducing access inventory to the market PAST INITIAL DISTRIBUTION POINT contradicts that program's validity and causes it to be flawed

[Jaydogrules]

I will say that at least the ASM 4 and Fallout 4 variants have first appearance content that will sustain desirability. The books that have nothing going for them inside I would be wary of.

 

Maybe. But you don't see "insides" through CGC slabs.

 

So for as long as slabbing books is a thing, rare variants with popular covers will dominate. What happened with ASM 4 and UF 4 is an exception, not the norm (and why I never bought either).

 

The fact that both of them ended up over ordered and blown out later, is again, not a surprise since those are indeed event "first appearance" books.

 

-J.

 

So you chose to not buy first appearance books of characters within the ASM family that you state you care for so deeply because you had a feeling they had a large print run for a 1:25?

 

Why do you buy the comics in your signature line?

 

Once upon a time I thought it was out of love for those characters, now it doesn't appear to be the case. Everyone has a right to collect what they want and why, I'm just trying to make sense of what you buy and why. If it's solely because you see them as an investment then you should just say that and stop playing games that cater to your arguments. Yet it does appear you buy them as invenstments as you are very quick to report the sales that trend upward and sheepishly make some excuse about a sale that's trending downward that conveniently someone else other than yourself brings up.

 

So much passion is lost when collections are made solely as an investment in my opinion. Not to mention it's absolutely mad when some of those books you continue to argue are wise invenstments like the 1:blah blah JSC or the 1:blah blah Dell'Otto when the guts inside them are borderline meaningless to many of the storylines. To see them as continuing to dominate the market is as absurd as can be and horrible advice to be passing out to those that are less informed.

 

Heck, even several members of your beloved variant threads have come and gone. Perhaps they knew it was better to cash out now while the books they were holding were being hyped, rather than gamble on the future. It is without a doubt a sellers market, especially on books you continue to hype with threads devoted to them. When it's no longer a sellers market these gutless variants you rave about are destined to be among the first to fall to an extreme price correction.

 

Uh....like everyone else I buy what I like. There are non-variant versions of the first appearances in UF 4 and ASM 4. Not that I necessarily even bought those or would buy anything just because it's in the ASM family.

 

And please show me where I ever touted any comic book as a good "investment" (even if they can be if you know how and what to buy and when), which would be an odd thing for me to do since I've never sold a comic book in my life.

 

But I'll be more than happy to explain in detail my strategies for picking winners when it comes to ultra rare high cost variants in a PM if you're interested.

 

-J.

[thecollector881]

i'm interested, seems to be working

[Old Fashion PB and J]

If a first appearance has two covers, I buy the one I like. But in all honesty to hear someone who collects marvel SA and BA keys talk about print runs being ANY factor in a book... That's absurd and hypocritical. Fantastic four 48 and Hulk 181 have a print run of like 1 billion

[mysterio]

If a first appearance has two covers, I buy the one I like. But in all honesty to hear someone who collects marvel SA and BA keys talk about print runs being ANY factor in a book... That's absurd and hypocritical. Fantastic four 48 and Hulk 181 have a print run of like 1 billion

 

For these variants print runs matter because they create the bulk of the demand. For Hulk #181 the demand is over what is on the inside. It's a big difference. When only the cover matters demand hangs by a very thin thread.

[Lonzilla]

I have been hitting 3 of the 5 and Below's in south Jersey (Deptford,Blackwood and Turnersville) damn near daily for the past week, I'm working on a small paver walkway + 3 landing step installation job in Turnersville and these 3 spots are all on my way home from my jobsite....

 

...

 

 

and thus far have snagged a total of 5 copies of UF #4 1:25.

 

...which is cool, but that represents 6 trips to each shop and actually, it kinda sucks balls as the copies I have found all have color breaking spine ticks.All of them all are 8.0 to 9.0's.

 

None of the 5 copies I have bought will press out better than a 9.2.....maybe 1 will catch a 9.4.

 

I'm still going to each shop every day, though

 

 

 

 

 

I've been hitting up all of the Philly ones and found zip

I saw a pack that had a Superior Spider-Man Hastings Labbit on the top, first one I've ever seen with a store exclusive variant

Edited August 27, 2016 by Lonzilla

[Old Fashion PB and J]

If a first appearance has two covers, I buy the one I like. But in all honesty to hear someone who collects marvel SA and BA keys talk about print runs being ANY factor in a book... That's absurd and hypocritical. Fantastic four 48 and Hulk 181 have a print run of like 1 billion

 

For these variants print runs matter because they create the bulk of the demand. For Hulk #181 the demand is over what is on the inside. It's a big difference. When only the cover matters demand hangs by a very thin thread.

Again, I just buy a book because I like it.